Speculation: Thinking The Unthinkable - What Would Another Rebuild Look Like?

[Benedict Kovalchuk]

The team is flawed, but I think another rebuild is a pretty extreme step. Its not like the team is barren of both talent and prospects, we have both they are just being extremely poorly utilized. Furthermore, if Tavares goes(which he would in this scenario) I have a very tough time seeing this team improve past its current state, or last years state, barring a miracle.

Either way, if a rebuild was the decided upon course of action...

1.) Absolutely NO WAY should Snow/Cappy be around for it after bungling the last one.
2.) If it isn't pretty quick it could doom the franchise.

Man you have a lot of free time.

I'm dangerously close to jumping teams. I used to enjoy hockey.

I loathe to say it, but so am I. I want to love this team but they keep forcing reasons not to into my hands. I don't want to give up on the Isles after all I've put up with and stuck around for, but my god am I ever beside myself in frustration right now. Nevermind the fact that we are probably looking at nearly another entire year before this team plays meaningful hockey

 

[Sparksrus3]

Josh Bailey.

That's for sure .
Nowhere else would he be a first line wing living the dream .

 

[PK Cronin]

How do you embed Tweets?

https://twitter.com/DebacIsle/status/803357234499612673

Take the numbers at the end of the url after the status/ and put it between the twitter brackets

 

[Poliz24]

Obviously harder said then done but, move on from Garth and Cappy. Garth did his job of restocking the prospect pool. Cappy got 2 100 point seasons and 3 playoff appearances. He did what he could. Move on find leaders who can lead grown men not kids. That is what we need.

P.S. I think all of the professional player development team needs to go. Hopefully that would come with a new GM. But seeing strome, lee and nelson mutter in inconsistency is not a good sight and shows development of players is lacking in the organization.

 

[A Pointed Stick]

There is no reason to blow it up, and it wouldn't work anyway if you keep the same chefs cooking the food.

How about we calm down, take a second to reflect, count to ten if it helps, and change the coach, then GM and see what happens. How about that?

 

[leeroggy]

There is no reason to blow it up, and it wouldn't work anyway if you keep the same chefs cooking the food.

How about we calm down, take a second to reflect, count to ten if it helps, and change the coach, then GM and see what happens. How about that?

Bringing in a new GM and Coaching Staff . . . and might that new GM decide to go with his own blueprint . . .


This is assumed to already have happened

 

[A Pointed Stick]

Bringing in a new GM and Coaching Staff . . . and might that new GM decide to go with his own blueprint . . .


This is assumed to already have happened

Then we make moves. That's cool. Sorry for missing that ingredient.

 

[IslesNorway]

The Isles have enough talent not to go into another full rebuild, but they need a coach who can get the most out of the talent they have, not ruin them.

 

[Bood12]

With all do respect to the OP, how is this thread even something we are allowing to continue ? There will be no rebuild...there is zero reason for it. JT, Hamonic, De Haan, Nelson, Cizikas, move Strome for pieces, Leddy, MDC, JHS,Beauvillier,Barzal, Bellows, Toews,Pelech, Sorokin. Team just needs a re tool. If next GM moves JT he is a ****ing moron...worse then snow and my 20+ years of loyalty to this team is done. Mods please just lock this...this place is getting out of control...we don't need a what if thread. Save this at the very least for when/if we get a new GM. Right now this is just another fire starter.

what next GM? Is Snow getting fired in the next year? if JT is still un-signed by February of next year, you think they should just hold on to him instead of getting an asset for him? If he is not re-signed by the beginning of next year I am pretty sure he is going to walk after next year

 

[Brunomics]

The Isles have enough talent not to go into another full rebuild, but they need a coach who can get the most out of the talent they have, not ruin them.

This. Not one prospect that was drafted under Snow has realized their full potential sans Matt Martin.

Let that sink in.

 

[TheWhiteWhale30]

what next GM? Is Snow getting fired in the next year? if JT is still un-signed by February of next year, you think they should just hold on to him instead of getting an asset for him? If he is not re-signed by the beginning of next year I am pretty sure he is going to walk after next year

First off, JT has said countless times he will sign... Im not even discussing moving him until he says otherwise. Also, you've been here what a whole month and your going to talk down to me ? lol You wont make many friends here or ever have what you say taken seriously... Thats just a little advice for a new poster.

 

[airbus220]

JT has said countless times he will sign

Talk is cheap ...

do you remember when Ledecky said that fans should relax, everything will get better.

Same cheap as Capuano says they only have bad luck.

Same cheap as Snow sleeping in his office doing nothing.

Only what people really do counts.

Obviously many things changed since JT said that some time ago. He might have hoped for owners to change something, same as many others, same as McPhee waited till July 13th. JT would be a fool to sign with these idiots. JT and others gave the team a big discount and Snow wasted it.
I'm happy Frans Nielsen found a real team. Enough is Enough.

 

[LeapOnOver]

This. Not one prospect that was drafted under Snow has realized their full potential sans Matt Martin.

Let that sink in.

Snow didn't draft Hamonic or de Haan? Hamonic definitely overshot his ceiling (unless you are one of those fickle what have you done for me lately folks) and de Haan's reached his potential.

I'll still never understand the folks who think the players are just mindless robots that need a coaches programming to perform. It's on those million dollar mutton heads, not the coach.

 

[Strummergas]

Snow didn't draft Hamonic or de Haan? Hamonic definitely overshot his ceiling (unless you are one of those fickle what have you done for me lately folks) and de Haan's reached his potential.

I'll still never understand the folks who think the players are just mindless robots that need a coaches programming to perform. It's on those million dollar mutton heads, not the coach.

If it's not on the coach, then why do coaches get fired? More so, why do some teams suddenly improve after a coaching change?

The reality is that it's a bit of both. However, when you have a core of mostly young players who have only had one NHL coach and they seem to stagnate or even regress during their short time in the pros, then maybe, just maybe it's the coach.

 

[leeroggy]

The Isles have enough talent not to go into another full rebuild, but they need a coach who can get the most out of the talent they have, not ruin them.

If it's not on the coach, then why do coaches get fired? More so, why do some teams suddenly improve after a coaching change?

The reality is that it's a bit of both. However, when you have a core of mostly young players who have only had one NHL coach and they seem to stagnate or even regress during their short time in the pros, then maybe, just maybe it's the coach.

We already have a Flintstone Complaint Thread, can we please stick to the idea of what a Rebuild would look like?

 

[Strummergas]

We already have a Flintstone Complaint Thread, can we please stick to the idea of what a Rebuild would look like?

I can save you the effort. It would look like ****.

 

[A Pointed Stick]

Snow didn't draft Hamonic or de Haan? Hamonic definitely overshot his ceiling (unless you are one of those fickle what have you done for me lately folks) and de Haan's reached his potential.

I'll still never understand the folks who think the players are just mindless robots that need a coaches programming to perform. It's on those million dollar mutton heads, not the coach.

See Pittsburgh last year. Capuano is not the only problem, but he is a good portion of it. Change the coach, then evaluate, then change players as necessary.

 

[leeroggy]

See Pittsburgh last year. Capuano is not the only problem, but he is a good portion of it. Change the coach, then evaluate, then change players as necessary.

Bringing in a new GM and Coaching Staff . . . and might that new GM decide to go with his own blueprint . . .

This is assumed to already have happened

Please stick to the theme of the thread . . . there already is a Flintstone Complaint thread

 

[luki here]

First off, JT has said countless times he will sign... Im not even discussing moving him until he says otherwise. Also, you've been here what a whole month and your going to talk down to me ? lol You wont make many friends here or ever have what you say taken seriously... Thats just a little advice for a new poster.

I think you may be taking yourself a bit too seriously. The "Allowing the thread to continue" phrase you said before was the pinnacle. If you don't like the thread you don't have to partake.

 

[Konk]

A full rebuild isn't really necessary, more like a major retooling. If they can end up with the top pick and grab Nolan Patrick, that would be a very big piece to go towards a retooling effort. The other big piece they should look at this off season is Artemi Panarin. If they can put together the #1 in 2018 along with one or two prospects/players for Panarin those two additions to the roster and maybe a new goalie (Bishop?) they can get back into the playoffs next year. Nothing short of that level of retooling will do, IMO. The JVR level talents aren't enough, they need to add legit top line level players who can manufacture offense not just complimentary players.

 

[1calledsteve]

Well here goes what I think should happen for the Isles going forward, not a full rebuild, but organizing of assets.

First and for most a coaching staff and management change would be needed. Take out how you personally feel about Snow and Capuano, but if you really want to change the status quo, they are the first to go.

Second, admit to yourself and the fan base that the season is a loss competitive wise, but that next year is the goal. I have always been under the firm belief fans of teams only care about two things. Winning and entertainment. If you're going to be bad, be entertaining and fun doing it. Lose games 6-4, not 3-0.

Three, move out salary to give roster flexibility and value the players who have contributed in their roles. Mind you do this at the deadline and after the season when it will be easier to move players and you can see at least a half year of evaluation of the current players under new coaching and management.

Four, Sell off the most short term usable assets. Players like Kulemin, Hickey, Bailey, Clutterbuck etc. who will be of use by contenders of teams who need a stop gap or to fill a specific roll. The players will likely only net draft picks in the 2nd and 3rd rounds but they can be useful the following year (Think Leddy, Boychuk, Halak type deals)

Five, make 2 big trades (Keeping Tavares). 1 to improve the scoring up front and one to add a playmaker on the defense. However you want to accomplish this up to your personal belief. However I would be willing to package Dal Colle, Strome, Lee, Hamonic, 2018 First, Bailey and any 2nd-7th rounders in any combination required to land a Top 4 play maker and a top 6 scorer. (Think Players like Duchene, Skinner, RNH, Tyler Johnson, Toffoli etc; Fowler, Trouba, Faulk, Shattenkirk, etc.) Not saying these guys are created equal or even available, but it would be a culture change.

Six, Let the young kids play. The only elder statesmen should be Boychuk and Ladd (if they won't waive NMC and no one wants them). Draft an NHL ready or near NHL ready prospect with the top 5 pick from this year.

So in my scenario, this is how next year shakes up assuming the following:

Kulemin traded for something, even if retained.
Grabovski LTIR
Bailey moved for something
Clutterbuck resigned
Hamonic, Dal Colle, Strome, Lee in some capacity moved (with additional picks and pieces) for 1 of RNH/Skinner/Duchene and 1 of Trouba/Shattenkirk


Duchene/RNH/Skinner - Tavares - Ho-Sang
Nelson - Barzal - Clutterbuck
Ladd - Beauvillier - 2017 1st Rounder
Quine/UFA - Cizikas - (UFA)/Prince

Leddy - Trouba/Shattenkirk
De Haan - Pulock
Hickey/Pelech - Boychuk


I don't know if this would be a good team, but it sure as hell would be a fast and entertaining team. And that is something you can sell the fan base on as well as build going forward.

Ladd and Boychuk deals hurt the most given the NMC's, and if one could be moved out it would help immensely.

Again my two cents

 

[Doshell Propivo]

Well here goes what I think should happen for the Isles going forward, not a full rebuild, but organizing of assets.

First and for most a coaching staff and management change would be needed. Take out how you personally feel about Snow and Capuano, but if you really want to change the status quo, they are the first to go.

Second, admit to yourself and the fan base that the season is a loss competitive wise, but that next year is the goal. I have always been under the firm belief fans of teams only care about two things. Winning and entertainment. If you're going to be bad, be entertaining and fun doing it. Lose games 6-4, not 3-0.

Three, move out salary to give roster flexibility and value the players who have contributed in their roles. Mind you do this at the deadline and after the season when it will be easier to move players and you can see at least a half year of evaluation of the current players under new coaching and management.

Four, Sell off the most short term usable assets. Players like Kulemin, Hickey, Bailey, Clutterbuck etc. who will be of use by contenders of teams who need a stop gap or to fill a specific roll. The players will likely only net draft picks in the 2nd and 3rd rounds but they can be useful the following year (Think Leddy, Boychuk, Halak type deals)

Five, make 2 big trades (Keeping Tavares). 1 to improve the scoring up front and one to add a playmaker on the defense. However you want to accomplish this up to your personal belief. However I would be willing to package Dal Colle, Strome, Lee, Hamonic, 2018 First, Bailey and any 2nd-7th rounders in any combination required to land a Top 4 play maker and a top 6 scorer. (Think Players like Duchene, Skinner, RNH, Tyler Johnson, Toffoli etc; Fowler, Trouba, Faulk, Shattenkirk, etc.) Not saying these guys are created equal or even available, but it would be a culture change.

Six, Let the young kids play. The only elder statesmen should be Boychuk and Ladd (if they won't waive NMC and no one wants them). Draft an NHL ready or near NHL ready prospect with the top 5 pick from this year.

So in my scenario, this is how next year shakes up assuming the following:

Kulemin traded for something, even if retained.
Grabovski LTIR
Bailey moved for something
Clutterbuck resigned
Hamonic, Dal Colle, Strome, Lee in some capacity moved (with additional picks and pieces) for 1 of RNH/Skinner/Duchene and 1 of Trouba/Shattenkirk


Duchene/RNH/Skinner - Tavares - Ho-Sang
Nelson - Barzal - Clutterbuck
Ladd - Beauvillier - 2017 1st Rounder
Quine/UFA - Cizikas - (UFA)/Prince

Leddy - Trouba/Shattenkirk
De Haan - Pulock
Hickey/Pelech - Boychuk


I don't know if this would be a good team, but it sure as hell would be a fast and entertaining team. And that is something you can sell the fan base on as well as build going forward.

Ladd and Boychuk deals hurt the most given the NMC's, and if one could be moved out it would help immensely.

Again my two cents

I'd be fine with something along those lines. As long as the goal is to get back in the playoffs next year. And not tank for multiple seasons accumulating draft picks. That I would not support.

 

[leeroggy]

Well here goes what I think should happen for the Isles going forward, not a full rebuild, but organizing of assets.

First and for most a coaching staff and management change would be needed. Take out how you personally feel about Snow and Capuano, but if you really want to change the status quo, they are the first to go.

Second, admit to yourself and the fan base that the season is a loss competitive wise, but that next year is the goal. I have always been under the firm belief fans of teams only care about two things. Winning and entertainment. If you're going to be bad, be entertaining and fun doing it. Lose games 6-4, not 3-0.

Three, move out salary to give roster flexibility and value the players who have contributed in their roles. Mind you do this at the deadline and after the season when it will be easier to move players and you can see at least a half year of evaluation of the current players under new coaching and management.

Four, Sell off the most short term usable assets. Players like Kulemin, Hickey, Bailey, Clutterbuck etc. who will be of use by contenders of teams who need a stop gap or to fill a specific roll. The players will likely only net draft picks in the 2nd and 3rd rounds but they can be useful the following year (Think Leddy, Boychuk, Halak type deals)

Five, make 2 big trades (Keeping Tavares). 1 to improve the scoring up front and one to add a playmaker on the defense. However you want to accomplish this up to your personal belief. However I would be willing to package Dal Colle, Strome, Lee, Hamonic, 2018 First, Bailey and any 2nd-7th rounders in any combination required to land a Top 4 play maker and a top 6 scorer. (Think Players like Duchene, Skinner, RNH, Tyler Johnson, Toffoli etc; Fowler, Trouba, Faulk, Shattenkirk, etc.) Not saying these guys are created equal or even available, but it would be a culture change.

Six, Let the young kids play. The only elder statesmen should be Boychuk and Ladd (if they won't waive NMC and no one wants them). Draft an NHL ready or near NHL ready prospect with the top 5 pick from this year.

So in my scenario, this is how next year shakes up assuming the following:

Kulemin traded for something, even if retained.
Grabovski LTIR
Bailey moved for something
Clutterbuck resigned
Hamonic, Dal Colle, Strome, Lee in some capacity moved (with additional picks and pieces) for 1 of RNH/Skinner/Duchene and 1 of Trouba/Shattenkirk


Duchene/RNH/Skinner - Tavares - Ho-Sang
Nelson - Barzal - Clutterbuck
Ladd - Beauvillier - 2017 1st Rounder
Quine/UFA - Cizikas - (UFA)/Prince

Leddy - Trouba/Shattenkirk
De Haan - Pulock
Hickey/Pelech - Boychuk


I don't know if this would be a good team, but it sure as hell would be a fast and entertaining team. And that is something you can sell the fan base on as well as build going forward.

Ladd and Boychuk deals hurt the most given the NMC's, and if one could be moved out it would help immensely.

Again my two cents

Did you account for losing someone to the Expansion Draft?

Might affect who the trade pieces are.

 

[1calledsteve]

Did you account for losing someone to the Expansion Draft?

Might affect who the trade pieces are.

Not necessarily, however if the trades are completed prior to the expansion the odds of losing someone of value is low. Likely at that point its moot.

 

[Doshell Propivo]

Not necessarily, however if the trades are completed prior to the expansion the odds of losing someone of value is low. Likely at that point its moot.

An upcoming expansion draft will effect the trade market.