Value of: The value of Max Pacioretty to contending teams only

[72hockey guy]

cute.

explain whats cute about it. I see it as being very pragmatic...true its sports, but its still a business. it still needs to be run on sound business practices

 

[Janne Niinimaa]

around What Hamonic got a 1st and 2 seconds maybe a bit less

but this 2 firsts and a top prospect asks are ridiculous

2 1st's, a top prospect and more is too much I agree.

A 1st and 2 2nd's is good. It's about the same value as I would expect which is a 1st, young roster player and a good prospect as a base.

2018 1st, 2018 2nd/3rd, Ryan Strome, Ethan Bear/Caleb Jones
2018 1st, 2018 2nd/3rd, Marcus Sorensen, Josh Norris

Trades along those lines is what I would expect.

 

[ECWHSWI]

explain whats cute about it. I see it as being very pragmatic...true its sports, but its still a business. it still needs to be run on sound business practices

reality : the guys making trades are not career business men, they're sport people. Geoff Molson is not the one who will trade Max Pacioretty, Marc Bergevin is. The guy trading for him is not a savy business man who made billions with his various businesses, but a sports guy.

Among them, there's guys who think they know a lot better while showing they clearly dont. (like you've been doing in pretty much every post in this thread).

but hey! learning from past mistakes is done on a daily basis I guess...



cute.

 

[72hockey guy]

2 1st's, a top prospect and more is too much I agree.

A 1st and 2 2nd's is good. It's about the same value as I would expect which is a 1st, young roster player and a good prospect as a base.

2018 1st, 2018 2nd/3rd, Ryan Strome, Ethan Bear/Caleb Jones
2018 1st, 2018 2nd/3rd, Marcus Sorensen, Josh Norris

Trades along those lines is what I would expect.

those are still a bit steep remember strome was just traded for Eberle, Norris was a recent first rounder, so its still basically 2 1sts

 

[72hockey guy]

reality : the guys making trades are not career business men, they're sport people. Geoff Molson is not the one who will trade Max Pacioretty, Marc Bergevin is. The guy trading for him is not a savy business man who made billions with his various businesses, but a sports guy.

Among them, there's guys who think they know a lot better while showing they clearly dont. (like you've been doing in pretty much every post in this thread).

but hey! learning from past mistakes is done on a daily basis I guess...



cute.

wake me when you get 2 firsts and a Top Prospect ++ then

i think youll be waiting a long time

 

[ECWHSWI]

wake me when you get 2 firsts and a Top Prospect ++ then

i think youll be waiting a long time

you can keep sleeping, I'm not Marc Bergevin so I am not getting whatever YOU are mentionning (not me, see).

 

[Kraken Jokes]

around What Hamonic got a 1st and 2 seconds maybe a bit less

Is that far off from what I've been asking?

 

[Viqsi]

and Duchene is a center, and is younger so he isnt a valid comparable to an older Winger. and if there is one team in the NHL WHO SHOULD RECOGNIZE HOW IMPORTANT CENTERS ARE ITS THE HABS, basically because you dont have any worth a damn

Quoted and emphasized for truth, because the irony here is so damned thick you couldn't cut it with a chainsaw.


And while I'm here, here's a quick tip for Habs fans, since some of y'all continue to comically fail to get the point. Here is what it will take for you to get a top-6 center (read: PLD or Wennberg) from Columbus: An identical top-6 center. Because we can't afford to lose any - we'd be just as desperate as you guys are. Stop, stop, stop, STOP, for the love of G-d Almighty and as an appeal to the spirit of the holidays ****ing STOP trying to acquire them. Especially if MaxPac is involved, because we don't need him or want him.

Seriously, y'all are getting almost as bad as the Hemsky-for-Johansen Oil fans back in the day.

 

[Janne Niinimaa]

those are still a bit steep remember strome was just traded for Eberle, Norris was a recent first rounder, so its still basically 2 1sts

Yeah I personally wouldn't trade more than a late 2nd for Strome. That trade was more about giving Eberle a change of scenery and clearing that salary while taking the risk on Strome's potential at a cheaper salary. I think it's fair to say that gamble didn't pay off.

Value wise:

2018 1st = late 1st
Strome/Sorensen = late 2nd/early 3rd
2018 2nd/3rd = late 2nd/early 3rd
Norris/Bear/Jones = late 1st

 

[HuGo Sham]

Pierre McGuire who gets slagged on here a lot, knows more about hockey on his pinky than most of us on here and is plugged into the leagues GMs was on with his tsn radio buddy mitch Melnick and talked about Pacioretty returning “100 cents” on the dollar based on what he had heard from GMs. As per duchene, argument can be made that Matt arguably isn’t even considered a centre by some teams. That being said, return would be similar. Let’s relax on the “ageing” he just turned 29, is 2nd among ALL left wingers in goals the last five years and makes 4.5 million through next year when the salary cap will be at least 5-7 million more than it is today. His return will be significant if habs decide to move him. A contender will give up a lot for him or one of the NY teams who feel he would like to maybe take a bit less to finish his career close to home

 

[Viqsi]

Pierre McGuire who gets slagged on here a lot, knows more about hockey on his pinky than most of us on here and is plugged into the leagues GMs was on with his tsn radio buddy mitch Melnick and talked about Pacioretty returning “100 cents” on the dollar based on what he had heard from GMs. As per duchene, argument can be made that Matt arguably isn’t even considered a centre by some teams. That being said, return would be similar. Let’s relax on the “ageing” he just turned 29, is 2nd among ALL left wingers in goals the last five years and makes 4.5 million through next year when the salary cap will be at least 5-7 million more than it is today. His return will be significant if habs decide to move him. A contender will give up a lot for him or one of the NY teams who feel he would like to maybe take a bit less to finish his career close to home

MaxPac would get a large return. But "large return" for a scoring winger generally involves quantity, not quality.

 

[gillyguzzler]

Whether you like him or not, if Patches is made available at the deadline, he'll fetch a very very nice return... much more than the naysayers here are saying.

Which players will be available at the deadline that are better and still signed for another year?

Anyone from Arizona? Nope.
Buffalo? Nope.
Florida? Nope.
Vancouver? Nope.
Ottawa? Karlsson may be available.

There are always tons of buyers and a 30-40 goal perennial goal scorer on an affordable contract will be sought after by every contender.

 

[72hockey guy]

Whether you like him or not, if Patches is made available at the deadline, he'll fetch a very very nice return... much more than the naysayers here are saying.

Which players will be available at the deadline that are better and still signed for another year?

Anyone from Arizona? Nope.
Buffalo? Nope.
Florida? Nope.
Vancouver? Nope.
Ottawa? Karlsson may be available.

There are always tons of buyers and a 30-40 goal perennial goal scorer on an affordable contract will be sought after by every contender.

that we will see...but it wont be a #1 center or one perceived to eventually be one like PLD. The absolute best case I could see is RNH and im not even sure oiler fans would do that

Centers just have better value than equivalent forwards

 

[gillyguzzler]

that we will see...but it wont be a #1 center or one perceived to eventually be one like PLD. The absolute best case I could see is RNH and im not even sure oiler fans would do that

Centers just have better value than equivalent forwards

Not sure where you see a #1C or PLD in my post.

 

[72hockey guy]

Not sure where you see a #1C or PLD in my post.

you didnt, i was just referring to the rest of the thread in general since the Habs need a center

 

[Kraken Jokes]

that we will see...but it wont be a #1 center or one perceived to eventually be one like PLD.

I'm not sure anyone with a brain is asking for that. Where is this coming from?

 

[72hockey guy]

I'm not sure anyone with a brain is asking for that. Where is this coming from?

from here

Habs trade
Patch
Poehling
1st

CBJ trades
Dubois
4th round pick

CBJ adds a 30 goal scorer to go along with a C prospect and a top 10 pick. Habs get the hometown hero to play with Drouin.

and here:

Quoted and emphasized for truth, because the irony here is so damned thick you couldn't cut it with a chainsaw.


And while I'm here, here's a quick tip for Habs fans, since some of y'all continue to comically fail to get the point. Here is what it will take for you to get a top-6 center (read: PLD or Wennberg) from Columbus: An identical top-6 center. Because we can't afford to lose any - we'd be just as desperate as you guys are. Stop, stop, stop, STOP, for the love of G-d Almighty and as an appeal to the spirit of the holidays ****ing STOP trying to acquire them. Especially if MaxPac is involved, because we don't need him or want him.

Seriously, y'all are getting almost as bad as the Hemsky-for-Johansen Oil fans back in the day.

there are several pacioretty threads as hab fans look to fix what ails them

 

[Mrb1p]

Look at what Vanek, Kessel, Nash, Carter, etc got.

Vanek got Moulson(2nd line forward) and 10 20 range pick.

Kessel got Kapanen (blue chipperish), 20 30 range pick, Harrington (project), spaling (contract) and a low 3rd.

Carter got a top 4 D and a conditional 1st (15 25 range)

Nash got Anisimov, Duby, Erixon and mid 20s first. Probably the nest overall package of all but also the most coveited.

Gaborik got Brass (middle 6 C at the time), Dorsett, moore and a low pick (arguably the worst package and player here.)


I think what Carter and Kessel got is pretty much around what Patch will fetch.

Sprong, 1st and a contract? Id probably want a bit more.

Tolvanen conditonal 1st ? The Preds are probably scared of sending Tolvanen away at this point.

Pulju and a pick? Pulju has raised some eyebrows but id do it. Big and smart.

St louis ?

Toronto?

Any other teams need top 6 LWs? NYI making a push to keep JT?

Dallas reuniting Rads and Pac?

LA?
Chicago?
Vegas wants to make a big PO splash?

 

[Viqsi]

Nash got Anisimov, Duby, Erixon and mid 20s first. Probably the nest overall package of all but also the most coveited.

And that's going to be damnably difficult to reproduce, because the Rangers at that point had an established #1C (Brad Richards) and three young twentysomething #2-3Cs (Dubinsky, age 25; Anisimov, age 23; Stepan, age 21). They ultimately went with keeping the one that was youngest and most productive (Stepan) and giving away the other two.

That's not exactly a common roster scenario (I can't find anything really analogous to it here outside of maybe the Islanders, and the two guys there (Cizikas and Nelson) are both 26 - and they're a tad stacked on top-6 wing anyways). And the Rangers didn't even stick with it for long; the deadline that very following season is when they traded for Brassard.

 

[Mrb1p]

And that's going to be damnably difficult to reproduce, because the Rangers at that point had an established #1C (Brad Richards) and three young twentysomething #2-3Cs (Dubinsky, age 25; Anisimov, age 23; Stepan, age 21). They ultimately went with keeping the one that was youngest and most productive (Stepan) and giving away the other two.

That's not exactly a common roster scenario (I can't find anything really analogous to it here outside of maybe the Islanders, and the two guys there (Cizikas and Nelson) are both 26 - and they're a tad stacked on top-6 wing anyways). And the Rangers didn't even stick with it for long; the deadline that very following season is when they traded for Brassard.

Obviously, as I said, the best player and best package at the time.

 

[CaliforniaBlues310]

Barbashev+Gunnarsson+2019 1st and if that’s not enough, add another pick from this upcoming draft. Picks aren’t an issue, with the Blues likely dumping players such as Berglund/Sobotka and maybe Steen in the off-season for picks.

 

[EDMOILERS9729]

I dont think this would ever happen but:

Oilers: Nuge, Lucic, Caleb Jones, 2018 2nd, 2018 3rd
Habs: Paches, Galchenyuk

 

[CREW99AW]

Look at what



Any other teams need top 6 LWs? NYI making a push to keep JT?

sh?

Lee is coming off a 34 goal season and on pace for 40+ goals now.He provides a physical presence on Tavares lw.

Ladd has a ntc. The Ladd-Barzal-Eberle line is very productive, with Ladd providing the physical presence on that line.

Isles are 2nd or 3rd in league scoring.
Not gonna be in the mix for Patches.

 

[Stuzchuk]

Maybe CBJ is looking at him, are they willing to move a Pacioretty equivalent? Since they're a playoff team, wouldn't they more likely pursue someone more proven in the NHL?

Carlsson+2nd+?

 

[Viqsi]

Carlsson+2nd+?

Hypothetically doable by CBJ, but I wouldn't be shocked if Montreal would prefer an additional asset on top of that. We don't exactly have a pressing need for wingers, tho...