The Quad

[Northerner]

I don't think anyone in MN has won:

-Boys state high school championship
-NCAA championship
-Olympic Gold medal
-Stanley Cup ring

The only two that come to mind are Neal Broten and Herb brooks (player and coach), but I believe both fell short (Broten Roseau Rams lose state champ game? And Brooks never coached a Stanley cup champ?)


Am I wrong about that?

If so, do you think it will ever be done?

Click to read more...

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Ever is a long time. Yes.

 

[Northerner]

Ever is a long time. Yes.

Well I don't know if MN HS hockey will be relevant much longer. Maybe it will be, maybe it will be stronger 100 years from now, but with the best players leaving earlier and earlier and USTDP plucking kids too, I don't know if it will mean a ton down the road

 

[Northerner]

The stars really have to align to get that Olympic Gold, and the Cup is a tough get too.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Well I don't know if MN HS hockey will be relevant much longer. Maybe it will be, maybe it will be stronger 100 years from now, but with the best players leaving earlier and earlier and USTDP plucking kids too, I don't know if it will mean a ton down the road

It just needs to produce 1 elite player (or a very lucky one).

Win a state title as a freshman/sophomore.
Win a NCAA title as freshman/sophomore.
Then be a really good NHL player.

 

[AKL]

It just needs to produce 1 elite player (or a very lucky one).

Win a state title as a freshman/sophomore.
Win a NCAA title as freshman/sophomore.
Then be a really good NHL player.

Who was the last "really good NHL player" Minnesota produced? Parise? He played in the Olympics once. Oshie could have been one too but he kept falling short of all the championships outside of the Stanley Cup. Boeser already missed out on the high school championship.

I don't know, never say never but.... That's a lot that has to 1) happen and then 2) go right, for such a relatively short career in some of those leagues. Accomplishing one? Not a problem. All 4? Super tall order.

 

[Northerner]

How many others (players or coaches) has won three of the four?

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Who was the last "really good NHL player" Minnesota produced? Parise? He played in the Olympics once. Oshie could have been one too but he kept falling short of all the championships outside of the Stanley Cup. Boeser already missed out on the high school championship.

I don't know, never say never but.... That's a lot that has to 1) happen and then 2) go right, for such a relatively short career in some of those leagues. Accomplishing one? Not a problem. All 4? Super tall order.

McDonagh, if he picked the right college? There is definitely luck that would go into it, no doubt.

 

[Northerner]

I wonder if any American from another state has won all four? Would have had to be on the '60 or '80 Gold medal rosters.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Bobby Brink has the first two I think.

 

[Northerner]

Bobby Brink has the first two I think.

He won w Minnetonka, won Gold at the World Juniors, did Denver win nat champ w him?

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

He won w Minnetonka, won Gold at the World Juniors, did Denver win nat champ w him?

Yes, in 2022.

 

[AKL]

Bobby Brink has the first two I think.

I guess we're all cheering for Bobby Brink and the Flyers now, nice call out/find

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

I guess we're all cheering for Bobby Brink and the Flyers now, nice call out/find

Not a "find" necessarily. Just know who helped win my high school its first hockey state championship.

 

[Northerner]

I was at the Minnetonka championship game and remember Brink scoring.

I don't think Brink is good enough to make the US team in three yrs (if they will even allow NHLers back in)

 

[AKL]

I was at the Minnetonka championship game and remember Brink scoring.

I don't think Brink is good enough to make the US team in three yrs (if they will even allow NHLers back in)

He's having a pretty decent season, if he keeps improving he could do it as a 4th liner/13th F I think

 

[Northerner]

He's having a pretty decent season, if he keeps improving he could do it as a 4th liner/13th F I think

I mean US hockey is just so damn strong right now, I would think that 3rd and 4th lines will be more big guys/grinders who also have some skill. But who knows he could turn into an Atkinson and get considered for a top-6 spot some years from now

 

[TaLoN]

Who was the last "really good NHL player" Minnesota produced?

Brock Faber, Certified Stud.

Played youth hockey in Maple Grove until the NTDP called, which then he played for team USA for 2 years before going to the Gophers. Similar path as Parise, only Zach stopped playing in the Jefferson Jaguars youth system (went to Shattuck for a couple years) sooner than Brock stopped playing in MG's system.

 

[TaLoN]

I don't think anyone in MN has won:

-Boys state high school championship
-NCAA championship
-Olympic Gold medal
-Stanley Cup ring

The only two that come to mind are Neal Broten and Herb brooks (player and coach), but I believe both fell short (Broten Roseau Rams lose state champ game? And Brooks never coached a Stanley cup champ?)


Am I wrong about that?

If so, do you think it will ever be done?

Neal Broten and Ed Belfour are the only two players in history to win a NCAA National title, Stanley Cup and Olympic Gold... so it's highly improbable, but still possible.

 

[BagHead]

The stars really have to align to get that Olympic Gold, and the Cup is a tough get too.

From a statistical point of view, I think the order of difficulty to achieve are probably:

1 Olympics
2 High School State Championship
2 NCAA Championship
4 Stanley Cup

The reason for this order is because of the number of opportunities you have to win at those levels. It's assumed that a player must be great to have a chance at all of these, This means there's a good possibility that a great player will only get one chance at the State Championship before moving on to the USNTDP, though being a great player will certainly help their team's odds as the quality of competition is low compared to the others on the list. For the NCAA Championship, a great player these days is reasonably playing between one and three seasons in college. A player only has so many productive years, and most great players only play in three to four Olympics. That's also dependent on if the NHL even allows its players to go. If they're not allowed to go, then your player has once chance at it, at most, when they're in college.

Compare all of these to the NHL, in which a great player will have 10-20 seasons in which they can strive for the Cup.

I think it's become harder to accomplish thanks to the USNTDP. I also think that, with enough time, it's going to happen. While it is so difficult to accomplish that the person who does it will be a mathematical anomaly, with enough time (and therefore samples) it will eventually become anomalous for it to not happen*.


*Assuming the hockey landscape doesn't change, ever, which is unlikely.