Post-Game Talk: The Powerhouse at Vegas | 01/08/19 - 10PM - MSG PLUS

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aufheben

#Norris4Fox
Jan 31, 2013
53,725
27,486
New Jersey
Better find a church and pray for this team. But seriously, Dolan, even better find a good coach, Joel Quenneville is available, you missed out on getting him couple of times, looks like you will miss out this time as well.
Is he available? Why is this guy, who coached in the NHL for 22 years, and left on the highest possible note, going to come back just to deal with some trashheap of a team?

Kings/Oilers/Flyers fans also wanted him. Instead: Willie Desjardins/Ken Hitchcock/Scott Gordon.

Yeah, no thanks. I’d say Gorton was pretty well ahead of the curve on this one.
 
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Edge

Kris King's Ghost
Mar 1, 2002
34,749
42,578
Amish Paradise
That’s the thing, the hype. Gauging success against their highest potential, not against their draft positions. Pavel Buchnevich: At age 23, he has all but solidified his role of, at worst, a scoring 2W. 75th overall. If you got that kind of value out of every draft pick, you’d have a contending team within a handful of years.

Can we pin this post? Only half-joking.

This is why when people be ask for projections on kids, or someone's ceiling, I get agita.

Then you factor in that people either put the kid on a rocket ship to the moon, or want to bury them at sea based on every little fart and fiddle in their D+1 and D+2 years.

They ask for a ceiling, you give them a ceiling, and then it just keeps growing. Suddenly every accomplishment gets magnified.

I love when we find weird references, "Player X has scored more points under the age of 20, than any right handed shot, who hasn't average more than 19 minutes a night, in the SHL" or "here's so-and so's stats favorably compared to [insert NHL star] when they were playing in [insert league]."

They're all stars on here until they're not, then their average, or busts, or disappointments. We rank prospects because "we gotta go with the upside" and that usually equates to "I like the way this kids numbers look, and he hasn't played a higher level of competition that's exposed his flaws yet."

And WE do this to ourselves over and over and over again. We either love something or we don't. That whole middle ground thing is boring and gets glossed over.

You can say, "I think [player] has a shot to be a second line center, maybe in the 50-60 point range." But that's not dramatic enough. So then you have to debate whether the people who want that guy to be a 60-70 point player, as well the people who think he's a 40 point player.

And there are some people on here who are really good at splitting that difference, and they tend to be pretty darn accurate. But yet you'll see something like, "I normally agree with [user name]. but in this particular case I really think..."

And I do kinda have to laugh because we tend to recognize these posters in the past-tense, but not nearly as often in the present tense.

That's why we debate guys like Skjei, Pionk, Buchnevich. Because we react to whether they are hot or cold, having a good stretch or season, or a bad stretch or season. And so while we might initially view them as second pairing, third pairing, and second line respectively, they can never compete with the surge that they receive at some point that pushes them to first pair, second pair and first line. Even when they ultimately end up at the initial projection, it's going to feel like a disappointment after that hype.

So yes, hype is a major, major challenge.
 

bl02

Registered User
Jan 13, 2014
32,580
22,769
Yeah because he literally just broke Blair Betts’ face in the playoffs a few months prior. I’ll never forget that dirty cheap play, go watch this clip, the ******* chants from the crowd, the MSG crowd isn’t the same anymore. Brashear is a really bad person, he got arrested a few years ago in Canada for trying to run an opposing player over with his car. I’ll never forget when we let Orr walk and signed this clown. I actually rooted for Orr against him even though he was wearing a Rangers sweater when they fought.

couldn't have said it better! It made me sick to my stomach when we signed him. Sather is a f***ing buffoon!
That hit on Betts was disgusting. Now that I watched that clip I'm sick again and for the Refs to only give him 2 could be the worst call in history!!!!
 

Thirty One

Safe is safe.
Dec 28, 2003
28,981
24,354
couldn't have said it better! It made me sick to my stomach when we signed him. Sather is a ****ing buffoon!
That hit on Betts was disgusting. Now that I watched that clip I'm sick again and for the Refs to only give him 2 could be the worst call in history!!!!
Is Brashear still the only 35+ contract the Rangers have signed?
 

mrhockey193195

Registered User
Nov 14, 2006
6,533
2,049
Denver, CO
The only evidence that this is a “tank is a bad learning environment” is refusal to admit some of these prospects were unbelievably and unbearingly over rated.

Superstars somehow survive. Superstars cutting their teeth on the wastebins of the league is as old as the draft itself, and those guys made it.

Superstars somehow survive, I agree. But no team has more than three or four superstars. This rebuild is meant to fill out most of our roster by developing players, many of whom are projected to be 2nd or 3rd line players, and many of whom will be ruined if we put them on a dark-ages-esque team.

Chytil might be a superstar, I'm not sure why so many people are changing their tune after 40 NHL games played at 19 years old. But regardless, he is projected to be at least a 2/3 C. Ditto for Howden and Lias. Those are exactly the type of good prospects that you want to bring up gradually and surround with veterans and a good team environment.
 

Paulie Walnutz

Make HF Great Again
Oct 1, 2008
10,637
7,941
couldn't have said it better! It made me sick to my stomach when we signed him. Sather is a ****ing buffoon!
That hit on Betts was disgusting. Now that I watched that clip I'm sick again and for the Refs to only give him 2 could be the worst call in history!!!!
I’m not condoning violence or advocating for injury, but I literally did not feel an ounce of sympathy when McSorley clubbed him. Brashear is a legitimate piece of shit human being.
 
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ReggieDunlop68

hey hanrahan!
Oct 4, 2008
14,441
4,434
It’s a rebuild.
Superstars somehow survive, I agree. But no team has more than three or four superstars. This rebuild is meant to fill out most of our roster by developing players, many of whom are projected to be 2nd or 3rd line players, and many of whom will be ruined if we put them on a dark-ages-esque team.

Chytil might be a superstar, I'm not sure why so many people are changing their tune after 40 NHL games played at 19 years old. But regardless, he is projected to be at least a 2/3 C. Ditto for Howden and Lias. Those are exactly the type of good prospects that you want to bring up gradually and surround with veterans and a good team environment.

Only winning teams develop prospects?

I assumed they were developing in practice and you know playing in the f***ing NHL.

Just more excuses by the day.
 

ltsthinaz

Registered User
Dec 20, 2011
977
46
Kingman, Arizona
If we kept Hayes to be the 2C of the future and traded Zibanejad, I wouldn't lose sleep.
Just as a FYI, I watched game at ice level yesterday. Zbad is loaded with talent, he can be scary good. He' s easy to stop, they have 3 lines that are absolutely horrid - stop him and Kreider, you're playing Hartford.
 
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mrhockey193195

Registered User
Nov 14, 2006
6,533
2,049
Denver, CO
Only winning teams develop prospects?

I assumed they were developing in practice and you know playing in the ****ing NHL.

Just more excuses by the day.
Winning teams develop prospects better than losing teams. See: New Jersey & Detroit from the 90s/00s, and more recently Boston, San Jose, Pittsburgh, NYR, Washington.

There's a reason why Florida, Columbus, Buffalo, Edmonton, Atlanta, etc. were bottom feeders for a decade despite multiple top 5 draft picks. Hell, just refer to Andrew Ference's interview on 31 Thoughts to see why a losing culture is bad for young players.
 

GoAwayPanarin

HFBoards Sponsor
Sponsor
May 27, 2008
42,593
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In High Altitoad
Winning teams develop prospects better than losing teams. See: New Jersey & Detroit from the 90s/00s, and more recently Boston, San Jose, Pittsburgh, NYR, Washington.

There's a reason why Florida, Columbus, Buffalo, Edmonton, Atlanta, etc. were bottom feeders for a decade despite multiple top 5 draft picks. Hell, just refer to Andrew Ference's interview on 31 Thoughts to see why a losing culture is bad for young players.

Those teams that failed aren't exactly big market teams that free agents are dying to go to.

Florida has spent some money but also got f***ed over royally due to some inept management (which has been an issue for most of those other teams as well.) How much better would they be right now with JAM and Smith?

Pittsburgh lost a lot until they didn't (plus they won a f***ing lottery). Same for the Leafs if you want a more recent example of a big market team that decided to bite the bullet and suck for a few years.
 

ReggieDunlop68

hey hanrahan!
Oct 4, 2008
14,441
4,434
It’s a rebuild.
Winning teams develop prospects better than losing teams. See: New Jersey & Detroit from the 90s/00s, and more recently Boston, San Jose, Pittsburgh, NYR, Washington.

There's a reason why Florida, Columbus, Buffalo, Edmonton, Atlanta, etc. were bottom feeders for a decade despite multiple top 5 draft picks. Hell, just refer to Andrew Ference's interview on 31 Thoughts to see why a losing culture is bad for young players.

The players developed while the team was losing.
 

ReggieDunlop68

hey hanrahan!
Oct 4, 2008
14,441
4,434
It’s a rebuild.
The Rangers are a losing culture.

I’m getting frustrated with the semantic of losing games to be equated to losers if there is a long term plan.

Hell I guess any player who comes off for a line change is “giving up” if we want to be pedantic and use the same line of reasoning.
 

Kakko Schmakko

Registered User
Feb 24, 2018
5,033
1,569
Might sound crazy but, wouldnt it have made more sense in hiring Quinn as Hartford coach and say Q....... for the Rangers?
Quinn coaching Chytil, Howden, Lias down there in what should become a winning atmosphere for a couple to 3 years and then bring them up (with Quinn) when ready?
We really let AV off the hook. He should have been held responsible for this and suffer like we all are now.
He's even getting paid to do nothing......right?

that would make too much sense for this organization.
 

Rongomania

Registered User
Dec 31, 2017
3,845
5,042
Inwood
The Rangers are a losing culture.

I’m getting frustrated with the semantic of losing games to be equated to losers if there is a long term plan.

Hell I guess any player who comes off for a line change is “giving up” if we want to be pedantic and use the same line of reasoning.

I wouldn’t say “Losing culture.”

There has been constant accountability. They are just dog****. When the looming trades happen, new blood will come in and they’ll continue to grow, progress and be held accountable for their actions.

Kreider needs the C man.
 

Rongomania

Registered User
Dec 31, 2017
3,845
5,042
Inwood
The rebuild or whatever the **** this is.

Trust. The. Process.

What’re you going to do next year when they likely blow again ?

You’ve got to be cool and just really hope this master plan works. Not next season, but the season after is when I see this team HOPEFULLY taking that next jump.

We’re watching the growing pains of multiple youngsters. This is what it’s all about. This season is a monster learning experience for a bunch of guys on this team and in this system. We must hope for progression.

Ugh.
 
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