OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: World Cup N'at

[domaug]

IMO Bell is not worth losing the extra valuable cap space needed to address the problem areas on the roster, no matter how good he is.

if the Steelers can't reach an agreement with him long-term, tag him (if he wasn't tagged already) and listen to offers.

 

[TimmyD]

Unless it's Bell for Ramsey the Steelers lose that trade.

There is also no chance Jacksonville or any team with a corner similar to Ramsey would make that trade

 

[TimmyD]

Bell is the best player I've ever seen. The way he effortlessly makes people miss is amazing. Keep him at all costs.

Best you have ever seen? Did you not get to watch Barry Sanders and Walter Payton?

 

[PensandCaps]

Best you have ever seen? Do you not get to watch Barry Sanders and Walter Payton?

No. But I think Bell is right there if you look at the stats.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

No. But I think Bell is right there if you look at the stats.

Maybe with all purpose yards Bell is in the conversation I suppose, but in terms of being a rusher, he's not in the same universe as Sanders.

Sanders had 2k yards rushing in a season once, and avg over 6 ypc that season. That is video game numbers.

He also had a few 1500 yard seasons, a few more 1400 yard seasons, an 1800 yard season, all while playing with shitty o-lines and nobody QBs.

He had a 5.0 avg carry over his career which is insane, and there simply has never been a back like him that could make people miss quite the way he could.

He was so explosive and quick, and his moves were so ridiculous, he made guys blow out their knees ala Woodson.

Sanders was a one of a kind freak of nature we may never see again.

 

[Brandinho]

Maybe with all purpose yards Bell is in the conversation I suppose, but in terms of being a rusher, he's not in the same universe as Sanders.

Sanders had 2k yards rushing in a season once, and avg over 6 ypc that season. That is video game numbers.

He also had a few 1500 yard seasons, a few more 1400 yard seasons, an 1800 yard season, all while playing with ****ty o-lines and nobody QBs.

He had a 5.0 avg carry over his career which is insane, and there simply has never been a back like him that could make people miss quite the way he could.

He was so explosive and quick, and his moves were so ridiculous, he made guys blow out their knees ala Woodson.

Sanders was a one of a kind freak of nature we may never see again.

Barry was incredible, but even he takes a back seat to Bo Jackson when it comes to freaks of nature.

Of course, Barry had the better career for obvious reasons, but Super Bo stands alone in my opinion.

 

[Dick Sledge]

Barry was incredible, but even he takes a back seat to Bo Jackson when it comes to freaks of nature.

Of course, Barry had the better career for obvious reasons, but Super Bo stands alone in my opinion.

You could always ask The Boz

 

[Al Smith]

You could always ask The Boz

Or you could ask Rod Woodson about Sanders. Sanders twisted Woodson, who was a fantastic tackler, with a juke so badly that Woodson tore his ACL. Payton is up there with Sanders and Bo. I saw him in an airport once. I couldn’t believe how little he was and how he didn’t get killed in the nfl

Oops - missed Jiggy’s reference to Woodson.

 

[Brandinho]

I think we can agree that there are so many amazing RBs that Le'Veon Bell really shouldn't be the best RB anybody's ever seen.

 

[Al Smith]

I don’t want to sell Bell short. I like him a lot on the field. But he’s just not up there with the greats. Maybe more along the lines of Roger Craig in terms of talent. And I don’t think I’d want to give him a 3 or 4 year deal at this point.

 

[Shockmaster]

Did Bell really turn down a contract offering him $13.3 million per year? If so, I don’t see how anyone can take his side on this.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Barry was incredible, but even he takes a back seat to Bo Jackson when it comes to freaks of nature.

Of course, Barry had the better career for obvious reasons, but Super Bo stands alone in my opinion.

As an over all athlete perhaps, as a football player I'll take Sanders.

 

[TimmyD]

I think we can agree that there are so many amazing RBs that Le'Veon Bell really shouldn't be the best RB anybody's ever seen.

Agreed. Off the top of my head I can name at least 5 or more backs that are better than Bell

 

[Brandinho]

As an over all athlete perhaps, as a football player I'll take Sanders.

I mean, there's no comparison whatsoever as an overall athlete. Bo excelled at the highest level of three sports.

As a football player, it's muddier because he had to split carries with an All-Pro (although he did supplant him in quick order) and then his career was tragically cut short. Both were incredible to watch, Barry with unparalleled short area quickness and Bo with an awe inspiring combination of speed, agility and power. Given that Bo spent a fair bit of time at fullback, it would have been hilarious to see them in the same backfield.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I mean, there's no comparison whatsoever as an overall athlete. Bo excelled at the highest level of three sports.

As a football player, it's muddier because he had to split carries with an All-Pro (although he did supplant him in quick order) and then his career was tragically cut short. Both were incredible to watch, Barry with unparalleled short area quickness and Bo with an awe inspiring combination of speed, agility and power. Given that Bo spent a fair bit of time at fullback, it would have been hilarious to see them in the same backfield.

It's hard to put forth an argument as an overall athlete in other sports because I never saw Sanders play anything but football, so can't argue blind.

As a football player, Jackson reminded me a lot of Herschel Walker. Extremely fast, but pretty upright and stiff. He had a little more shiftiness than Walker though.

In terms of agility and quickness, I don't think Walker could hold a candle to Sanders. Sanders would twist the best athletes into pretzels in the open field. Guys would actually retreat back away from him out of fear to give themselves a better chance of squaring up with him.

He had the quickest feet I've ever seen and could hit top speed almost from a standstill. Teams used to have to corral Sanders and then gang tackle him.

I've never seen a RB scare even the very best like Sanders could in the open.

Like I said, Sanders was just a complete freak.

 

[JimmyTwoTimes]

Did Bell really turn down a contract offering him $13.3 million per year? If so, I don’t see how anyone can take his side on this.

Have no problem with players trying to get as much as they can, but this situation is ridiculous. What the steelers offered would have already made him the highest paid RB. Not good enough..he wants to be paid like a #1 WR.

On a team whos so close to winning it all..and against the cap. Thats not a team player.

Tag him and draft a rb this year and hope we get someone whos legit enough to where we can trade Bell. And can use that money to add two good players .

 

[Brandinho]

It's hard to put forth an argument as an overall athlete in other sports because I never saw Sanders play anything but football, so can't argue blind.

As a football player, Jackson reminded me a lot of Herschel Walker. Extremely fast, but pretty upright and stiff. He had a little more shiftiness than Walker though.

In terms of agility and quickness, I don't think Walker could hold a candle to Sanders. Sanders would twist the best athletes into pretzels in the open field. Guys would actually retreat back away from him out of fear to give themselves a better chance of squaring up with him.

He had the quickest feet I've ever seen and could hit top speed almost from a standstill. Teams used to have to corral Sanders and then gang tackle him.

I've never seen a RB scare even the very best like Sanders could in the open.

Like I said, Sanders was just a complete freak.

First, I'd say that I don't think any player in NFL history can come close to Barry in terms of short area quickness, so I do agree with that point. However, I don't think it's accurate to call Bo stiff. Upright? Sure, but every RB over 6 feet is going to seem upright. You have to remember, he was 6'1 230 in an era where players were much smaller. When he can just go through you or make one cut and outrun your entire team, he didn't need to use his agility. He could truck any LB in the game. He could outrun any DB. It wasn't fair.

Second, I think a lot of this is going to be influenced by what you look for in a player. There are a lot of people who will argue that Barry was overrated because of his negative yardage and things like that. I'm not one of them as I think they're missing the forest for the trees, but there's really nothing that sticks out in Bo's game as a comparable negative. They're both absolute freaks, but I'll always prefer Bo just as you clearly prefer Barry.

 

[DanielPlainview]

There is also no chance Jacksonville or any team with a corner similar to Ramsey would make that trade

The point is Bell is one of the best players in the league at any position. Trading him for a DB or LB is ridiculous unless you're getting a Ramsey-like talent. Or a dumptruck full of draft picks.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

First, I'd say that I don't think any player in NFL history can come close to Barry in terms of short area quickness, so I do agree with that point. However, I don't think it's accurate to call Bo stiff. Upright? Sure, but every RB over 6 feet is going to seem upright. You have to remember, he was 6'1 230 in an era where players were much smaller. When he can just go through you or make one cut and outrun your entire team, he didn't need to use his agility. He could truck any LB in the game. He could outrun any DB. It wasn't fair.

Second, I think a lot of this is going to be influenced by what you look for in a player. There are a lot of people who will argue that Barry was overrated because of his negative yardage and things like that. I'm not one of them as I think they're missing the forest for the trees, but there's really nothing that sticks out in Bo's game as a comparable negative. They're both absolute freaks, but I'll always prefer Bo just as you clearly prefer Barry.

Jackson could definitely beat guys with speed or run them over, no arguments there. He wasn't Christian Okoye stiff, but he never looked anywhere close to Sanders in terms of agility and smoothness.

I don't want to make it out like I don't think Jackson was a great RB because he was, I just think Sanders was a once in a lifetime player. I just don't believe that we will ever see another player with that insane explosion, elusiveness and power.

Sanders was the only RB I ever saw that you could see other players were visibly fearful of. He embarrassed all-time greats like White, Singletary, Woodson, etc on a routine basis and broke down their fundamentals in an almost comical way. It was fascinating to watch how they would be afraid to make the first move on him.

Obviously they were fearful he would make them look silly and end up on his highlight reels, and tons of players admitted that about Sanders.

 

[Brandinho]

Jackson could definitely beat guys with speed or run them over, no arguments there. He wasn't Christian Okoye stiff, but he never looked anywhere close to Sanders in terms of agility and smoothness.

I don't want to make it out like I don't think Jackson was a great RB because he was, I just think Sanders was a once in a lifetime player. I just don't believe that we will ever see another player with that insane explosion, elusiveness and power.

Sanders was the only RB I ever saw that you could see other players were visibly fearful of. He embarrassed all-time greats like White, Singletary, Woodson, etc on a routine basis and broke down their fundamentals in an almost comical way. It was fascinating to watch how they would be afraid to make the first move on him.

Obviously they were fearful he would make them look silly and end up on his highlight reels, and tons of players admitted that about Sanders.

Everything you've said here is true and there's nothing that I'd even want to nitpick because it's all objective and reasonable, but it also goes back to what I was saying about what you or I look for in a player heavily influencing the discussion. For example, Barry clearly has Bo beat in terms of agility and elusiveness. Likewise, Bo clearly has Barry beat in terms of raw power and speed. Both are incredibly explosive, albeit in very different ways. It's interesting that you talk about how great players are visibly fearful of Barry because I notice the same thing with Bo. With Barry, they back off of him because they know his feet move quicker than their brains and feet combined. With Bo, they back off of him because they don't want to get run over, but they also realize that they can't keep pace with him in a sprint. Both guys were such ridiculous physical specimens that they were able to use their opponents' anticipation of what they were capable of against them. The moment their opponents start to hesitate and second guess themselves, that exponentiates the already outrageous physical abilities that Barry and Bo display.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Everything you've said here is true and there's nothing that I'd even want to nitpick because it's all objective and reasonable, but it also goes back to what I was saying about what you or I look for in a player heavily influencing the discussion. For example, Barry clearly has Bo beat in terms of agility and elusiveness. Likewise, Bo clearly has Barry beat in terms of raw power and speed. Both are incredibly explosive, albeit in very different ways. It's interesting that you talk about how great players are visibly fearful of Barry because I notice the same thing with Bo. With Barry, they back off of him because they know his feet move quicker than their brains and feet combined. With Bo, they back off of him because they don't want to get run over, but they also realize that they can't keep pace with him in a sprint. Both guys were such ridiculous physical specimens that they were able to use their opponents' anticipation of what they were capable of against them. The moment their opponents start to hesitate and second guess themselves, that exponentiates the already outrageous physical abilities that Barry and Bo display.

In the end, they were both great players, but the guy that entertained you the most, is your guy.

Obviously for me that was Sanders.

 

[Brandinho]

In the end, they were both great players, but the guy that entertained you the most, is your guy.

Obviously for me that was Sanders.

Well said.

 

[TNT87]

So Pitt fired Stallings. Gee, I'm shocked hiring a bad coach who won nothing at Vanderbilt wouldn't be a success.

 

[Iggy Smalls]

Don't be surprised if Aaron Gray becomes a serious contender for the next coach. The search began several weeks ago.

 

[wheelz87]

Bring back Brandin Knight baby