OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: New Quarter Backs for the Handball team!

[Captain Hook]

Those against C in round one wax poetic about how we should have drafted Humphrey a few years ago. Center is a premium position, in my opinion. With JPJ you're getting wrecker in the middle of the OL that sets the tone for everyone else.

Is it really a premium position if you can get the BPA at that position in the 20s or later in nearly every draft? Don't you have to consider how often tackles of this caliber are available in the 20s vs. centers.

I have nothing against JP-J by the way. I think he'd be a fine pick. I just lean tackle or corner this year.

It's an interesting debate. I remember our board having this same conversation in 2010. Ironically I was team Pouncey (center) and I believe you were all in on taking Bryan Bulaga (tackle) . Crazy that was 14 years ago now.

 

[Coastal Kev]

I have been watching Olu Fashanu slide down draft boards. I haven't looked at his combine performance closely because...it's Fashanu.

Dude is 6'6 312 pounds. 34 inch arms. 8.5 inch hands. Dude has tenticles for arms and legit Kenny Pickett hands. Unless there is a reporting error...he has the smallest hands for a massive guy.

Having watched him for most of career, he plays small as well.

 

[JTG]

Center really isn't a premium position, but if he's the best player available they kind of have to take him given the spot they've placed themselves in at the position.

Is it really a premium position if you can get the BPA at that position in the 20s or later in nearly every draft? Don't you have to consider how often tackles of this caliber are available in the 20s vs. centers.

I have nothing against JP-J by the way. I think he'd be a fine pick. I just lean tackle or corner this year.

It's an interesting debate. I remember our board having this same conversation in 2010. Ironically I was team Pouncey (center) and I believe you were all in on taking Bryan Bulaga (tackle) . Crazy that was 14 years ago now.

It's not a "skilled" position. I would argue that a guy who touches the ball every single play and is the middle of the offensive line who makes the calls...he's premium - but that's just me. We always find WRs in the middle of drafts - does that mean they aren't a premium position?

An average center can be found throughout the draft. A top C is typically a first or second round pick. I think JPJ comes in an is immediately a top 10 interior player. I'd pick him and not think twice.

Having watched him for most of career, he plays small as well.

He's super skilled but he definitely needs more of a killer instinct.

 

[WickedWrister]

It's not a "skilled" position. I would argue that a guy who touches the ball every single play and is the middle of the offensive line who makes the calls...he's premium - but that's just me. We always find WRs in the middle of drafts - does that mean they aren't a premium position?

An average center can be found throughout the draft. A top C is typically a first or second round pick. I think JPJ comes in an is immediately a top 10 interior player. I'd pick him and not think twice.



He's super skilled but he definitely needs more of a killer instinct.

Even Jason Kelce thinks C is the easiest position to play haha. Does make a good point about it being mentally tough and having to know assignments and protection schemes.

 

[WickedWrister]

I don't see a lot of analytics for offensive linemen, so I thought I'd share. Comparing the 1st round picks of the last few years. Not sure how insightful this is but cool to look at regardless.

TPS=True Pass Sets

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

I have been watching Olu Fashanu slide down draft boards. I haven't looked at his combine performance closely because...it's Fashanu.

Dude is 6'6 312 pounds. 34 inch arms. 8.5 inch hands. Dude has tenticles for arms and legit Kenny Pickett hands. Unless there is a reporting error...he has the smallest hands for a massive guy.

How far is he sliding? Did I hear something about he might have sustained an injury at the combine?

Anyway, if he slides to 20 I'd take him over JPJ without thinking (assuming JPJ is there of course). I so prefer Fashanu to Mims or Guyton.

And I know "premium position" but I would take JPJ over either Mims or Guyton without much thought either.

I'm just going to reiterate that I'm OK with Frazier versus JPJ if you absolutely have someone at 20 that you really want, but that for me this draft comes down to getting one of JPJ or Frazier so if you opt out in round 1 you better do whatever to get Frazier.

 

[Ulf5]

I don't see a lot of analytics for offensive linemen, so I thought I'd share. Comparing the 1st round picks of the last few years. Not sure how insightful this is but cool to look at regardless.

TPS=True Pass Sets

View attachment 843115

Mims sucks!!!

 

[Peat]

The way I see it is that you measure premium position by what the premium on that's guy's position is once he's off his rookie contract.

Center is the only position jousting with RB for worst paid, so it's about the least premium position possible.

 

[EVGENIMERLIN]

How far is he sliding? Did I hear something about he might have sustained an injury at the combine?

Anyway, if he slides to 20 I'd take him over JPJ without thinking (assuming JPJ is there of course). I so prefer Fashanu to Mims or Guyton.

And I know "premium position" but I would take JPJ over either Mims or Guyton without much thought either.

I'm just going to reiterate that I'm OK with Frazier versus JPJ if you absolutely have someone at 20 that you really want, but that for me this draft comes down to getting one of JPJ or Frazier so if you opt out in round 1 you better do whatever to get Frazier.

This is my stance as well. I’m cool with taking an OT at #20 especially if Fashanau and Latham slide (I’m also high on Mims), but then you 200% have to move up to be able to snag Frazier in the early second which is hoping he is still there on day 2

 

[Goalie_Bob]

Mims sucks!!!

Until I understand what the data is telling me I can't make a determination on anybody. Like what is TPS Rate, what is TPS Fresh, what is All Fresh?

 

[T1K]

Connor Williams is still a free agent. Maybe they can sign him and make do with a patch-work job at center until he’s ready? I’d rather target WR and OT early in the draft over C. I wouldn’t be upset if they ended up taking a C at 20, but it just strikes me as a low upside move.

 

[Rave7215]

Until I understand what the data is telling me I can't make a determination on anybody. Like what is TPS Rate, what is TPS Fresh, what is All Fresh?

The only thing I can take away from this, not knowing what most of this means other than the colors, is that Mims has such a low number of blocks compared to everyone except Guyton that it's not really enough of a sample size to accurately compare to the others. E.G. He's Raw as hell, which everyone knows already

 

[Ulf5]

Until I understand what the data is telling me I can't make a determination on anybody. Like what is TPS Rate, what is TPS Fresh, what is All Fresh?

I'm just jagging around mostly, but looking at the low true pass set grade.

Connor Williams is still a free agent. Maybe they can sign him and make do with a patch-work job at center until he’s ready? I’d rather target WR and OT early in the draft over C. I wouldn’t be upset if they ended up taking a C at 20, but it just strikes me as a low upside move.

His agent said a couple weeks ago he won't be signing with anyone anytime soon. Don't think the latest medical check-up was good.

 

[Ulf5]

This is my stance as well. I’m cool with taking an OT at #20 especially if Fashanau and Latham slide (I’m also high on Mims), but then you 200% have to move up to be able to snag Frazier in the early second which is hoping he is still there on day 2

I've seen the mentions that JPJ, Barton and Frazier are the best of the Center prospects.
Are Van Pran-Granger and the FLA. C they reportedly have showed interest in 100% not day 1 starters?
If there's any chance at all VPG could start immediately, it would open up their draft strategy tremendously.

 

[Peat]

Until I understand what the data is telling me I can't make a determination on anybody. Like what is TPS Rate, what is TPS Fresh, what is All Fresh?

Presh, not Fresh. Assume it's pressure.

Also assume that TPS rate is how many of their snaps were True Passing Sets.

So assuming I'm correct that means Amarius Mims had 104 True Pass Sets, which represents 26% of his offensive snaps, and he had a PFF grade of 68.7 on them. He allowed pressure on 5.1% of the True Pass Sets (so, what, 21 pressures there?) and 1.6 of all Snaps.

 

[Arkadiusz]

Also re Penix -

Apparently his stats under pressure are freaky. About as good a QB as college football has seen at not taking sacks or wasting the ball under pressure since people started measuring these sorts of stats... but also apparently struggles when forced to play outside the pocket. Weird mix.

It does really feel like a year where there'll be a few high profile busts and a great QB found in rounds 3-4.

Albert Breer was on local talk radio this AM in Boston and had an interesting take, he likened Penix to a 3- point shooting specialist. Throws a great long ball down field but struggles with the short and mid-range stuff which might partially explain the stats...

 

[Night Shift]

29 screeds a day about how hopeless life is as long as Mike Tomlin is the head coach?

I guess about the same as some of us "survive" the off season kool aid some of you feed yourselves, "Clown learned from his mistakes, next year will be different!"

Doesn't affect us you can't see the problem. We just think it's funny. Wilson or Fields isn't moving any needle. I promise.

 

[WickedWrister]

Until I understand what the data is telling me I can't make a determination on anybody. Like what is TPS Rate, what is TPS Fresh, what is All Fresh?

From what I understand, TPS (True Pass Set) just removes all the run plays, quick screens or plays that have <4 rushers (so like prevent defense) to give a sample of how a player did on true pass blocking reps.

TPS Rate I think is is just % of offensive snaps that resulted in a true pass set for that player.

@Peat doing a better job of explaining it than I am.

 

[Peat]

I've seen the mentions that JPJ, Barton and Frazier are the best of the Center prospects.
Are Van Pran-Granger and the FLA. C they reportedly have showed interest in 100% not day 1 starters?
If there's any chance at all VPG could start immediately, it would open up their draft strategy tremendously.

Van Pran has the potential to start pretty quick. Kinglsey Eguakun, if that's the Florida C we're talking about, is more likely to not make a roster than starter early according to what I'm reading.

Van Pran is an odd one to me. He's kind of got forgot about in all the excitement about JPJ/Barton/Frazier. On the one hand, it's kind of not to see why. He's sub-300 lbs, sub 32 inch arms. He lacks the size and strength of guys like JPJ/Barton/Frazier. He's quick and agile, but not stupidly so, and he didn't do the explosiveness testing which is kind of a giveaway.

But he's experienced and pretty ready. His floor seems in line with the other guys, even if his ceiling seems less there.

Although fwiw, Lance Zierlein on NFL.com really likes the guy. Likes him more than Frazier.

My one thing with thinking "oh hey, SvP is there as a back-up option" is he's the only one. Is the team willing to say "I know everyone think he's a reach, he's the only starting C left so we're taking him in the 2nd"? Is the team willing to say "we'll take SvP in the 3rd but we're not reaching and we'll figure it out if we miss on him"? Without a yes to one of those, I don't think he can be part of the strategy.

I should also check whether they've checked on Bortolini. Fantastic RAS numbers, G/C versatility, might be more of a project but intriguing.

Albert Breer was on local talk radio this AM in Boston and had an interesting take, he likened Penix to a 3- point shooting specialist. Throws a great long ball down field but struggles with the short and mid-range stuff which might partially explain the stats...

Huh, interesting. Don't see that every day (although it kind of sounds like early Rudolph).

 

[Goalie_Bob]

We are closing in on the 119th pick, Steelers 4th round pick, in the HFBoards NFL Mock and these are the players we have picked so far:

20. Jackson Powers-Johnson, C, Oregon
51. Kamari Lassiter, CB, Georgia
84. Jalen McMillan, WR, Washington
98. Blake Fisher, T, Notre Dame

These are the top players available at this time:

QB: Spencer Rattler, Michael Pratt, Jordan Travis
RB: Braelon Allen, Isaac Guerendo
WR: Malik Washington, Luke McCaffrey
DL: Leonard Taylor, McKinnley Jackson, Gabe Hall
LB: Trevin Wallace
CB: DJ James, Elijah Jones, Kamal Hadden
S: Dadrion Taylor-Demerson, Sione Vaki, Kitan Oladapo

My thought would be to go DL or Safety at this pick. The Steelers don't have a 5th round pick so the next pick isn't until Pick 178 and then they only have one pick left at 195. So after this pick it is only two 6th round picks left for the black and gold.

 

[Pens1566]

Vaki would be my pick. From what I saw of him, he's just insane.

 

[Ulf5]

Connor Williams is still a free agent. Maybe they can sign him and make do with a patch-work job at center until he’s ready? I’d rather target WR and OT early in the draft over C. I wouldn’t be upset if they ended up taking a C at 20, but it just strikes me as a low upside move.

Connor Williams’ knee injury confirmed to be "pretty significant"

Williams’ agent, Drew Rosenhaus, tells WSVN that the center is focused on his medical situation and will not be signing with the Dolphins or any team any time soon.

www.thephinsider.com

 

[T1K]

Connor Williams’ knee injury confirmed to be "pretty significant"

Williams’ agent, Drew Rosenhaus, tells WSVN that the center is focused on his medical situation and will not be signing with the Dolphins or any team any time soon.

www.thephinsider.com

Bummer, that’s not very encouraging.

 

[WickedWrister]

We are closing in on the 119th pick, Steelers 4th round pick, in the HFBoards NFL Mock and these are the players we have picked so far:

20. Jackson Powers-Johnson, C, Oregon
51. Kamari Lassiter, CB, Georgia
84. Jalen McMillan, WR, Washington
98. Blake Fisher, T, Notre Dame

These are the top players available at this time:

QB: Spencer Rattler, Michael Pratt, Jordan Travis
RB: Braelon Allen, Isaac Guerendo
WR: Malik Washington, Luke McCaffrey
DL: Leonard Taylor, McKinnley Jackson, Gabe Hall
LB: Trevin Wallace
CB: DJ James, Elijah Jones, Kamal Hadden
S: Dadrion Taylor-Demerson, Sione Vaki, Kitan Oladapo

My thought would be to go DL or Safety at this pick. The Steelers don't have a 5th round pick so the next pick isn't until Pick 178 and then they only have one pick left at 195. So after this pick it is only two 6th round picks left for the black and gold.

Don't really know too much about the guys left available but agree we could be going DL with this pick so I'd vote for one of them.

I'm curious, if it's easy to look up, where did the two WR's Xavier Legette and Malachi Corley go in your mock?

 

[JTG]

Even Jason Kelce thinks C is the easiest position to play haha. Does make a good point about it being mentally tough and having to know assignments and protection schemes.

Yeah it's easy as a HOFer. We just watched some of the worst center play in the league over the last 5 years. I beg to differ with Kelce's assessment. Once the center of the line collapses, it's all over. Once a C is snapping balls all over the place, it's over.

I'll die on this hill. I'd actually move up for JPJ if they think he's immediately a top 5 center and don't even think twice.