OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: New Quarter Backs for the Handball team!

[Captain Hook]

Albert Breer was on local talk radio this AM in Boston and had an interesting take, he likened Penix to a 3- point shooting specialist. Throws a great long ball down field but struggles with the short and mid-range stuff which might partially explain the stats...

That's an interesting analogy.

Penix's skill set isn't for everybody, but you know who absolutely loves him? Our old friend BA, which is like the least surprising thing ever,

I love him because he does things I love to do," Arians said about Penix to the Tampa Bay Times Monday.

"He puts it up the field. He’s as accurate on throws up the field as anyone I’ve seen in 15 years.

https://www.foxsports.com/stories/nfl/ex-buccaneers-hc-bruce-arians-i-love-washington-qb-michael-penix

I've grown to love BA over the years. He'll never change for better or worse. He's always going to be the type that just wants his QB chucking it deep as much as possible. It's probably not great for the long-term health of the QB to stand in there and take the hits to deliver those balls, but again, he's always been the type that truly doesn't live in his fears, and I appreciate that about him.

 

[JTG]

Miami signed Aaron Brewer but I think Chicago and Tampa could certainly take one. Fortunately the Bears don't pick until #75 after their two early firsts. Cowboys lost Biadasz to Washington.

We pick ahead of all those teams in the 2nd but yeah you can never rule out a trade up.

I could legitimately see them drafting a QB at 1 and JPJ at 9. Have the same QB-C duo for the next 15 years.

 

[WickedWrister]

I could legitimately see them drafting a QB at 1 and JPJ at 9. Have the same QB-C duo for the next 15 years.

I don't think a center has ever been drafted that high before, at least in the modern era. Maybe someone was as a guard before moving to C, but I don't know.

I admit I don't know the Bears team needs that well but I've seen a lot of mocks with them taking Odunze at 9. Or the edge rusher Jared Verse.

 

[T1K]

I could legitimately see them drafting a QB at 1 and JPJ at 9. Have the same QB-C duo for the next 15 years.

They’d trade down from 9 if they want JPJ that badly

 

[Peat]

Assuming this site is accurate and I'm not missing a guy somewhere, a Centre hasn't been taken in the top 10 since 1968. Top 15 since 1993.

If JPJ is the generational all-time Center prospect who breaks that, this is the first I've heard of it.

And if people aren't talking about it at this point, it's because he's 99.9% not.

Quite a few, according to what I have read. We are probably the most needed. Chicago, Miami, Tampa, and Pittsburgh are the 4 immediate off the top of my head.

I wouldn't draft Van Pran. I don't see a whole lot of difference between him and Kendrick Green. I'd rather us take a big, stout C that can hold up in the AFC North.

I'm for taking any guy at 20...I'm not tied to C, but I will be very shocked if JPJ is available at 20 that he's not the best player there.

I'm skeptical of SvP but his athletic profile is not that different from Pouncey in terms of height/weight and it's like Linderbaum is that big stout C either. Kendrick Green was a stouter heavier guy who benched more than Linderbaum.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Assuming this site is accurate and I'm not missing a guy somewhere, a Centre hasn't been taken in the top 10 since 1968. Top 15 since 1993.

If JPJ is the generational all-time Center prospect who breaks that, this is the first I've heard of it.

And if people aren't talking about it at this point, it's because he's 99.9% not.



I'm skeptical of SvP but his athletic profile is not that different from Pouncey in terms of height/weight and it's like Linderbaum is that big stout C either. Kendrick Green was a stouter heavier guy who benched more than Linderbaum.

I’ve followed the draft since I was a kid and C has never been a high value position, even when prospects get big hype.

The three most hyped C in the last 20 years were Mack, Mangold and Pouncey.

None of them went higher than 18 (Pouncey) with Mack going 21 or so and Mangold was 29.

JPJ definitely hasn’t gotten the hype those three did, but Tomlin did take a C relatively high once with Pouncey if ppl are looking for reasons why they could take JPJ at 20.

 

[Peat]

I’ve followed the draft since I was a kid and C has never been a high value position, even when prospects get big hype.

The three most hyped C in the last 20 years were Mack, Mangold and Pouncey.

None of them went higher than 18 (Pouncey) with Mack going 21 or so and Mangold was 29.

JPJ definitely hasn’t gotten the hype those three did, but Tomlin did take a C relatively high once with Pouncey if ppl are looking for reasons why they could take JPJ at 20.

Oh yeah, I can absolutely see the Steelers taking JPJ at 20. That bit was mostly aimed at the idea that maybe the Bears would like JPJ at 9.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Oh yeah, I can absolutely see the Steelers taking JPJ at 20. That bit was mostly aimed at the idea that maybe the Bears would like JPJ at 9.

No I definitely got your point and you added even more validity to how C is considered a low value position.

I didn’t fully agree with the notion given how we saw Cole wreck the line last season.

However when I went back and looked at a ten year span teams were getting way more value after round 1 finding good C.

So the facts do seem to align with the long held idea you shouldn’t draft a C in round 1.

 

[WickedWrister]

Kozora making a strong argument for why the Steelers could take an ILB in the 3rd or 4th round.

The Steelers Are Poised To Draft An Inside Linebacker - Here's Why

The Pittsburgh Steelers are going to draft an inside linebacker. When and who, I can’t tell you. But based on history, inside linebackers coach Aaron Curry is going to have a rookie to work with this season. Curry has been a busy man during this Pro Day circuit, attending three Pro Days to scout...

steelersdepot.com

 

[MrBrightside]

Kozora making a strong argument for why the Steelers could take an ILB in the 3rd or 4th round.

The Steelers Are Poised To Draft An Inside Linebacker - Here's Why

The Pittsburgh Steelers are going to draft an inside linebacker. When and who, I can’t tell you. But based on history, inside linebackers coach Aaron Curry is going to have a rookie to work with this season. Curry has been a busy man during this Pro Day circuit, attending three Pro Days to scout...

steelersdepot.com

They do need one as there’s basically nothing after Queen and Roberts (assuming Holcomb isn’t playing this year) - but hard to see them taking that spot over the more immediate needs.

 

[Andy99]

No I definitely got your point and you added even more validity to how C is considered a low value position.

I didn’t fully agree with the notion given how we saw Cole wreck the line last season.

However when I went back and looked at a ten year span teams were getting way more value after round 1 finding good C.

So the facts do seem to align with the long held idea you shouldn’t draft a C in round 1.

Yeah, they need too many positions so I think it’s in their best interest to see if they can interest another team in trading up to 20 and move down into second round, where they could get get three top notch players…

 

[Ulf5]

Yeah, they need to many positions so I think it’s in their best interest to see if they can interest another team in trading up to 20 and move down into second round, where they could get get three top notch players…

Not only would I trade back from 20, I would use some of next year's draft capital to move up one of the 3rds. Tons of cap space next year. Get the higher end young guys this year to fill the holes. Add as needed next year with restructures and open cap.

 

[Peat]

No I definitely got your point and you added even more validity to how C is considered a low value position.

I didn’t fully agree with the notion given how we saw Cole wreck the line last season.

However when I went back and looked at a ten year span teams were getting way more value after round 1 finding good C.

So the facts do seem to align with the long held idea you shouldn’t draft a C in round 1.

I'm not sure how I feel about how the NFL values the position either.

My guess is they feel like elite centers don't make enough of a difference compared to good ones. That getting by with just a decent center is absolutely fine.

That the Steelers managed to blow getting a guy two times in a row... well, I dunno how many other teams do that.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

They do need one as there’s basically nothing after Queen and Roberts (assuming Holcomb isn’t playing this year) - but hard to see them taking that spot over the more immediate needs.

They still have Robinson. I could see them bringing in philps a fromer 3rd round pick from lsu. Jack can be brought back after the draft maybe a flyer on shaq they have to many needs and not enough picks

Not only would I trade back from 20, I would use some of next year's draft capital to move up one of the 3rds. Tons of cap space next year. Get the higher end young guys this year to fill the holes. Add as needed next year with restructures and open cap.

Why they aren’t a superbowl contender. The goal is to win a playoff game no need to spend future capital and cap space

 

[JTG]

Assuming this site is accurate and I'm not missing a guy somewhere, a Centre hasn't been taken in the top 10 since 1968. Top 15 since 1993.

If JPJ is the generational all-time Center prospect who breaks that, this is the first I've heard of it.

And if people aren't talking about it at this point, it's because he's 99.9% not.



I'm skeptical of SvP but his athletic profile is not that different from Pouncey in terms of height/weight and it's like Linderbaum is that big stout C either. Kendrick Green was a stouter heavier guy who benched more than Linderbaum.

SVP can't anchor. When he isn't playing in Georgia, I think he's going to get exposed. Weight and strength for an OL is very secondary to technique - Linderbaum is the perfect example of it. He just knows how to use leverage and physics to take down bigger guys. Frazier's profile reads much like Linderbaum's. Pouncey was a first round IOL like JPJ is for the entire draft process his draft year. SVP is a mid-late round pick.

JPJ isn't generational necessarily, but he's been one of the best C's in college for two years. He's big, strong, and fast. He has followed a very similar trajectory in college to Linderbaum. He immediately steps in and plays at a high level, I think. There are at least 5 teams looking for a C...I will actually be shocked if he doesn't set the new standard for how high a C gets drafted.

 

[Ulf5]

They still have Robinson. I could see them bringing in philps a fromer 3rd round pick from lsu. Jack can be brought back after the draft maybe a flyer on shaq they have to many needs and not enough picks


Why they aren’t a superbowl contender. The goal is to win a playoff game no need to spend future capital and cap space

Trading back from 20 should net them another 3rd or 4th. Using a pick from next season to get a better pick on this seasons 2nd 3rd isn't going to make much of a difference next year. Especially with all the remaining holes this year. And especially with all the cap next year to patch holes.

 

[xlm34]

I’d be totally fine with them passing on JPJ for a tackle in round one and then going after someone in the Van Pran/Limmer/Bortolini tier later in the draft. I actually think I’d prefer that approach although I ultimately wouldn’t be mad if they went JPJ round one.

You’re only as strong as your weakest link on the line and I think JPJ in round one all but guarantees Moore is the starter at LT next year. I’ve said it before but I think Mims/Van Pran gives you a better overall line next year than JPJ + keeping Moore at tackle.

I just really hate the corner they backed themselves into at Center.

 

[Peat]

SVP can't anchor. When he isn't playing in Georgia, I think he's going to get exposed. Weight and strength for an OL is very secondary to technique - Linderbaum is the perfect example of it. He just knows how to use leverage and physics to take down bigger guys. Frazier's profile reads much like Linderbaum's. Pouncey was a first round IOL like JPJ is for the entire draft process his draft year. SVP is a mid-late round pick.

JPJ isn't generational necessarily, but he's been one of the best C's in college for two years. He's big, strong, and fast. He has followed a very similar trajectory in college to Linderbaum. He immediately steps in and plays at a high level, I think. There are at least 5 teams looking for a C...I will actually be shocked if he doesn't set the new standard for how high a C gets drafted.

JPJ wasn't a starting C in '22. He was a reserve guard who got moved around. He's a one year starter. Wasn't a first round IOL the entire draft process either. Didn't even make The Athletic's consensus big board in December and was only 47th on January 23rd. These bits are just not true.

As for the rest... we'll see, but I've seen nobody else express such skepticism over SvP's anchor (consistency issues, yeah, but not "can't anchor") and the recent history says the NFL is just nowhere near as horny for Cs as you are.

 

[Peat]

I’d be totally fine with them passing on JPJ for a tackle in round one and then going after someone in the Van Pran/Limmer/Bortolini tier later in the draft. I actually think I’d prefer that approach although I ultimately wouldn’t be mad if they went JPJ round one.

You’re only as strong as your weakest link on the line and I think JPJ in round one all but guarantees Moore is the starter at LT next year. I’ve said it before but I think Mims/Van Pran gives you a better overall line next year than JPJ + keeping Moore at tackle.

I just really hate the corner they backed themselves into at Center.

I dunno that Mims + later C doesn't give you Moore starting anyway.

 

[xlm34]

I dunno that Mims + later C doesn't give you Moore starting anyway.

All signs point to them loving Moore way more than we would like so you may be right. I’d be pretty confident that Mims could start immediately though

 

[Peat]

All signs point to them loving Moore way more than we would like so you may be right. I’d be pretty confident that Mims could start immediately though

Could and would are two different beasts to be Captain Obvious.

To me, it's not even so much about whether Mims would be ready as it is Tomlin talking about how successful the team was dripping rookies into the line-up to avoid them getting burnt out. That's quite sane as an approach, but it doesn't bode well for guys coming right in and playing all the snaps at physically demanding positions.

I think they'd do it at Center because they're so out of options but Tackle, well, we know they've got that obvious out they do indeed love.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Yeah, they need too many positions so I think it’s in their best interest to see if they can interest another team in trading up to 20 and move down into second round, where they could get get three top notch players…

I honestly could get behind mostly anything they do, even trading up, taking a WR, CB. Etc.

My preference is to fix the o-line, but we’ll see.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

Trading back from 20 should net them another 3rd or 4th. Using a pick from next season to get a better pick on this seasons 2nd 3rd isn't going to make much of a difference next year. Especially with all the remaining holes this year. And especially with all the cap next year to patch holes.

But why they aren’t going to fix all the holes in 1 season. They will win 11 games as is right now and hopefully a playoff game but there’s no Super Bowl in this transition rebuild

 

[JTG]

JPJ wasn't a starting C in '22. He was a reserve guard who got moved around. He's a one year starter. Wasn't a first round IOL the entire draft process either. Didn't even make The Athletic's consensus big board in December and was only 47th on January 23rd. These bits are just not true.

As for the rest... we'll see, but I've seen nobody else express such skepticism over SvP's anchor (consistency issues, yeah, but not "can't anchor") and the recent history says the NFL is just nowhere near as horny for Cs as you are.

Because Oregon OL is stacked. He was a 4-star. You have to put your time in at Oregon. He has graded out as a top 5 basically for the duration of this season and last in the snaps he played. He didn't just burst on the scene even though it looks like it.

I wouldn't be willing to let value get in the way of what was probably our biggest weakness offensively last year - the center getting blown up and the line collapsing; the ball getting snapped anywhere but at the QB. In my view, this line gets a C and it is actually upgrading 5 positions. To me, that's value.

The league is going to be horny for C's because 10 teams could use one and the ones coming out of college aren't good. I think SVP is an average college C. I'd much rather take a guy like Nugent if we are going on the smaller side. SVP weighed in at the combine at 298.

 

[JTG]

I honestly could get behind mostly anything they do, even trading up, taking a WR, CB. Etc.

My preference is to fix the o-line, but we’ll see.

I'm right there with you. I think sitting here, I'd be trying to maximize volume because of the depth of the draft. But if a guy we really like drops to 10-15 (Nabers)...I'd hope they'd be aggressive and go get him.