The owners are offering a partnership

[Cole Caulifield]

That will come as huge surprise to business people everywhere (and their bankers).

If projections were accurate all the time, no business would ever go bankrupt, everyone playing stock markets would be multi-millionaires, etc

Obviously projections can't account for every possible variables.

I've followed a class on this in relation to how a plant can use projections to determine their stocks, materials required, production, etc. It's obvious that such models exist for the stock markets and business people, banks, etc. But do you agree that every model can be contested, none can be fully trusted.

You never know when you'll have another 2000 bug, war, recession, etc. Such things can't always be taken into account. Humans are unpredictable.

As i've said, projections can be an useful tool in some given circumstances where all variables can be nailed down. But the problem is it's not that easy. Projections are not something you can rely on with 100% accuracy, no businessman do that if they want to get rich.

 

[Greschner4]

I highly doubt it. The type of projections needed to manufacture new numbers under a new CBA aren't exactly the same as projections in businesses that have less variables to deal with. And as another poster pointed out, the "business" projections you speak of are often wrong.

And as I've said a couple times now, if the NHLPA sincerely believes in their projections then they should have no problems guaranteeing the results with an escrow fund. I'd rate the chances of them guaranteeing those numbers at 0%.

Nice try though.

Just wait ... a few minutes from now Wetcoast will respond and his final statement will be "Nice try though."

It's like clockwork.

 

[Cole Caulifield]

Just wait ... a few minutes from now Wetcoast will respond and his final statement will be "Nice try though."

It's like clockwork.

He's still more articulated than 95% of the posters here and I had fun arguing with him as he didn't insult me and didn't lose his temper. I happen to profundly disagree with him on various issues but I needed to kill time this afternoon before my class and I had fun, which is all that matters to me when I spend time on this board.

In the same spirit I often read Eklund, and while I don't believe him, I thought it was fun reading him.

 

[Ismellofhockey]

I promise to split profits with you after we take our share first. Oh I forgot to tell you the profits we were to share never reached that agreed level so you get nothing .

Nothing except the 55% of league revenues you get with your salaries.

 

[Greschner4]

He's still more articulated than 95% of the posters here and I had fun arguing with him as he didn't insult me and didn't lose his temper. I happen to profundly disagree with him on various issues but I needed to kill time this afternoon before my class and I had fun, which is all that matters to me when I spend time on this board.

In the same spirit I often read Eklund, and while I don't believe him, I thought it was fun reading him.

95%'s a little high, but he does make some good points.

 

[Cole Caulifield]

The owners are not offering a partnership.

Partnership is predicated upon full and open disclosure predicated upon utmost good faith. The owners are not even partners with each other.

I missed this point you made earlier.

It's true that it's not a real partnership. The players get some of the advantages of being in one, and some disadvantages. I think it balances well though.

 

[mr gib]

The profit sharing of 50-50, the assurance of at least 53% of revenues, the elimination of every inflationary tools and the joint players-owners committee on league business and game related issues make this offer a partnership.

The players have to realize that the glory days of signing for huge long term deals while not having to give a full constant effort for the complete duration of the schedule without giving a damn about the fans, their franchise, their teamates and the health of the league as a whole are over.

The fact the players have refused this offer tells me that they haven't got the balls to get in this with the owners. They'd have their say in how to make the game more marketable, more profitable and overall more enticing to fans everywhere. They'd have to work hard to make up for their losses. They'd have to commit themselves if they signed this offer.

But obviously the players aren't ready for this. They want everything, but don't want to take any responsabilities. Damphousse's and other player's declarations over the duration of this lockout prove my point completely.

The players are cowards, selfish and are losing more and more everyday. And they're bringing down with them all the good people who have jobs because of the NHL. A big bunch of cry babies.

what?

 

[kenabnrmal]

I don't think anyone is disputing the fact that the owners got themselves into this mess. But with babies like Chelios, McCabe, Jason Smith, JR spouting off about onwership and how much Bettman suck instead of focusing on getting a deal done, then maybe I'd have more sympathy for the players. YOU GUYS MAKE MILLIONS FOR PLAYING A KIDS GAME!!!!

then you got hypocrite's like Laraque who said he doesn't believe in going to Europe and stealing another guy's job, signs with a Swedish team.

If they can afford to play there under a "cap" then they can still make their millions here, can't they?
I HOPE THESE PLAYERS SIT AND ROT IN EUROPE FOR 2 YEARS!!

Thanks for the distraction from an otherwise thought-provoking thread. No thread is complete without some manic pro-NHLer yelling about "millions to play a kid's game", no matter how irrelevant the outrage is.

 

[Cole Caulifield]

what?

Real good argument you made here. I'll think about it and come back to you. Thank you for your contribution.

I mean what is that supposed to mean ? English being my 2nd language I won't ever win prize for the way I write, but it's unfair to criticize me for this.

If you think my arguments aren't good, then smart ass one liner comments aren't the way to go.

 

[mackdogs*]

Only if you know nothing about what a partnership is.

Wow, what a rebuttal. Is that you Bob?

The players should be grateful the owners are offering anything that resembles a partnership. Or perhaps they should make the players pay for their own insurance, flights, equipment, per diems, arena rentals, franchising rights, etc, etc and nix guaranteed contracts. A better question here may be why should the owners offer a partnership of any kind? In case you haven't noticed they are the ones in charge here and have everything to lose.

 

[Greschner4]

Real good argument you made here. I'll think about it and come back to you. Thank you for your contribution.

I mean what is that supposed to mean ? English being my 2nd language I won't ever win prize for the way I write, but it's unfair to criticize me for this.

If you think my arguments aren't good, then smart ass one liner comments aren't the way to go.

Actually your argument was very good.

 

[Greschner4]

Wow, what a rebuttal. Is that you Bob?

The players should be grateful the owners are offering anything that resembles a partnership. Or perhaps they should make the players pay for their own insurance, flights, equipment, per diems, arena rentals, franchising rights, etc, etc and nix guaranteed contracts. A better question here may be why should the owners offer a partnership of any kind? In case you haven't noticed they are the ones in charge here and have everything to lose.

To anyone who has the remotest of clues, potentially unlimited profit sharing on top of capped base salaries make total compensation -- all that matters -- uncapped.

We'll know tomorrow probably whether the PA has the remotest of clues, but nothing they've done or said up 'til now gives much hope for optimism that they do.

 

[Cole Caulifield]

To anyone who has the remotest of clues, potentially unlimited profit sharing on top of capped base salaries make total compensation -- all that matters -- uncapped.

Exactly how I see it.

It seems to me that the problem is that the players don't believe in their work. When workers don't believe in what they do, they're not motivated to reach a deal or make it happen. It's sad that the players don't have more confidence in what they could do to make the NHL one of the major sport in North America.

Linden, Damphousse and co should get in this with the owners, try to find ways to make the league more marketable in the states without alienating the hardcore fans, and believe that the NHL is a great league, or that it could become a great one if they were interested in making it one of the best. Instead they are sitting there whining and crying about the goold old days never dying.

After the Rangers won the cup, it seemed to me like the NHL was soaring. I think there's more and more talent, that the expansion could become a more positive thing over the years but the players have to believe that too. And do what needs to be done so that they recuperate the lost ground. If they don't, then they'll never want to get into a simili-partnership with the NHL because they'll see themselves as the losers of this CBA.

I mean, all of us wouldn't be here if we didn't think hockey wasn't the greatest sport. Call me an optimist, a dreamer but I believe the NHL has huge untapped potential. HDTV, hockey being such a hard hitting, fast sport with such athletes capable of truly amazing things, there's got to be something there to make the NHL a great league.

It's sad the players won't even want to try, even for a mere 4 little years.

 

[Cole Caulifield]

I'll add something.

Westcoaster said in another thread that the owners were given the tools to be responsible and didn't use them. Let's accept that as the truth (I don't, but for argument's sake). Then this time around, it's the players who are given the tools to make money. They can sit on a joint comittee with the NHL to try to improve the state of the league, and if they succeed, they get 50% of the profits, doesn't get any better than this.

 

[Beukeboom Fan]

Exactly how I see it.

It seems to me that the problem is that the players don't believe in their work. When workers don't believe in what they do, they're not motivated to reach a deal or make it happen. It's sad that the players don't have more confidence in what they could do to make the NHL one of the major sport in North America.

Linden, Damphousse and co should get in this with the owners, try to find ways to make the league more marketable in the states without alienating the hardcore fans, and believe that the NHL is a great league, or that it could become a great one if they were interested in making it one of the best. Instead they are sitting there whining and crying about the goold old days never dying.

After the Rangers won the cup, it seemed to me like the NHL was soaring. I think there's more and more talent, that the expansion could become a more positive thing over the years but the players have to believe that too. And do what needs to be done so that they recuperate the lost ground. If they don't, then they'll never want to get into a simili-partnership with the NHL because they'll see themselves as the losers of this CBA.

I mean, all of us wouldn't be here if we didn't think hockey wasn't the greatest sport. Call me an optimist, a dreamer but I believe the NHL has huge untapped potential. HDTV, hockey being such a hard hitting, fast sport with such athletes capable of truly amazing things, there's got to be something there to make the NHL a great league.

It's sad the players won't even want to try, even for a mere 4 little years.

GREAT POST!! (Along with Greshner's original post as well).

Think about what the owners have offered. If the league becomes profitable (and it needs to profitable to be healthy over the long term), HALF of the net profits goes to the players after a very small per team base is met ($3.5MM would $105MM accross the NHL). Think about that - each team's ownership group get's to keep as much as about the 8th player the Detroit Red Wings from last year team (CuJo, Hasek, Lidstrom, Hatcher, Chelios, Yzerman, Shanahan, Lang all made more than that), and the they split anything over that with the players.

Then consider the long term options for the NHL. An increase in US nationwide interest could drive a real TV deal that makes this very possible. It's not going to happen overnight, but it's something that COULD definetely happen, especially with some minor changes to the game (call the DAMN RULES!).

 

[SOS]

You obviously have never been in business.

Oh yeah, you worked in hockey at the NHL level. What did you do again?