The owners are offering a partnership

[Cole Caulifield]

The profit sharing of 50-50, the assurance of at least 53% of revenues, the elimination of every inflationary tools and the joint players-owners committee on league business and game related issues make this offer a partnership.

The players have to realize that the glory days of signing for huge long term deals while not having to give a full constant effort for the complete duration of the schedule without giving a damn about the fans, their franchise, their teamates and the health of the league as a whole are over.

The fact the players have refused this offer tells me that they haven't got the balls to get in this with the owners. They'd have their say in how to make the game more marketable, more profitable and overall more enticing to fans everywhere. They'd have to work hard to make up for their losses. They'd have to commit themselves if they signed this offer.

But obviously the players aren't ready for this. They want everything, but don't want to take any responsabilities. Damphousse's and other player's declarations over the duration of this lockout prove my point completely.

The players are cowards, selfish and are losing more and more everyday. And they're bringing down with them all the good people who have jobs because of the NHL. A big bunch of cry babies.

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[Chileiceman]

Don't blame it on the players. Blame it on Saskin and Goodenow.
They're to chicken to put in on a vote for all the players because they think the players would actually want to come back to the league and make their millions instead of their measly salarys wherever their playing now.
Who would of thunk it.

 

[Beukeboom Fan]

If it were a true partnership amoung equals, why is it that only the players making any concessions? The real cowards here are management and their supporters. the supporters for believing everything on mass that they owners spit out and management for refusing to bargain in good faith .

You need to get some help.

On what planet is an offer to split profits 50/50 (after the owners makes something like an average of $3.5M per team) not a concession?

 

[Cole Caulifield]

Don't blame it on the players. Blame it on Saskin and Goodenow.
They're to chicken to put in on a vote for all the players because they think the players would actually want to come back to the league and make their millions instead of their measly salarys wherever their playing now.
Who would of thunk it.

You're right, I meant the NHLPA, Linden, Damphousse, Goodenow, etc

 

[monster_bertuzzi]

If it were a true partnership amoung equals, why is it that only the players making any concessions? The real cowards here are management and their supporters. the supporters for believing everything on mass that they owners spit out and management for refusing to bargain in good faith .

Yes, shame on the owners for wanting to fix a league that lost hundreds of millions of dollars!

 

[Wetcoaster]

The profit sharing of 50-50, the assurance of at least 53% of revenues, the elimination of every inflationary tools and the joint players-owners committee on league business and game related issues make this offer a partnership.

The players have to realize that the glory days of signing for huge long term deals while not having to give a full constant effort for the complete duration of the schedule without giving a damn about the fans, their franchise, their teamates and the health of the league as a whole are over.

The fact the players have refused this offer tells me that they haven't got the balls to get in this with the owners. They'd have their say in how to make the game more marketable, more profitable and overall more enticing to fans everywhere. They'd have to work hard to make up for their losses. They'd have to commit themselves if they signed this offer.

But obviously the players aren't ready for this. They want everything, but don't want to take any responsabilities. Damphousse's and other player's declarations over the duration of this lockout prove my point completely.

The players are cowards, selfish and are losing more and more everyday. And they're bringing down with them all the good people who have jobs because of the NHL. A big bunch of cry babies.

The owners are not offering a partnership.

Partnership is predicated upon full and open disclosure predicated upon utmost good faith. The owners are not even partners with each other.

 

[Wetcoaster]

Don't blame it on the players. Blame it on Saskin and Goodenow.
They're to chicken to put in on a vote for all the players because they think the players would actually want to come back to the league and make their millions instead of their measly salarys wherever their playing now.
Who would of thunk it.

There is nothing to vote on - another set of concept from the owners. Big on rhetoric and woefully short on details.

 

[Greschner4]

The owners are not offering a partnership.

Partnership is predicated upon full and open disclosure predicated upon utmost good faith. The owners are not even partners with each other.

The owners' financial relationship with each other has absolutely nothing to do with whether the owners, collectively, can be partners with their employees.

Keep drinking the Kool-Aid. Isn't your stomach a little sore by now?

 

[Beukeboom Fan]

The owners are not offering a partnership.

Partnership is predicated upon full and open disclosure predicated upon utmost good faith. The owners are not even partners with each other.

Included in the latest CBA offer was an annual audit by a mutually chosen big 6 accounting firm, with VERY stiff penalties for any team that tries to "cook the books".

 

[mackdogs*]

Included in the latest CBA offer was an annual audit by a mutually chosen big 6 accounting firm, with VERY stiff penalties for any team that tries to "cook the books".

PA supporters seem to be glossing over this fact or are just writing it off entirely. Sure looks like a legitimate partnership to me.

 

[Wetcoaster]

Included in the latest CBA offer was an annual audit by a mutually chosen big 6 accounting firm, with VERY stiff penalties for any team that tries to "cook the books".

An audit of what???? The URO's as Levitt offered?

How about we choose Arthur Andersen? - look how well that turned out for Levitt when he was Cair of the SEC.

 

[Cole Caulifield]

An audit of what???? The URO's as Levitt offered?

How about we choose Arthur Andersen? - look how well that turned out for Levitt when he was Cair of the SEC.

That probably remains to be negotiated. But the players have to get on the same page as the owners on the big philosophical issues before ironing out the details. I mentionned this to you in another thread. No need to make a detailed offer if the players haven't decided they wanted a partnership.

 

[Morbo]

I find the Kool-Aid comments coming from pro-owner types quite hilarious.

Bettman has you guys on a string.

 

[Wetcoaster]

The owners' financial relationship with each other has absolutely nothing to do with whether the owners, collectively, can be partners with their employees.

Keep drinking the Kool-Aid. Isn't your stomach a little sore by now?

You miss the point. You want to be a partner with another party full disclosure and aduty of good faith are the preconditions.

The NHL owers do not operate that way - perhaps you missed the various delicts by the owners over the years? Therefore no partnership.

 

[Wetcoaster]

That probably remains to be negotiated. But the players have to get on the same page as the owners on the big philosophical issues before ironing out the details. I mentionned this to you in another thread. No need to make a detailed offer if the players haven't decided they wanted a partnership.

if you want to be partners then you need full disclosure - not concepts and details to be ironed out later. The details are the deal.

 

[Cole Caulifield]

You miss the point. You want to be a partner with another party full disclosure and aduty of good faith are the preconditions.

The NHL owers do not operate that way - perhaps you missed the various delicts by the owners over the years? Therefore no partnership.

JOINT AUDIT CONTROLS FOR CALCULATION OF CLUB REVENUES

-- Each year's accounting will be performed by an independent accounting firm jointly selected by the NHL and the NHLPA.

They both decide who, how and when. As it's open for debate.

The players don't even want to negotiate that. First negotiate this with the owners, then if the negotiations on that point aren't fruitful, you can say you don't agree with how revenues would be accounted for. Not before...

 

[Greschner4]

Included in the latest CBA offer was an annual audit by a mutually chosen big 6 accounting firm, with VERY stiff penalties for any team that tries to "cook the books".

I agree totally with you on just about everything in this, but I don't think $2M and one #1 is that stiff a penalty. A cheapskate could try to hide $20M or more and the $2M wouldn't be that big a deal to him given the possible gain. And there are some owners who wouldn't give a lick about a #1 -- hell,a real cheapo might think, it'd just be one less guy to pay -- with the chance to hide $20M or more.

Like everything in this though, it's negotiable and I'm sure the owners as a whole would jack up the penalties to get a deal.

 

[Cole Caulifield]

I agree totally with you on just about everything in this, but I don't think $2M and one #1 is that stiff a penalty. A cheapskate could try to hide $20M or more and the $2M wouldn't be that big a deal to him given the possible gain. And there are some owners who wouldn't give a lick about a #1 -- hell,a real cheapo might think, it'd just be one less guy to pay -- with the chance to hide $20M or more.

Like everything in this though, it's negotiable and I'm sure the owners as a whole would jack up the penalties to get a deal.

But if you're caught, that's 2M$ + re-evaluation of the situation based on the hidden money. Or else it's just completely crazy.

 

[Wetcoaster]

JOINT AUDIT CONTROLS FOR CALCULATION OF CLUB REVENUES

-- Each year's accounting will be performed by an independent accounting firm jointly selected by the NHL and the NHLPA.

They both decide who, how and when. As it's open for debate.

The players don't even want to negotiate that. First negotiate this with the owners, then if the negotiations on that point aren't fruitful, you can say you don't agree with how revenues would be accounted for. Not before...

Joint audits of what precisely????

 

[Other Dave]

Yes, shame on the owners for wanting to fix a league that lost hundreds of millions of dollars!

How much money has "the league" made or lost over the term of the last CBA?

 

[Wetcoaster]

PA supporters seem to be glossing over this fact or are just writing it off entirely. Sure looks like a legitimate partnership to me.

Only if you know nothing about what a partnership is.

 

[Cole Caulifield]

if you want to be partners then you need full disclosure - not concepts and details to be ironed out later. The details are the deal.

I see where you are coming from with the details are the deal. It's true and I agree to a certain extent.

But this offer is not a formal deal offer. It's an offer to negotiate, a basic outline of what the NHL wants while also being a PR move, just like the NHLPA's last offer (the 24% salary reduction one). Who cares about all the NHLPA satistics at that point. If there remains profund philosophical differences there's no use putting so many details on paper.

As soon as the players accept a linkage to revenues then they can start the real negociations.

 

[Cole Caulifield]

Joint audits of what precisely????

Are you doing that on purpose or...

Maybe I'm not clear enough. THAT REMAINS TO BE NEGOTIATED.

There's nothing in the offer talking about what would be audited, or on how the Blackhawks package of luxury boxes (is that the word... damn my english suck) for 2-3 sports would be accounted for. What percentage of it would be associated to hockey, what percentage to basketball, or would it be altogether included in hockey operations.

Those are details, that I'm certain the NHL is willing to negotiate. But first, the NHLPA has to sit down with them and not get out of the meeting saying : huh-uh no deal possible.

 

[syc]

Well if my employers history was as dirty as the NHL owners then I would also be vary sceptical of any profit sharing deal. This was what the first decade in history the NHL owners got screwed instead of the players. My oh my what goes around comes around.

Tell the owners to take their 50% and go buy some google shares. The owners put themselves in this situation and now want to cry how poor they all are and how teams can't compete. Then WTF did you put so many teams down south? WTF did you pay guys like Holik and Yashin $10 million.

You made the bed now you have to sleep in it.

I hope the players hold out for 2 or 3 years so when the NHL does come back it won't have teams like Florida and Atlanta, and Pittsburg and a couple others.

The owners are fat greasy millionairs who have admitted to having no self control.

Boo Hoo I'll stick with the AHL for 3 years.....no problem.

 

[417]

Funny how Glen flippin' Healy says the NHL's profit sharing idea is a farce because the league hasn't made any profit in years, so he's basically giving the owners whole argument about establishing cost certainty merit...

What the NHLPA and apparently Glenn Healy don't understand is that what the NHL wants with this profit sharing idea is that they want the players to help them get back to the point where there making profit, and once that is accomplished, they can share the profit...

How is that not offering a partnership...