The Official Pierre "high five" Dorion Thread | Part II

[Micklebot]

Imo you're supposed to improve on your top six to push players down. That's what makes a deep team.

Well, that's ideal; push top 6 quality players into your bottom 6 by adding a better top 6 guy; it's win win, but not always feasible.

We've added (in essence) MacArthur, who should push Dzingel into the bottom 6, so that fits your desire. Improving the bottom 6 directly still helps the team though. Burrows likely pushes Pyatt to the 4th line, and Thompson really should be an improvement over Kelly.

I mean, if the Pens were able to add a great center like Turris without giving up Malkin or Crosby, it would be a great add, but wouldn't fit your model. Doesn't mean it's a bad move though.

 

[guyzeur]

So bad teams got better and great teams got worst?? Very insightful.

 

[trentmccleary]

I'm very thankful to have Dorion as GM. I was losing my mind and becoming disinterested under Bryan Murray. I don't understand the people complaining now, after he posted a better season in just about every possible way in his first year than Murray did in 8.

 

[Tuna99]

I'm very thankful to have Dorion as GM. I was losing my mind and becoming disinterested under Bryan Murray. I don't understand the people complaining now, after he posted a better season in just about every possible way in his first year than Murray did in 8.

In 9 seasons Murray had 11 total playoff wins. in 1 season Dorion has 11 total playoff wins.

Murray never got past round 2 and only once made it only to be swept by Pitt. Dorion made it to the SCF and also beat the champs. Came closer then any other team did this year

 

[YouGotAStuGoing]

In 9 seasons Murray had 11 total playoff wins. in 1 season Dorion has 11 total playoff wins.

Murray never got past round 2 and only once made it only to be swept by Pitt. Dorion made it to the SCF and also beat the champs. Came closer then any other team did this year

ECF and pushed the champs to 2OT in game 7, but the feeling remains. We finally seem like a team that has direction.

 

[DJB]

Dorion gets an F for this offseason.

 

[Upgrayedd]

In 9 seasons Murray had 11 total playoff wins. in 1 season Dorion has 11 total playoff wins.

Murray never got past round 2 and only once made it only to be swept by Pitt. Dorion made it to the SCF and also beat the champs. Came closer then any other team did this year

Dorion needs increased playing time for next season, as an aside id love to give him some high fives to the face for that burrows deal and im guessing that feeling will only increase over the next two seasons and or until whenever he has to add assets to get rid of him.

 

[Icelevel]

Not difficult to look better than a Murray managed team. Not to take all credit away from Pierre but I still don't think he is an above average gm if that.

 

[Tuna99]

Dorion needs increased playing time for next season, as an aside id love to give him some high fives to the face for that burrows deal and im guessing that feeling will only increase over the next two seasons and or until whenever he has to add assets to get rid of him.

I guess the Burrows goal against Detroit when there was angst in Ottawa to lock thier playoff spot with an injured EK means nothing now, not to mention he was on the ice for 4 of Ottawa's 5 OT goals and assisted on half of those is lost.

People would rather see Stalberg skate around getting nothing done because seeing an NHL player skate fast equals a tangible result in everyones mind. Seeing Burrows glued to the inside ice of Crosby for an entire shift is boring, it looks lazy, doesn;t look like he's doing much.

I'll count on Burrows coming through in the clutch again, and again because that's what he does.

 

[TheNewEra]

I guess the Burrows goal against Detroit when there was angst in Ottawa to lock thier playoff spot with an injured EK means nothing now, not to mention he was on the ice for 4 of Ottawa's 5 OT goals and assisted on half of those is lost.

People would rather see Stalberg skate around getting nothing done because seeing an NHL player skate fast equals a tangible result in everyones mind. Seeing Burrows glued to the inside ice of Crosby for an entire shift is boring, it looks lazy, doesn;t look like he's doing much.

I'll count on Burrows coming through in the clutch again, and again because that's what he does.

as a whole people dont have a problem with burrows the player

people have a problem with the price paid to get burrows (which they should) and have a problem with the extension given to burrows (has the potential to look bad, considering his age and the good chance that he will be getting most of his minutes with thompson and pyatt)

 

[YouGotAStuGoing]

as a whole people dont have a problem with burrows the player

people have a problem with the price paid to get burrows (which they should) and have a problem with the extension given to burrows (has the potential to look bad, considering his age and the good chance that he will be getting most of his minutes with thompson and pyatt)

It's hard to take a lot of these opinions seriously when they're based entirely on what-if thinking, though.I think most would agree that the perceived cost was too high. Dahlen is a pretty highly regarded prospect, relatively speaking. But the hyperbole is insane. It's like we traded a locked-and-loaded 30-goal scorer for a shambling husk of a player who falls apart when he's breathed on wrong.

 

[Tuna99]

as a whole people dont have a problem with burrows the player

people have a problem with the price paid to get burrows (which they should) and have a problem with the extension given to burrows (has the potential to look bad, considering his age and the good chance that he will be getting most of his minutes with thompson and pyatt)

What do they want? 11 points in 20 games regular season. Played a shut down roll against top players who did nothing during the playoffs - but people are in love with a player who has potential - potential to me is where the promise of Patrick Weircoche, Stefan Noessen being the next Corey Perry, Matt O'Connor being the next Ben Bishop - at some point what happens on your NHL ice surface matters more then what is happening on the ice of Swedish 2nd League team.

Burrows proved this season he was worth it, he'll prove it next season as well. I give credit to Dorion for having and developing Dahlen in 6 months to the point we can get a real playoff warrior for him.

In Context Hanzal who Minny paid a load for - had 13 points in 20 games (2 more then Burrows in the exact amount of games - Burrows scored 2 more goals) and Hanzal had 1 playoff point in 5 games - what about credting Dorion for finding Burrows and getting a player for cheap who had mroe impact then Hanzal did for his team - it's perspective.

it's impoissible as well to argue against the next great thing in Ottawa - Dahlen hasn't done squat but the fact that he had a great WJC gets everyone psyched out - Lazar was Captain of a goald winning WJC team, he didn't even get into Calgary's lineup in his 3rd pro season. Perspective is important here

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

It's hard to take a lot of these opinions seriously when they're based entirely on what-if thinking, though.I think most would agree that the perceived cost was too high. Dahlen is a pretty highly regarded prospect, relatively speaking. But the hyperbole is insane. It's like we traded a locked-and-loaded 30-goal scorer for a shambling husk of a player who falls apart when he's breathed on wrong.

hyperbole on the hyperbole

 

[TheNewEra]

What do they want? 11 points in 20 games regular season. Played a shut down roll against top players who did nothing during the playoffs - but people are in love with a player who has potential - potential to me is where the promise of Patrick Weircoche, Stefan Noessen being the next Corey Perry, Matt O'Connor being the next Ben Bishop - at some point what happens on your NHL ice surface matters more then what is happening on the ice of Swedish 2nd League team.

Burrows proved this season he was worth it, he'll prove it next season as well. I give credit to Dorion for having and developing Dahlen in 6 months to the point we can get a real playoff warrior for him.

In Context Hanzal who Minny paid a load for - had 13 points in 20 games (2 more then Burrows in the exact amount of games - Burrows scored 2 more goals) and Hanzal had 1 playoff point in 5 games - what about credting Dorion for finding Burrows and getting a player for cheap who had mroe impact then Hanzal did for his team - it's perspective.

it's impoissible as well to argue against the next great thing in Ottawa - Dahlen hasn't done squat but the fact that he had a great WJC gets everyone psyched out - Lazar was Captain of a goald winning WJC team, he didn't even get into Calgary's lineup in his 3rd pro season. Perspective is important here

sure perspective is definitely important lets try this

- 36 years old
- gave him an extension and ntc
- gave him 2.5 million per year before he signed in ottawa and strung some good games together
- prior to that from 2014-2016 in vancouver he put up a 0.36ppg and has shown all indications of slowing down
- traded a highly reputable prospect (dahlen can flop like rundblad but they both had similar hype so its hard to imagine that the best we could get for dahlen was burrows)

that hot streak by burrows in ottawa makes the extension look a bit better but lets hope he can keep that up to justify that contract. But unless burrows somehow goes vintage and puts up the numbers he was putting up with the sedins i really doubt there is anything that makes the deal even in terms of value (unless dahlen flops hardcore).

So the only way to make the trade or at the very least the extension look decent is for burrows to put up points and unless im missing something he is being penciled in to play with thompson and pyatt so it is completely unreasonable to expect burrows to hit enough points to justify the extension

People might even have accepted the extension amount if we paid a lesser price but we didnt. We are banking on a player that has shown a decline in his play to somehow produce at 2.5 million dollars worth and its a bad bet

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

What do they want? 11 points in 20 games regular season. Played a shut down roll against top players who did nothing during the playoffs - but people are in love with a player who has potential - potential to me is where the promise of Patrick Weircoche, Stefan Noessen being the next Corey Perry, Matt O'Connor being the next Ben Bishop - at some point what happens on your NHL ice surface matters more then what is happening on the ice of Swedish 2nd League team.

Burrows proved this season he was worth it, he'll prove it next season as well. I give credit to Dorion for having and developing Dahlen in 6 months to the point we can get a real playoff warrior for him.

In Context Hanzal who Minny paid a load for - had 13 points in 20 games (2 more then Burrows in the exact amount of games - Burrows scored 2 more goals) and Hanzal had 1 playoff point in 5 games - what about credting Dorion for finding Burrows and getting a player for cheap who had mroe impact then Hanzal did for his team - it's perspective.

it's impoissible as well to argue against the next great thing in Ottawa - Dahlen hasn't done squat but the fact that he had a great WJC gets everyone psyched out - Lazar was Captain of a goald winning WJC team, he didn't even get into Calgary's lineup in his 3rd pro season. Perspective is important here

Burrows 2 year extension ie his future value vs Dahlen's future value has not played out in either direction at this point.. some projections are one one side of the line while some are on the other. No crowns being presented for who is right yet.

 

[Tuna99]

sure perspective is definitely important lets try this

- 36 years old
- gave him an extension and ntc
- gave him 2.5 million per year before he signed in ottawa and strung some good games together
- prior to that from 2014-2016 in vancouver he put up a 0.36ppg and has shown all indications of slowing down
- traded a highly reputable prospect (dahlen can flop like rundblad but they both had similar hype so its hard to imagine that the best we could get for dahlen was burrows)

that hot streak by burrows in ottawa makes the extension look a bit better but lets hope he can keep that up to justify that contract. But unless burrows somehow goes vintage and puts up the numbers he was putting up with the sedins i really doubt there is anything that makes the deal even in terms of value (unless dahlen flops hardcore).

So the only way to make the trade or at the very least the extension look decent is for burrows to put up points and unless im missing something he is being penciled in to play with thompson and pyatt so it is completely unreasonable to expect burrows to hit enough points to justify the extension

People might even have accepted the extension amount if we paid a lesser price but we didnt. We are banking on a player that has shown a decline in his play to somehow produce at 2.5 million dollars worth and its a bad bet

My guess is 99% of the fans on this site have seen Dahlen play less then 3 minutes of total hockey in their lives but they are in love with him because Dorion dafted him and they believe Dorion drafts well -m which he did.

Burrows brings a lot more then 20 points a seaosn - look at Bo Horvat who is the future Captain in vancouver who said Burrows had the largest pro impact on his career - Burrows will shows White how to be a 2-way forward, he'll help guys like Paul and Gagne get better. If you are just looking at points, be angry at Bobby Ryan. If you are just looking at age, be angry at Chris Kelly.

Talk to any Canucks fan and ask them who the biggest clutch player in their modern era is - 100% will say Burrows, he has qualities you can't quantify by 3rd line point totals.

And I has seen enough weak losers on the 3rd line - CHiasson, Condra, Greening - we had no depth and we couldn't win because we;d just get ground down. Burrows is a real deal NHL player - he replaces the leadership lost by Neil and Kelly, and you need players like that to win now, and show guys like White how to win in the future.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

It's hard to take a lot of these opinions seriously when they're based entirely on what-if thinking, though.I think most would agree that the perceived cost was too high. Dahlen is a pretty highly regarded prospect, relatively speaking. But the hyperbole is insane. It's like we traded a locked-and-loaded 30-goal scorer for a shambling husk of a player who falls apart when he's breathed on wrong.

It's gone so far at this point that it's just become an accepted view to have that Burrows is a useless buyout candidate already and that because of his age its not even up for debate. This is a guy that has been a consistent performer in the top 9 for 10 years now and while he's not gonna score over 30 anymore, maybe lets let him actually suck out there before writing him off.

I doubt anyone disagrees at this point that giving up Dahlen sucks but it's time to move on with the player we do have and that's a guy that earns his relatively small, short term pay cheque in production alone. 14 mins per game, a lock for anywhere from 10-20 goals and 25-40 points justifies his 2.5 mil (Even at the low end of those numbers) and that's without considering that he plays the pk, pp, and is one of the few willing to stand in front of the net. Many others including Smith, Ryan, Brassard and Pageau produced at essentially the same rate (Or less in Ryan's case) for more money.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

It's gone so far at this point that it's just become an accepted view to have that Burrows is a useless buyout candidate already and that because of his age its not even up for debate. This is a guy that has been a consistent performer in the top 9 for 10 years now and while he's not gonna score over 30 anymore, maybe lets let him actually suck out there before writing him off.

I doubt anyone disagrees at this point that giving up Dahlen sucks but it's time to move on with the player we do have and that's a guy that earns his relatively small, short term pay cheque in production alone. 14 mins per game, a lock for anywhere from 10-20 goals and 25-40 points justifies his 2.5 mil (Even at the low end of those numbers) and that's without considering that he plays the pk, pp, and is one of the few willing to stand in front of the net. Many others including Smith, Ryan, Brassard and Pageau produced at essentially the same rate (Or less in Ryan's case) for more money.

Smith and Pageau were paid less last year; Burrows came in on the balance of a 3 mil salary; Pageau was at 1.1 and Smith was at 2.35 Only matters for accuracy. Burrows was a fine TDL addition. The outstanding questions are; Did we give up too good a prospect? and How will Burrows perform over this year and next?

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

sure perspective is definitely important lets try this

- 36 years old
- gave him an extension and ntc
- gave him 2.5 million per year before he signed in ottawa and strung some good games together
- prior to that from 2014-2016 in vancouver he put up a 0.36ppg and has shown all indications of slowing down
- traded a highly reputable prospect (dahlen can flop like rundblad but they both had similar hype so its hard to imagine that the best we could get for dahlen was burrows)

that hot streak by burrows in ottawa makes the extension look a bit better but lets hope he can keep that up to justify that contract. But unless burrows somehow goes vintage and puts up the numbers he was putting up with the sedins i really doubt there is anything that makes the deal even in terms of value (unless dahlen flops hardcore).

So the only way to make the trade or at the very least the extension look decent is for burrows to put up points and unless im missing something he is being penciled in to play with thompson and pyatt so it is completely unreasonable to expect burrows to hit enough points to justify the extension

People might even have accepted the extension amount if we paid a lesser price but we didnt. We are banking on a player that has shown a decline in his play to somehow produce at 2.5 million dollars worth and its a bad bet

Out of curiosity what kind of production would you say we should be getting for 2.5 mil? I feel like even at his reduced numbers (Which is mostly due to missed games not actually lower production) he justifies that small pay cheque. He produced at the same rate last year as pretty much every forward other than Stone, Hoff and Turris.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Smith and Pageau were paid less last year; Burrows came in on the balance of a 3 mil salary; Pageau was at 1.1 and Smith was at 2.35 Only matters for accuracy. Burrows was a fine TDL addition. The outstanding questions are; Did we give up too good a prospect? and How will Burrows perform over this year and next?

You're right, I had their new contracts in my head.

There's not really an argument anymore that ya we probably gave up too much value and I'm fine with that being a sore point. Even if Dahlen busts and never plays a game in the NHL, his value at the time probably should have gotten more. Its just nice to move on at some point, its water under the bridge, and Burrows actually is a pretty decent player if he can stay healthy.

 

[trentmccleary]

1) Boucher... spent a lot of time interviewing people and got the coach he wanted. Worked out very well so far.

2) Phaneuf... was probably the defacto GM at that point who acquired Phaneuf, plugging by far the biggest hole on the team while offsetting a lot of the salary. Worked out very well so far.

3) Condon... Anderson was going to miss games and Hammond wasn't ready or good enough to take over. Gets Condon for minimal cost and saves the season.

4) Kelly, Brassard, Burrows, Wingels, Stalberg... adds a bunch of Cup winners or finalists to help young players with little playoff experience. Team is an OT goal away from the SCF's.

He had a plan, he executed it within his constraints and he came out very successful.

 

[Sensinitis]

This team could have won the Cup and there would still be posters saying "we should have done this, we should have done that", then excusing that behavior by saying "sure we won, but that doesn't mean PD's moves were all good."

It's the nature of this fanbase to be overly critical, and it's human nature as well (especially in this day and age).

 

[Tuna99]

This team could have won the Cup and there would still be posters saying "we should have done this, we should have done that", then excusing that behavior by saying "sure we won, but that doesn't mean PD's moves were all good."

It's the nature of this fanbase to be overly critical, and it's human nature as well (especially in this day and age).

I also think the fanbase as a whole is generally malcontent with the state of the franchise overall. They are finding it hard to embrace the team (obviously by the ticket counts and general fan malaise) and this gets manifested many ways - some don't like the GM, some don't like the owner, some don't like past trades.

Ottawa lacked direction for so many years, the fanbase is fractured becasue there was never a clear direction. Opinions we all have, but general angst towards the franchise is a current feeling all Sens fans have and it manifests itself in different ways

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

1) Boucher... spent a lot of time interviewing people and got the coach he wanted. Worked out very well so far.

2) Phaneuf... was probably the defacto GM at that point who acquired Phaneuf, plugging by far the biggest hole on the team while offsetting a lot of the salary. Worked out very well so far.

3) Condon... Anderson was going to miss games and Hammond wasn't ready or good enough to take over. Gets Condon for minimal cost and saves the season.

4) Kelly, Brassard, Burrows, Wingels, Stalberg... adds a bunch of Cup winners or finalists to help young players with little playoff experience. Team is an OT goal away from the SCF's.

He had a plan, he executed it within his constraints and he came out very successful.

I'm not so sure it was Dorion's call on this one. Why would he acquire him only to want to trade him a year and a half later?

 

[Sensinitis]

I'm not so sure it was Dorion's call on this one. Why would he acquire him only to want to trade him a year and a half later?

He didn't want to trade him... there were teams calling, so obviously he would listen.

Once he had teams not in Phaneuf's list calling he declined politely.