the most overrated Hockey player of all time

[untouchable21]

Calder
Art Ross
Hart Trophy
Best plus/minus
Selke finalist
3x First All-star Team
7x All-Star Games
Scored most points in 2x playoffs
2x Olympics
2x Cups
2x World Champs
4th in all-time assists-per-game
10th in all-time points-per-game
Most points in a WJC tournament



Arguably the most gifted and complete Swedish player of all time which IS a general consensus among Swedes (Notice the difference between best career and best player)

Why is he overrated? What was he bad at? Why do you think he doesn't match up with other great players?

Please give a detailed response because I'm EXTREMELY interested in knowing. HFBoards is the only place where I've met hockey fans that call Peter Forsberg overrated.

Agree 100%. He was the best combination of physicality and skill since maybe Messier. He could not be intimidated.

Forsberg is the benchmark by which all future Swedish forwards are measured. He is what the Zibanejads, Backstroms and Paajarvi's of the world aspire to be. Not trying to single them out, just stating that teams draft big, skilled forwards like that on the chance that they'll be the next Forsberg. (Believe that was Lidstrom he undressed at the 1:56 mark of the video)

HE ALONE proved to be better than Lindros and adding in all the other pieces the Flyers gave up just made it a landslide of a steal for Quebec.

My all time overrated team is ...

Radulov - C. Drury - Oshie

M. Staal E. Johnson

J. Hiller

Not saying they're terrible players in fact other than Radulov and Hiller I actually like these players. I just think that they get too much hype.

 

[Jigger77]

Martin Brodeur, played on a team good enough to provide him the protection to be successful. He was a good goalie but spent his entire career on a very good team. I know its silly to put him down because his team was so good for so long but I think he is overrated because of it.

If I had another choice I would also nominate Messier, everything about the guy screams overrated.

I also think its unfair to say guys were overrated just because their careers were derailed by injuries. I have seen Lindros's name as well as Clark, both excellent players but injuries pretty much destroyed each of their respective careers.

Interesting post. I read the OP and the two names that immediately came to mind for me were Messier and Brodeur.

Now, I don't mean to discredit what they accomplished and I'm not saying they are bad players, far from it. But to me Messier was very dirty as a player and probably would not have as much success in today's game. Especially if you consider that most of his cheap shots were elbows to the head and how much spotlight is on that now.

As for Brodeur, maybe it's because I'm a Habs fan and he's owned my team for the last decade but something about him rubs me the wrong way. Not a lot of goalies have the luxury of having Niedermayer, Stevens, Rafalski etc playing in front of them (not to mention the way NJ played in those years and the very low media pressure etc). I think a lot of goalies would have had similar success in NJ. Mind you what he did in this year's playoffs almost had me cheering for him to win a last one. Almost

 

[Blitzburgh87*]

Hence he is over rated. he is a great player but no one near the level is Wayne IMO

Meh. I tend to disagree he's more of a modern day Gretzky. He wont score nearly as many points because of the era he plays in but I think he could hit top 10 scoring all time. If he plays with a 1.68 ppg for the next 8 years I'd put him up there with lemieux.

 

[YippieKaey]

I think Messier too, like the guy and you know, pretty cool player. But everyone keeps talking about him being second in career points but hey, he played for 23 seasons so no surprise. I´ve always valued PPG over longevity points, that´s also why i consider Gordie Howe slightly overrated but i never saw him play so cant really say he is.

 

[backofthenet]

Can only go from my era.

Rob Blake.
Joe Thornton

 

[Michael Farkas]

Messier and S. Niedermayer among my generation. I think most believe that they were top-5 at their respective positions on all-time scale. Messier normally considered a top-5 or 10 player ever...

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

When I see posts like "Messier didn't deserve the 1992 Hart," ( which he got 67/69 first place votes for), I think he's becoming underrated by younger posters

 

[Crease]

Messier and S. Niedermayer among my generation. I think most believe that they were top-5 at their respective positions on all-time scale. Messier normally considered a top-5 or 10 player ever...

Agree with this. On page 2 I had these two and Tretiak to round out my selections. All three are great players, Messier being the best of the three and top 10 in his position, but they're way too high on many people's "All-Time" lists IMO.

 

[canucksfan]

I think Messier too, like the guy and you know, pretty cool player. But everyone keeps talking about him being second in career points but hey, he played for 23 seasons so no surprise. I´ve always valued PPG over longevity points, that´s also why i consider Gordie Howe slightly overrated but i never saw him play so cant really say he is.

Howe was top five in points twenty consecutive years. He was that good.

 

[CarlWinslow]

Agree 100%. He was the best combination of physicality and skill since maybe Messier. He could not be intimidated.

Forsberg is the benchmark by which all future Swedish forwards are measured. He is what the Zibanejads, Backstroms and Paajarvi's of the world aspire to be. Not trying to single them out, just stating that teams draft big, skilled forwards like that on the chance that they'll be the next Forsberg. (Believe that was Lidstrom he undressed at the 1:56 mark of the video)

HE ALONE proved to be better than Lindros and adding in all the other pieces the Flyers gave up just made it a landslide of a steal for Quebec.

My all time overrated team is ...

Radulov - C. Drury - Oshie

M. Staal E. Johnson

J. Hiller

Not saying they're terrible players in fact other than Radulov and Hiller I actually like these players. I just think that they get too much hype.

At his peak, Lindros was a better player than Forsberg but in the end this is true.

I'm going to throw up another Forsberg nomination though as on here is gets regarded as one of the best players of all-time by a lot of people. He's not in that group.

 

[seventieslord]

I never get tired of seeing kids go "yeah Howe had so many points, but look at how many games he played!!!"

 

[Say Hey Kid]

...Messier normally considered a top-5 or 10 player ever...

Wrong. Excluding your post, I've never even heard of anyone thinking that. Some players that are considered top 10 ever are:

Bobby Orr, D
Wayne Gretzky, C
Gordie Howe, RW
Mario Lemieux, C
Doug Harvey, D
Jean Beliveau, C
Eddie Shore, D
Raymond Bourque, D
Bobby Hull, LW
Denis Potvin, D
Nicklas Lidström, D
Maurice Richard, RW
Stan Mikita, C

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Lindros, Forsberg, and Bure among a lot of fans.

Scott Niedermayer is easily the most overrated player of all-time by the media. Actually, Rick Nash is close there too.

Agreed with all of this. On hfboards, Lindros, Bure, and Forsberg take the cake.

 

[I Hate Blake Coleman]

Forsberg gets too much love on HF, but that's limited to this site in my experience so I will not say him. As much as I get annoyed with the Forsberg circle jerk, he was a dominant player.

I'm going to say Bobby Clarke. Granted, he was before my time, but people get so bent out of shape over beating Orr for the Hart. From people who saw him play in my family and circle of co-workers and friends, most agree that Orr should have won more Harts than he did, including the ones Clarke won. But like Forsberg, I'm basing my opinion solely on the amount of love Clarke gets.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Wrong. Excluding your post, I've never even heard of anyone thinking that. Some players that are considered top 10 ever are:

Bobby Orr, D
Wayne Gretzky, C
Gordie Howe, RW
Mario Lemieux, C
Doug Harvey, D
Jean Beliveau, C
Eddie Shore, D
Raymond Bourque, D
Bobby Hull, LW
Denis Potvin, D
Nicklas Lidström, D
Maurice Richard, RW
Stan Mikita, C

Joe Pelletier has Mark Messier as his 7th best player of all time: http://www.greatesthockeylegends.com/2007/08/greatest-hockey-players-of-all-time.html?m=1

The THN top 100 has him 12th.

Both seem excessively high.

But then the younger posters who say he was no better than Yzerman are understating him IMO

 

[Muffin]

http://www.hockey-reference.com/leaders/points_per_game_career.html

A healthy Forsberg at his prime was unbelievable, not even Sakic could touch a healthy Forsberg.

 

[BraveCanadian]

http://www.hockey-reference.com/leaders/points_per_game_career.html

A healthy Forsberg at his prime was unbelievable, not even Sakic could touch a healthy Forsberg.

I guess it is a real shame that there was very rarely such a Forsberg.

 

[overpass]

Joe Pelletier has Mark Messier as his 7th best player of all time: http://www.greatesthockeylegends.com/2007/08/greatest-hockey-players-of-all-time.html?m=1

The THN top 100 has him 12th.

Both seem excessively high.

But then the younger posters who say he was no better than Yzerman are understating him IMO

The Edmonton Journal's Jim Matheson had Messier at 5th on his Top 50 list submitted for THN's Top 50 list. Ahead of Mario Lemieux (8th). (Source: an article he published when the list came out - can't find the details now.)

I guess he likes his career stats and cups.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Fan favorites for big market teams like Wendel Clark and Trevor Linden definitely get overrated here and in the ATD.

Joe Nieuwendyk is definitely not overrated here, but is really overrated by the media.

 

[CarlWinslow]

http://www.hockey-reference.com/leaders/points_per_game_career.html

A healthy Forsberg at his prime was unbelievable, not even Sakic could touch a healthy Forsberg.

If we are giving Forsberg hypothetical health, give Lindros the same. In that case Forsberg couldn't touch the Big E.

 

[BraveCanadian]

Fan favorites for big market teams like Wendel Clark and Trevor Linden definitely get overrated here and in the ATD.

That's it. You're dead!

It really isn't possible to overrate Wendel Clark.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

I also think excellent support players for multiple championships tend to get overrated. I love me some Ken Daneyko, but there is no way he gets drafted so high in the ATD if he played for a lesser team. Kevin Lowe has a serious number of supporters for the HHOF. The way people talk about Adam Foote, you'd think he was in the conversation for the Norris... Maybe once.

Great players all of them, but I don't think they would be nearly so highly regarded if playing for lesser teams

 

[Eisen]

I never get tired of seeing kids go "yeah Howe had so many points, but look at how many games he played!!!"

And how he gets no sniff at the top3 players all time...

 

[Epsilon]

I also think excellent support players for multiple championships tend to get overrated. I love me some Ken Daneyko, but there is no way he gets drafted so high in the ATD if he played for a lesser team. Kevin Lowe has a serious number of supporters for the HHOF. The way people talk about Adam Foote, you'd think he was in the conversation for the Norris... Maybe once

I think some of the overrating for Adam Foote comes from the fact that he played for some high-profile Team Canada editions in the 1990s and 2000s. I've mentioned this on here a few times (mostly in the context of the top defensemen project) that he seems to get more HOF boosters than either Derian Hatcher or Ulf Samuelsson, similar players who I rank at about the same level as Foote (and personally have ahead of him, although not by much).

 

[Marotte Marauder]

Brian Lawton

Doug Wickenheiser

Wendel Clark