The most contraversial move in NHL history?

[Ogopogo*]

The difference is that as a grocery clerk at A & P, if he didn't like it, he could cross the street & become a grocery clerk at Loblaws.

Hockey players can go to Europe and play or play in the AHL.

If you want to work for the best employer in your industry you have to work by their rules. If you don't like it, work somewhere else.

I could certainly whine and moan that I have a cubicle and not an office. If I don't like it, I would have to move to a different employer.

 

[Psycho Papa Joe]

Hockey players can go to Europe and play or play in the AHL.

If you want to work for the best employer in your industry you have to work by their rules. If you don't like it, work somewhere else.

I could certainly whine and moan that I have a cubicle and not an office. If I don't like it, I would have to move to a different employer.

My issue was with them signing minors and keeping them for life. I know he likely had to have his parent's permission, but I still don't like the fact a kid, who can be very easily manipulated by adults, is basically owned. Once he signed with Boston, he couldn't go to Europe, AHL ect to play the game he loved and do what he was best at, regardless of his wishes once he became an adult. If he had been an adult when he signed, I wouldn't have an issue.

Using your accountant example. I'm an accountant, I'm good at it and enjoy my work. But I certainly wouldn't have liked it if I was signed to an accounting firm at the age of 12, with my parent's blessing, for life. Now if I made that decision once I became an adult, then it's my problem.

 

[Kimi]

I think the bigger controversey is NHL teams signing 12 year olds and basically owning them for life until they no longer have a use for them.

It's only owning them for life if they sign a contract that long. It's not an uncomom thing to be signed to a football club at that age here in the UK. Sign with the team to go into the youth academy. I've know many people signed at that age, most don't ever play for the full team or even make the academy team. It's not like the teams hold onto the players for the rest of their lives, it's easy to get out of the contracts and sign else where.

 

[Psycho Papa Joe]

It's only owning them for life if they sign a contract that long. It's not an uncomom thing to be signed to a football club at that age here in the UK. Sign with the team to go into the youth academy. I've know many people signed at that age, most don't ever play for the full team or even make the academy team. It's not like the teams hold onto the players for the rest of their lives, it's easy to get out of the contracts and sign else where.

In the 60's when the NHL signed a kid, he was owned for as long as the team wanted him.

 

[Northern Dancer]

In the 60's when the NHL signed a kid, he was owned for as long as the team wanted him.

You are correct, and everynight as a kid I went to bed hoping to be signed to a "c form" by any of the original six, but mostly the Leafs. Do not know what is worse, the "c form" or waiting for the meat market draft system they now use for both junior and pro.

It really was not that bad of a system. The real problem was there was only 6 NHL teams. It did not matter if you were buried under the "c form" or the draft, with only 6 teams you had no moves or options compared to to-day.

 

[pappyline]

You are correct, and everynight as a kid I went to bed hoping to be signed to a "c form" by any of the original six, but mostly the Leafs. Do not know what is worse, the "c form" or waiting for the meat market draft system they now use for both junior and pro.

It really was not that bad of a system. The real problem was there was only 6 NHL teams. It did not matter if you were buried under the "c form" or the draft, with only 6 teams you had no moves or options compared to to-day.

It was basically a monopoly controlled by the owners of the 6 teams. Ogopogo mentions that they could go to Europe or the AHL but these leagues didn't pay well compared to the NHL and didn't have the fame. They could also bury you in the minors if you complained. The owners held all the cards. A guy like Gordie Howe probably made 20k in those days which was way more than the average joe but most players made a lot less. They had absolutely no bargaining power. Unless you were a superstar there were lots of guys waiting to take your place.

Yeh. I would have signed a C form too if offered one. What canadian boy wouldn't. it would be a dream come true.

 

[Malefic74]

Yeh. I would have signed a C form too if offered one. What canadian boy wouldn't. it would be a dream come true.

The answer is Jean Beliveau. He signed a B form on the advice from his very shrewd father. The result was that he wound up getting paid far more by the amateur Quebec Aces than the Montreal Canadiens could pay him as a rookie. And then every training camp and tryout he would blow the doors off anyone he came up against, but would always go back to Quebec City.

Which is why Frank Selke had to buy the entire Quebec Senior Mens League and renamed it the Quebec Professionnal Senior Mens League and since they had the professional rights to Beliveau from the B form he had to sign with them. But he got considerably more than any other rookie had ever gotten from the organization before: $100,000 over 5 years. In 1953!

 

[hckyfan0099]

Bill Wirtz' treatment of the Blackhawks franchise and Blackhawks fans deserves a mention.

And I'm an Habs fan.

I'd have to agree. Wirtz is the worst thing to ever happen to hockey.

 

[Psycho Papa Joe]

I'd have to agree. Wirtz is the worst thing to ever happen to hockey.

As bad as Wirtz is, he's no Harold Ballard.

 

[hckyfan0099]

One more thing...

I dont know if this has been said but Rick Dipietro to a 15-year deal! That is quite a gamble.

 

[Hyped]

The 1971 draft was a weird one. The Habs owned California's 1st round pick but LA looked like they were going to finish below them in the standings. So Montreal dealt Ralph Backstrom to the Kings to help the team win some games and hopefully finish ahead of California. Well, it worked and the Canadiens took Guy Lafleur with the first overall pick. They then tried to swing a deal with the Red Wings who held the 2nd overall pick, at least that's what Marcel Dionne recalls (who the Habs were hoping to grab along with Lafleur). But the Wings declined and selected Dionne for themselves. It was probably this draft in particular that Clarence Campbell, then NHL president, tried to change the draft and trading "rules" because it was hurting the recent expansion teams. At the time, it seemed like the league would never see anything that resembled parity in the league...

 

[The Slap Shop]

Pavel Bure drafted by the Vancouver Canucks.

 

[Hasbro]

Judging by complaints lobbied here

The shootout

Visors

Fighting

expansion teams in the south

Europeans

 

[Malefic74]

The 1971 draft was a weird one. The Habs owned California's 1st round pick but LA looked like they were going to finish below them in the standings. So Montreal dealt Ralph Backstrom to the Kings to help the team win some games and hopefully finish ahead of California. Well, it worked and the Canadiens took Guy Lafleur with the first overall pick. They then tried to swing a deal with the Red Wings who held the 2nd overall pick, at least that's what Marcel Dionne recalls (who the Habs were hoping to grab along with Lafleur). But the Wings declined and selected Dionne for themselves. It was probably this draft in particular that Clarence Campbell, then NHL president, tried to change the draft and trading "rules" because it was hurting the recent expansion teams. At the time, it seemed like the league would never see anything that resembled parity in the league...

Sam Pollock has been asked about that scenario a lot. In the books I've read when expansion was decided upon he proposed a kind of moritorium on trading draft choices to give the expansion teams a chance to build their teams through the draft. He was soundly out-voted. Being a believer in building through the draft he was in a poistion to use the Canadiens well-stocked farm systems to make offers to those teams who had draft picks he wanted. Those GMs never came to Pollock with hat in hand, he certainly didn't put a gun to their head. But they all were thinking short term while Pollock thought long term.

The league has (finally) returned to a state where the skills of a GM really matter again, and teams can't buy their way out of trouble (Rangers) and other teams can't dump bad players with worse deals that they made onto the big money teams like they could before. GMs have to decide on short term or long term and those decisions will shape their trading policies. It would not surprise me in the least if another deal like that nugget from long ago happened again.

 

[Hasbro]

The league has (finally) returned to a state where the skills of a GM really matter again, and teams can't buy their way out of trouble (Rangers)

Oh the Rangers paid for the ticket they just never got to the destination.

 

[12# Peter Bondra]

As bad as Wirtz is, he's no Harold Ballard.

Thank God there arent any more GM's like he is.

 

[Finkle is Einhorn]

Pavel Bure drafted by the Vancouver Canucks.

That draft, in conjunction with Quinngate, is a fascinating story.

 

[Ofuzz]

Someone earlier posted in regards to the Messier/Linden situation in Vancouver. It wasn't big 'league wide' but it was huge in Vancouver. Messier signs the 3 year 20 million dollar contract. Still wears #11 even though it had been taken out of service out of respect for Wayne Maki who passed away in the 70's. Linden 'voluntarily' gives up the captain's C in training camp. Mess' buddy Mike Keenan is hired shortly into the season. And then the heart and soul of the team "Captain Canuck" himself is traded to the Islanders.

There was justice however. Linden grabs a spot on the Olympic team while Messier is left off. Messier never played another playoff game for the remainder of his career. The Canucks finally get back to the playoffs upon Messier leaving and Linden returning. The Rangers finally get back to the playoffs in 2006 (the year after Messier retires).

Now if the Canucks would just come complete and do the right thing. Give Trevor back the "C" that never should have left.

 

[Das Rancor]

I don't quite remember which team or year it was... But I think I once heard a story of a team sacking its new GM after about a month or so and then hiring its backup goalie as replacement...

 

[Hasbro]

Someone earlier posted in regards to the Messier/Linden situation in Vancouver. It wasn't big 'league wide' but it was huge in Vancouver. Messier signs the 3 year 20 million dollar contract. Still wears #11 even though it had been taken out of service out of respect for Wayne Maki who passed away in the 70's. Linden 'voluntarily' gives up the captain's C in training camp. Mess' buddy Mike Keenan is hired shortly into the season. And then the heart and soul of the team "Captain Canuck" himself is traded to the Islanders.

There was justice however. Linden grabs a spot on the Olympic team while Messier is left off. Messier never played another playoff game for the remainder of his career. The Canucks finally get back to the playoffs upon Messier leaving and Linden returning. The Rangers finally get back to the playoffs in 2006 (the year after Messier retires).

Now if the Canucks would just come complete and do the right thing. Give Trevor back the "C" that never should have left.

Throw in that losing Messier precipitated the Rangers hitting Sakic with an offer sheet.

 

[Wetcoaster]

My pick for the most controversial move was training camp cut.

Worst all-time - not even close. It is failing to sign a player by the Rangers' GM Lester Patrick in 1943. I rank this as the greatest blunder of all time - maybe in any sport. The only other one which comes close is the sale of Babe Ruth to the NY Yankees by the Red Sox.

The New York Rangers were holding their pre-season camp in Winnipeg that year and they had invited a prairie boy to come to their camp. After watching him throughout camp Patrick decided he was too scrawny and deemed him injury prone and not worth signing. He sent him back home which may have been just as well because the kid was homesick and had not been away from his rural Saskatchewan home for any length of time. He would play that year for the Saskatoon Lions of the Saskatchewan Junior Hockey League.

The following year he tried out with the Detroit Red Wings and was signed. He was later assigned to one of their minor league affiliates in Omaha, Nebraska. In 1946-47 he made the big club and for 32 years Mr. Hockey, Gordie Howe would prove he not only belonged in professional hockey but would be an elite player and IMHO the greatest of all-time (apologies to Orr and Gretzky). After retiring for two years, he returned to play in the WHA. He would play one more season (1980-81) in the NHL for the Hartford Whalers at the age of 51. He would play in all 80 games and score 15 goals, 26 assists for 41 points and being Gordie he added 42 PIM for good measure.

Not too bad for a scrawny, injury prone kid. If Lester Patrick had signed him, think of what NY Ranger history might have been.

 

[Psycho Papa Joe]

My pick for the most controversial move was training camp cut.

Worst all-time - not even close. It is failing to sign a player by the Rangers' GM Lester Patrick in 1943. I rank this as the greatest blunder of all time - maybe in any sport. The only other one which comes close is the sale of Babe Ruth to the NY Yankees by the Red Sox.

The New York Rangers were holding their pre-season camp in Winnipeg that year and they had invited a prairie boy to come to their camp. After watching him throughout camp Patrick decided he was too scrawny and deemed him injury prone and not worth signing. He sent him back home which may have been just as well because the kid was homesick and had not been away from his rural Saskatchewan home for any length of time. He would play that year for the Saskatoon Lions of the Saskatchewan Junior Hockey League.

The following year he tried out with the Detroit Red Wings and was signed. He was later assigned to one of their minor league affiliates in Omaha, Nebraska. In 1946-47 he made the big club and for 32 years Mr. Hockey, Gordie Howe would prove he not only belonged in professional hockey but would be an elite player and IMHO the greatest of all-time (apologies to Orr and Gretzky). After retiring for two years, he returned to play in the WHA. He would play one more season (1980-81) in the NHL for the Hartford Whalers at the age of 51. He would play in all 80 games and score 15 goals, 26 assists for 41 points and being Gordie he added 42 PIM for good measure.

Not too bad for a scrawny, injury prone kid. If Lester Patrick had signed him, think of what NY Ranger history might have been.

Just to put more salt in the wound. Around the same time, the Rangers had a chance to pick up an injury prone Montrealer, Maurice Richard, for peanuts.

 

[Jumptheshark]

Remember this beauty:

Before the 1989 waiver draft, Philadelphia trades Pete Peeters and Keith Acton (both of whom they didn`t have room for on their protected list and likely would`ve lost) to Winnipeg for future considerations. Winnipeg puts both guys on their protected list and after the draft trades them back to Philly for a 5th round pick.

They just fallowed Slats' lead

Muni to Buffalo to the Pens back to Edmonton

stashing him on two teams was priceless

oilers did 3 times in 2 years

I foget the other two players

 

[Wetcoaster]

That draft, in conjunction with Quinngate, is a fascinating story.

Bure went late because he was considered not to be eligible for the draft that year according to the NHL and the Canucks took a flyer hoping to prevail. In those days it was a requirement that a younger player have played so many games with the national team (not junior nats) and/or so many games in the Russian pro league. Bure was short a couple of games so was considered ineligible according to the NHL list.

The NHL initially ruled the Canucks pick void and the Canucks appealed.

After a number of hearings the Canucks produced some extra game sheets showing Bure on the roster of a Russian elite league team for several games. Oddly enough his name was on the bottom of the roster list on each of the extra game sheets.

No decision was made for months on the appeal and then suddenly.....

Late on the night before the next year's draft Zeigler reverses his decision and awarded Bure to the Canucks not leaving sufficient time for an appeal by other NHL clubs.

In another odd coincidence the Canucks and new GM Pat Quinn then immediately discontinued their appeal lawsuit against Zeigler over his banning of Quinn and fines imposed due to the "Quinngate" affair. This was where Quinn while still under contract to and coaching the LA Kings and negotiating with them for a contract extension, had at mid-season taken $100,000 cash in a paper bag from the Canucks (delivered by a Canucks trainer) while in Vancouver to coach a game against the Canucks.

For some reason John Zeigler had some problems with the transaction although Quinn was unable to see he had done any wrong.

In the result Zeigler had banned Quinn for life for conduct detrimental to the NHL but subsequently commuted his sentence to a ban until the next season and a 2 year ban on coaching. This spawned a series of court actions in which Zeigler's ban on Quinn was upheld but the fine against the Canucks was reduced. It was the appeal of the decision on Quinn that was abandoned by the Canucks after Bure was finally awarded to them.

As Roger Neilson once remarked - There are two things in life you do not want to know - what goes into a hot dog and what goes on at the NHL head office.

 

[nmbr_24]

Wayne Gretzky trade.

Mario Lemieux 42 millions contract.

Lindros refusing to play for Quebec.

Maurice Richard suspension..

I don't understand how Richard getting suspended for hitting an official is controversial at all, what IS controversial is the fans reaction to the suspension.