Post-Game Talk: The Maple Andersens beat the Flames. 2-1 (SO)

[Muston Atthews]

False, it happened last night. After we tied the game at 1-1 we never made the puck hit the back of the net during gameplay, but they didn't either. So it was just as important.

In the end we won the game because Nylander put the puck in the net

 

[Budsfan]

Sure it gives you more perspective and credibility, and that stuff is important when forming an argument, but to shut down criticism because you believe someone is an "armchair coach" halts discussion, at which point this becomes less a Leafs forum and more a Leafs cheerleader club.

And yea that would be the easy lazy way to go about doing things. But what if I actually really enjoy the directors other works and I believe there is a lot of potential there? If someone is willing to go in depth and offer criticism, then obviously the have an emotion interest in whatever they are criticizing.

We are going off topic to be honest, my main point against you was that your take that people are negative because of prejudices is unfounded

Your right we are getting off topic but prejudices are real and in some cases unfounded but certainly Biased, in any case this rhetoric has solve nothing and it will continue regardless.

 

[thewave]

Hyman turned the puck over countless times last night. So many offensive positions died on his stick last night. When Matthews and Nylander are together it's much easier to watch because Hyman hardly ever carries the puck in.

The game was so bad it's just a big blur or BS to at this point. I don't even remember who was bad when everything just seemed bad except Rielly, Andersen and Nylander.

 

[Blanche Blanche]

Actually the Flames were really good tonight. Leafs were fine, the other team brought their A game and they are a better defensive team.

Leafs hung in there and played pretty well IMO, they don't win this game without Andersen obviously, but they weren't bad at all, pretty much played a 60 minute game against a team that was just better tonight and wasn't allowing the Leafs to play their strengths for more than a couple minutes all night.

I have no problems with this win, and you know your teams is starting to become something when you win games you shouldn't because you're just that damn good whether its your goalie or your timely offense or just a lucky bonus win when you're already winning all the time.

I saw the same too. Glad to know some of us aren't all Nail and Hammers kinda fans.

Calgary had their D on all cylinders. I'd even say they had the leafs "number" by the way they stifled the leafs offense in the middle. We had good setups and plays, but a calgary stick or skate, or leg or body always found a way to break a play. Hence why the shots on goal wasn't a good indicator as how this game went.

The leafs are tightening up their D. Instead of being trapped in their own zone for long stretches, they actually got out.

Lol besides Andersen, Nylander was our best player, my jaw actually dropped when him Kadri and Marleau were out and Marleau hit the post from a Nylander pass, then there was a face off but for some reason Komarov was out there instead of Nylander

Yeah Nylander was slicing through the neutral zone matrix style. While Marner needs to skate a little better. Hes so quick so he steals pucks and creates odd man rushes, but he kinda panics, and always fumbles it or falls down. Young pup needs to find his legs again.

 

[Thread The Needle]

The game was so bad it's just a big blur or BS to at this point. I don't even remember who was bad when everything just seemed bad except Rielly, Andersen and Nylander.

Gardiner was decent too that game and I am normally very critical of his D zone play. O zone entry was just wow bad though for the team for the most part. The best example was that PP where nobody could enter save Matthews. A lot of players were turning it over right outside our own blue line too when either going for the stretch pass (will this ever end?) or panic especially Bozak. The stretch pass is still leading to around 10 icings a game too. Stretching the use of the stretch pass, aren't we?

 

[thewave]

Gardiner was decent too that game and I am normally very critical of his D zone play. O zone entry was just wow bad though for the team for the most part. The best example was that PP where nobody could enter save Matthews. A lot of players were turning it over right outside our own blue line too when either going for the stretch pass (will this ever end?) or panic especially Bozak. The stretch pass is still leading to around 10 icings a game too. Stretching the use of the stretch pass, aren't we?

Yeah Jake was pretty good as well. He usually turns the corner around this time of year but it's hard for me, a supporter of his to make many positive comments these days after a couple good games or else the one liners start coming in.

It was Grenadier night out there for sure. I think I will mostly erase this game from memory.

The stretch pass has never worked for any team the past decade save for a few combinations. The Leafs, even under Wilson were money when they executed the short pass. I guess I am saying, they need pass more efficiently and not try for so many high risk. I don't know if we are utilizing it because of frustration or because Roman Polak is an artillery cannon on Ice.

 

[ponder]

After a rocky start (when he honestly wasn’t that bad, team playing awful d), Andersen has been unreal, playing at an absolutely elite level. Completely, utterly stole this game.

 

[Mugzy97]

In the end we won the game because Nylander put the puck in the net

Of course but a shootout has nothing to do with who Matthews was playing with all game. A shootout is a skills competition. It doesn't matter how good you are defensively when you're 1-on-1 with the goalie.

 

[Walshy7]

Of course but a shootout has nothing to do with who Matthews was playing with all game. A shootout is a skills competition. It doesn't matter how good you are defensively when you're 1-on-1 with the goalie.

I bet babcock wishes he could send hyman out to dig in the corners while Matthews has a shootout attempt

 

[member 262271]

Ok Babcock, this is getting ridiculous. Matthews playing with those two plodders borders on stupidity. Those plodders didn't win a single battle all night. Our genius coach insists that Matthews needs puck retrievers. If they can't do that, get Matthews away from them. And then, he plays Hyman and Hainsey and Zaitsev in overtime and Nylander only had one shift before the powerplay??? Come on Babcock supporters, explain that idiot's choices. The ONLY reason they won this game was Andersen. Not Babcock having 3 days of practices, teaching his non-existent system, preparing his team for another slow start. Maybe try putting your best two players together. Nylander has been the best skater the past 3 games. What's his reward? Playing half the game with Martin and Moore. I believe Matthews' is being stymied by Babcock. He doesn't look right, and I believe it's Babcock's doing. Ridiculous.

To be fair, there are few players on this team who win puck battles. I'm starting to think Mike has adopted a sort of "this is what we have, trying to make the best of it" sort of mentality.

 

[ULF_55]

Of course not ULF but the team has to learn team defence, we have a lot of young players that are great goal scorers, people here think Babcock is punishing players by playing them on different lines but he is trying to make them complete players and still win games, this is a long term comittment for these players they are going to be with us hopefully a very long time and learning to play the game properly, is as some would put it good asset management.

I would like to see different lines not because I'm smarter than Babcock, but for curiosity sake alone.

Honestly, line combinations are kind of meaningless as Babcock switches up all the time.

Team defense was not on display last night, if advanced stats say otherwise they need to be revised.

Leafs have played 2 good games out of the last 4, however they've won 3 of them. So bank the points but don't pretend corrections aren't required.

Appreciate not just the points, but how they were acquired.

 

[Budsfan]

I would like to see different lines not because I'm smarter than Babcock, but for curiosity sake alone.

Honestly, line combinations are kind of meaningless as Babcock switches up all the time.

Team defense was not on display last night, if advanced stats say otherwise they need to be revised.

Leafs have played 2 good games out of the last 4, however they've won 3 of them. So bank the points but don't pretend corrections aren't required.

Appreciate not just the points, but how they were acquired.

Lots of times I use Sayings or adages but lots of times they are right "Curiosity killed the Cat" the idea is to keep winning and the rest of the adage"But satisfaction brought it back" winning is important and absolutely he switches players in different situations and as a coach you have to play the hand your dealt and I believe we are still in a rebuild, so next year we should see more changes.

Sometimes we are just outplayed, Calgary has one of the best, if not the best Defencemen in the NHL at this time and they like the Leafs are a fairly young team but they are a very good team and even though they outshot us, it basically came down to a Goalie battle and Andersen was the difference.

Making corrections yes but the ones Babcock has been making, keep the team winning and that is important, people may not agree with it but the results are there and a winning attitude is paramount and how the wins were accomplished is immaterial.

Marleau when asked why signing here .... a young Team to play with and to help mentor, an outstanding Coach he knew, a decent Salary, a chance to continue his carreer and a decent shot at The Cup.... is he wrong?

 

[Walshy7]

It wasn't as ugly a game as it looked on the shot count. Flames had almost half their shots from the blue, many of them without much traffic. That's not an issue for us. What created the disparity on the shot clock was that our defensive tactic is to allow them the point, and clear view. That leads to a lot of unblocked shots, but ones that are not that dangerous. Flames defensive tactic was to cram the middle of the ice, which leads to a lot of blocked shots. Shot attempts were actually quite even, the problem was that we never got into any good areas for our first shots, and we got no second chances.

And I just have to say it, despite mostly being on the other side of the discussion. Babcocks decisions this game absolutely baffled me. Nylander stuck for most of the game on the fourth line despite being our by far best skater. Brown getting every chance with Matthews despite not doing anything right. Moving Nylander up to Matthews and then replacing him with Brown again after Flames got a counter-rush after we had one. That happens, and has nothing to do with Nylander. Marner having a liability game, yet gets thrown out there all the time and in the OT. Nylander being our best OT player and our best player of the night, yet gets almost completely benched in OT. Hyman out there instead, though to his credit he did very well. Komarov finally getting sent to the fourth, Nylander replacing him and immediately that line has their two best shifts, setting up a near-goal, at which point Komarov went back again. Stuck with matchups that seemed to favor Calgary almost religiously. I just don't see the logic here, not from a game management, tactical, or teaching perspective. If I'm Nylander, I wonder what the heck the coach want from me.

Great
Nylander (3.28) - An absolute beast. For most of the game, we only ever seemed to threaten the net with Nylander on the ice. For his troubles he got benched and saw almost no OT time, where he usually shines.
Gardiner (2.79) - Played almost 27 minutes and put on a clinic of outlet passing along with strong defense. Two good games in a row. Let's hope for 50 more.
Andersen (3.4) - Another clinic of goaltending. Smith was terrific tonight, but Andersen was miles better.

Good
Kadri (3.14) - Kadri had a strong game in my opinion, going up against a very tough line and holding his own, while also (individually) pushing some offense.
Zaitsev (2.76) - His pairing was very strong all night. Had some ugly outlet attempts, but otherwise great game.
Rielly (3.45) - Rielly has so much confidence in his puck carrying right now, and it's a huge boon for our team.

Average
Matthews (4.04) - Rather quiet, but had some very nice setups on the PP and held the Monahan line in check.
Hyman (2.9) - Looked good on the OT. What a surprising sentence to write. Played a strong defensive game.
Marleau (3.14) - Just fine at even strength, didn't like him on the PP.
Bozak (2.57) - Rather edgeless offensively, had some nice intentions but couldn't quite get there. Actually pretty solid defensively tonight.
JVR (2.82) - See Bozak.
Hainsey (3.07) - Hainsey looked sluggish tonight. Got walked a bit too easy, and had trouble moving the puck.
Borgman (2.52) - Very noticeable for some good things, but this pairing really couldn't get the puck out of our zone. It was constant pressure with them on.

Bad
Brown (2.93) - Well, he was pretty good defensively at even strength. Didn't quite like him on the PK tonight. And he did nothing right offensively, with or without the puck.
Komarov (2.34) - He tried to stickhandle through traffic. In the defensive zone. On the PK.
Marner (3.07) - Started very well and then fell off completely. Careless with the puck. Had a few really, really ugly turnovers.
Moore (2.45) - Good on the PK, useless at even strength tonight.
Martin (2.44) - Mostly harmless.
Polak (1.9) - Mostly harmful to absolutely everything. His issue tonight wasn't that he did bad things. He just didn't do anything good, and the result was that he was struggling to keep alive.

Awful
-

hey man what do the numbers mean?, could you direct to me the where you posted it first time if it takes too long to explain.

Or tell me to get f***ed if you cant be bothered haha, seriously though if you have to go out of your way don't do it on my account I should have paid attention earlier

 

[Daisy Jane]

hey man what do the numbers mean?, could you direct to me the where you posted it first time if it takes too long to explain.

Or tell me to get ****ed if you cant be bothered haha, seriously though if you have to go out of your way don't do it on my account I should have paid attention earlier

they are an average of the grades they got.

 

[Walshy7]

they are an average of the grades they got.

grades from where?

 

[Slyfox]

At this point I wonder if they are purposely benching Nylander to make his contracts demands go down. Its the only possible reason I see.

 

[BrannigansLaw]

Morgan Rielly... I kinda doubted his offensive prowess, boy has he proven me wrong so far... what a beast.

Same here. He's been looking like the Rielly we saw in the playoffs last year for the past few weeks.

 

[Nithoniniel]

grades from where?

My reviews. So Matthews averages a little bit better than a good grade from me, while Polak averages a little bit less than bad.

okay I just realised something. apparently here if you block someone, you also don't read their quotes. which makes a LOT more sense, now because at first I was like what on earth are you talking about? then I read it, and I was like You answered that a lot more tactfully than I would have.

you write multiple paragraphs because you are capable of communicating like a functioning adult. which we are all appreciative for.

Haha, thanks. Being capable of communicating like a functioning adult is something I take great pride in. As for the tact, it was just not worth getting worked up about. It's the kind of insulting post that mostly just reflects badly on the writer.

 

[diceman934]

The game was so bad it's just a big blur or BS to at this point. I don't even remember who was bad when everything just seemed bad except Rielly, Andersen and Nylander.

Add Marner to the list as well as he was very good other then the giveaway in our zone.

 

[Walshy7]

Add Marner to the list as well as he was very good other then the giveaway in our zone.

I thought he was fantastic in the 1st but then tailed off quite a bit which could be attrinbuted to his line mates also, but still pretty good. Id say he would be at the top of the next list of best players.

 

[Goonface2k14]

The little rat got one game

Flames' Tkachuk suspended one game for spear on Martin - Article - TSN

 

[Walshy7]

The little rat got one game

Flames' Tkachuk suspended one game for spear on Martin - Article - TSN

great well deserved. No matter how soft it looked they need to stop players doing anything to players on the ice from the bench. This time it was a poke next time a slash the kid need reigning in

 

[Daisy Jane]

The little rat got one game

Flames' Tkachuk suspended one game for spear on Martin - Article - TSN

but he got one game for the same action before. it should at least be two.

 

[cookie]

That's exactly what happened.

If this truly was the case, Calgary would be dominating Toronto in the scoring chances category in 5v5 play. Unfortunately for your argument, this was not the case. Had Nylander and Marleau scored (and not hit iron when they did), the game would have a different narrative. Both goalies faced their fair share of chances except that Andersen faced 2 more even strength chances and a lot more shots.

Also worth noting that the Leafs played below average yet again.

 

[Budsfan]