Post-Game Talk: The Maple Andersens beat the Flames. 2-1 (SO)

[supermann_98]

Defense doesn't want to rush the puck for some reason so it resorts to stupid stretch passes. Add in the fact that 1/2 the games are on ACC ice, those stretch passes aren't going to sit on the recipient's stick most of the time anyways. Part of the blame goes to the forwards but it's ridiculousness can be highlighted by how Gardiner handles his breakouts. For a guy that can skate as well as he can, he sure does standby idly, waiting for the perfect opening (only to miss the pass or have the pass tip).

I am disappointed in Jake's play this year, to say the least. But maybe that's just the player he is. I don't know what's going on in his head some of the time. After the Washington series, he's keen on skating 10-to-2 trying to emulate Carlson's PP zone entries....not too effectively but still. Maybe Jake likes flash more than substance.

100% agree. If we played a drinking game and had a shot every time Gardiner had the puck in his own zone barely moving while looking for a homerun pass we’d all be hammered by the end of the 2nd period.

I’m constantly yelling “SKAAATE” at my TV whenever he does this, it is infuriating because when he actually starts to skate he’s usually pretty creative and makes much smarter decisions than when he glides around in “zombie” mode.

I don’t think this is Babs coaching him to do that either, as Reilly takes off most times as soon as he gets the puck with a little bit of room.

 

[ACC1224]

Matthews still looked under the weather. Wasn't dominant on the puck at all tonight. And I'm not pinning that on his linemates. He can create time and space by himself but he wasn't doing it. Nonetheless he did screen Smith on Rielly's goal so he still helped.

Something is still up with him though. Injury or illness, he hasn't looked the same in the last couple of weeks.

First time seeing him live since he was out and he's not the same player as earlier in the year.

I don't mind Hyman with Matthews but the 3rd wheel has to be Nylander or Marner.
Hyman should never be on the ice in OT.

Ice looked terrible, puck was bouncing all over the place.

 

[Daisy Jane]

100% agree. If we played a drinking game and had a shot every time Gardiner had the puck in his own zone barely moving while looking for a homerun pass we’d all be hammered by the end of the 2nd period.

I’m constantly yelling “SKAAATE” at my TV whenever he does this, it is infuriating because when he actually starts to skate he’s usually pretty creative and makes much smarter decisions than when he glides around in “zombie” mode.

I don’t think this is Babs coaching him to do that either, as Reilly takes off most times as soon as he gets the puck with a little bit of room.

me either. Jake is - not very smart some times..
if the mental default for some players is to do X - i don't get why we scream at Babcock for not doing Y. sometimes you need to lay the blame on the players feet. for not using their brains and doing the right thing (which i'd assume the coach is telling them what to do)

 

[Goonface2k14]

Nylander was fantastic. Not his fault we have a spineless coach scared to play for a dominating win.

Babcocks system needs elite d we have elite forwards and average d. Does he adjust? Nope not one bit he just benches the best skater In the game to ensure he gets his one point. I’m sorry but you can’t be the best coach in the game with tactics he employs

Good point on Willy last night, I guess I was being overly general in my comments to try and sum things up quickly. I remember the cuts he made in the offensive zone which made Brodie fall down. Too bad Hughson didn't comment on it much, because it was similar to Datsyuk on Couture (but with skating instead of stickwork). Overall, he was strong on the puck and generated some good chances.

As for Babcock, I continue to give him the benefit of the doubt because of his resume, but I do agree it's puzzling to say the least. I think (hope?) he is coaching for the stretch drive and playoffs. Similar to last season where he didn't have Matthews and Nylander together until later in the season. It gives the players different looks in case of any injuries, it motivates/rewards players for hard work (Brown), and it sends a message that even the best players are accountable for playing strong on both sides of the puck (Marner, Nylander). Nobody is a favourite (ok, maybe Matthews, but he's an understandable exception), everyone has to play the game the right way or other capable players will take their spots. I bet you by March (or maybe earlier), Matthews and Nylander will be on the same line again, just like how it worked out last year, because even Babcock knows that his best chances of winning are pairing those two wonder-kids together again (or maybe Marner-Matthews instead, depending on how the Bozak potential trade or demotion and Nylander at center situations pan out).

 

[ULF_55]

Actually it doesn't mater if we win or lose the Prejudice is still there and so too is the Propaganda and if you read through this thread it still smacks of complaints about nothing, if you have ever coached or played the game, crap happens, the team is not about Robots it's about players (people).

Flames played well and Andersen is why the score favored the Leafs.

 

[Daisy Jane]

“Hot Take”

Over the Leafs' last 10 games, they have surrendered 40+ shots 5 times and have scored just 1 goal 5 times. Of the 7 games in which they collected points during that stretch, 5 of those games included Andersen posting shutouts twice and surrendering only 1 goal 3 times.

LOL. Wake up and watch the team play.

When Andersen isn’t close to perfect, this team is going to lose. Toughest schedule in December and the Leafs are playing like ****. All I can say is, thank god our division sucks.

right now.. when Andersen isn't playing well and how the team is playing right now we will probably lose. just like when Andersen wasn't playing well, right now the Leafs had the offense to bail him out right now.

With this team - it's never going to be as straight forward as you stated it.

and quite frankly, right now we are seeing why Lou got a goalie that could support a young team trying to figure it out.

what would be nice - is that people would remember that the main components of this team is only in their 2nd year in the league, or in their 2nd year on NHL ice (or rookies) and that our coach, rather than saying "go have fun scoring all the goals) is trying to hammer in some defense. Why it's looking like a hot mess, I don't know. Why he won't just be like "Meh, forget about 'defense' - would probably be due to the fact that he wants these players to be individually responsible defensively, so regardless of whom we face in the playoffs, we can play their game, vs hoping for the best.

Comparing this team to Montreal or to when we were truly at our lowest point is not fair to the talent on this team, or what Shanahan is trying to build here and if people honestly can't see that part of the issues of this team has a lot to do with growing pains, and we're still missing a few cogs in the machine we're trying to build.. I truly don't know what to say.

 

[Schennanigans]

We had no business winning this game. Andersen stole this one for us.

 

[ToneDog]

This !

The guy couldn't skate or shoot.

He must lead the NHL in falls.

I believe he is bigger than Johnny hockey but I think think he needs to put get heavier. Smallish players with a low center of gravity are harder to push off the puck. Still 20 so he has plenty of time to grow. I think Mitch and Willie spoiled me/fans last year so they jaded our expectations and we forget how young they are and that just maybe they need more time to develop. There are not many Matthews/McDavids who hit the ground running, continue running and run faster. We can handle physical mistakes but Mitch has to be better mentally because has a high hockey IQ.

 

[Budsfan]

Flames played well and Andersen is why the score favored the Leafs.

That's exactly what happened.

 

[ToneDog]

Last night's Freddie reminded me of game #1 Freddie. Confident, square to the puck and slow and steady movements. At least when he was not being bowled over by the Flames.

 

[Not My Tempo]

Actually it doesn't mater if we win or lose the Prejudice is still there and so too is the Propaganda and if you read through this thread it still smacks of complaints about nothing, if you have ever coached or played the game, crap happens, the team is not about Robots it's about players (people).

I’m sorry but that’s actually a ridicoulous take. For example, in October there were a ton of people, myself included, that were complaining about Freddy’s play. Since the start of November he’s been playing like a top 3 goalie and he’s shut most if not all of us up. He’s been unbelievable. It’s not prejudice and propaganda. He’s given us a reason to shut up. The last few games, we haven’t been playing well. There are issues, and whenever we win it’s usually because Freddy Andersen has been masking them. It’s a little more than “crap happens”

 

[saltming]

First time seeing him live since he was out and he's not the same player as earlier in the year.

I don't mind Hyman with Matthews but the 3rd wheel has to be Nylander or Marner.
Hyman should never be on the ice in OT.

Ice looked terrible, puck was bouncing all over the place.

That line misses Nylander for his zone entries alone.

 

[Cor]

Another thing that’s kinda funny

Earlier in the year; “Freddy has got to be better! He needs to be able to steal us games!”

Now; “Freddy has had to steal some games for us recently! We suck!!”

It’s like, people want Freddy to steal us games, but when he does, it’s actually a bad thing too.

 

[LeafGrief]

Remember how much we sucked in November last year? Remember how good we were by April?

This is still a team made up of kids. A whole bunch of sophomores aren't consistently elite yet, consider me shocked. Good teams win games they shouldn't and we're a good team. Our underlying numbers could be better and suggest some regression, but they don't scream "CARLYLE LEAFS" either. I think it's far more likely that the boys pull their heads out of their butts and play up to their abilities instead of playing even worse and regressing.

 

[Budsfan]

I’m sorry but that’s actually a ridicoulous take. For example, in October there were a ton of people, myself included, that were complaining about Freddy’s play. Since the start of November he’s been playing like a top 3 goalie and he’s shut most if not all of us up. He’s been unbelievable. It’s not prejudice and propaganda. He’s given us a reason to shut up. The last few games, we haven’t been playing well. There are issues, and whenever we win it’s usually because Freddy Andersen has been masking them. It’s a little more than “crap happens”

So when we played Edmonton and Russell scored into his own net, that means he is a really bad player, crap happens even to other teams and players.

There are a lot of what was once called "Armchair Quarterbacks" and in our case "Armchair Coaches" that think they could do better, that now is ridiculous.

 

[Sypher04]

Remember how much we sucked in November last year? Remember how good we were by April?

This is still a team made up of kids. A whole bunch of sophomores aren't consistently elite yet, consider me shocked. Good teams win games they shouldn't and we're a good team. Our underlying numbers could be better and suggest some regression, but they don't scream "CARLYLE LEAFS" either. I think it's far more likely that the boys pull their heads out of their butts and play up to their abilities instead of playing even worse and regressing.

They do suggest some regression in some aspects, but not in others. Marner and Nylander are two huge huge parts of this team and their shooting percentages at this point of the season are absurdly low, especially 5 on 5. Eventually their puck luck has to turn and when it does they'll gain confidence and that could be huge for our offense.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Another thing that’s kinda funny

Earlier in the year; “Freddy has got to be better! He needs to be able to steal us games!”

Now; “Freddy has had to steal some games for us recently! We suck!!”

It’s like, people want Freddy to steal us games, but when he does, it’s actually a bad thing too.

Yup. It's true, a good goalie should steal a game for you every now and then and lately he's doing it.

Overall I believe our record (by PPG%, not the Pejorative Slured "just points" method) shows us to be a top 10 team. And Freddie's stats are on the verge of being top 10, just slightly below I think. So ATM, the performance of our goalie is in line with the overall performance of our team. Some nights we're better than others (just like every other team) but overall, our goalie is good and the team is good. A work in progress but trending well, better than last year which is good so by all indications, we're on the right track.

So ... what's everyone freaking out about??

 

[Daisy Jane]

Another thing that’s kinda funny

Earlier in the year; “Freddy has got to be better! He needs to be able to steal us games!”

Now; “Freddy has had to steal some games for us recently! We suck!!”

It’s like, people want Freddy to steal us games, but when he does, it’s actually a bad thing too.

 

[Daisy Jane]

Yup. It's true, a good goalie should steal a game for you every now and then and lately he's doing it.

Overall I believe our record (by PPG%, not the ******ed "just points" method) shows us to be a top 10 team. And Freddie's stats are on the verge of being top 10, just slightly below I think. So ATM, the performance of our goalie is in line with the overall performance of our team. Some nights we're better than others (just like every other team) but overall, our goalie is good and the team is good. A work in progress but trending well, better than last year which is good so by all indications, we're on the right track.

So ... what's everyone freaking out about??

people are freaking out because Babcock won't make the line changes that they want, because they think it will work out to be better. (which - for the record - maybe they will). they are also freaking out that our VERY YOUNG team is actually playing like i dunno they are very young. (and some players are playing NOT very smart). and instead of just taking a step back and actually contemplating the following;

1: Babcock is coaching for development. not just to "win" (as I keep seeing people go if Babcock just coached to the teams strengths we'd be unstoppable) - to which I ask again if people honestly legitimately think Babcock looks at his whiteboard, sees everything as his disposal, and is thinking "you know i truly believe this is the way to victory."*


2: the team truly isn't "finished" yet. Trapper keeps bringing this up but people what to kvetch about the"slow" starts. I don't necessarily think they are "Slow" - i think (as @Trapper thinks is that the other team is more capable for the first few minutes (up until 1/2 the period) to set their will on us because they are bigger. THIS is the part of the season where the first "hammer" comes down in systems being more in sync to what the coaches want. Last year we didn't look "polished" until January until we started humming. This year, we're going through the same issues (literally the same issues), but we're actually a LOT better. we still need help but it's not as simple as "Durr Babcock can't get the team to start on time." right now we're waitin' for Lou to bust a move.

3: this team. is young. (and I think Matthews is fighting the crud/injury -he's not been himself for weeks), Marner/Nylander are producing the same 'rate' but just not re: goals etc. but it's like everything has to be video-game perfect.


we are "not" montreal. this is NOT carlyle/wilson leafs.
people just want to borrow trouble. and this isn't a "well we're 2nd in our division wherever in the League" post, this is a: out of every team (Buffalo, Colorado, etc) team that were sucky around the same time we are, we're the only team in an excellent position despite our youth and inexperience and flaws. and if people honestly think that Andersen is the only reason for this then quite frankly, people need to take a real step back and figure some things out.

 

[TMLeafs18]

I feel bad for Matthews. Brown is a solid player an elite third line guy that can step up to the second when need be. Hyman would be a elite fourth liner that could play on a lot of teams third line. There's no reason to have them both on the first line. Between the two of them it leaves Matthews to do a lot of the heavy lifting offensively. All I ask is Babcock at least put Nylander back to where he should be. We have what most NHL teams don't have in a franchise centre and it seems like we are wasting it a bit.

 

[Walshy7]

Another thing that’s kinda funny

Earlier in the year; “Freddy has got to be better! He needs to be able to steal us games!”

Now; “Freddy has had to steal some games for us recently! We suck!!”

It’s like, people want Freddy to steal us games, but when he does, it’s actually a bad thing too.

freddy has stolen us more games than we have won on the back of our skill. that's the problem, stealing one or 2 games absolutely he needs to do sometimes.

babcock sets the lineup not to lose as opposed to win. He is trying to defend and knick a 1-0 or 2-0 win and figures if we keep it close we can get at least a point. I prefer a killer instinct and set the lineup to win ie: Nylander with Matthews, Komarov lower and brown lower. that's were I guess some get the "we suck" from, I for the record don't think we suck

 

[Mugzy97]

So ... what's everyone freaking out about??

Well the lines aren't what some of us would like them to be so that means our coach sucks

 

[TMLeafs18]

Hyman turned the puck over countless times last night. So many offensive positions died on his stick last night. When Matthews and Nylander are together it's much easier to watch because Hyman hardly ever carries the puck in.

 

[Cor]

Well the lines aren't what some of us would like them to be so that means our coach sucks

 

[Mugzy97]

I feel bad for Matthews. Brown is a solid player an elite third line guy that can step up to the second when need be. Hyman would be a elite fourth liner that could play on a lot of teams third line. There's no reason to have them both on the first line. Between the two of them it leaves Matthews to do a lot of the heavy lifting offensively. All I ask is Babcock at least put Nylander back to where he should be. We have what most NHL teams don't have in a franchise centre and it seems like we are wasting it a bit.

What some people seem to forget is that this is his second season and he's only 19/20 years old. Maybe he is playing on the 3rd line in a developmental role?