Salary Cap: The Hotdog Days of Summer

[madinsomniac]

Just to play devil's advocate, doesn't the Media here and a lot of fans blame our talent whenever we don't win? how many "trade Malkin" or "Sid didn't do enough" rants do we get here every non cup year? Its human nature to blame failures at the guys making the most money... even if there has never been one player capable of totally carrying a team's offense or defense...

 

[SprootsMasterFlex]

 

[ColePens]

I might really like the Ducks next season. Low risk

 

[Speaking Moistly]

Just to play devil's advocate, doesn't the Media here and a lot of fans blame our talent whenever we don't win? how many "trade Malkin" or "Sid didn't do enough" rants do we get here every non cup year? Its human nature to blame failures at the guys making the most money... even if there has never been one player capable of totally carrying a team's offense or defense...

Media doing that isn't uncommon because it's usually the easiest thing to do, the Toronto media takes to to ridiculous and hilarious levels. It's like British tabloids/press vs American tabloids/press, both do sketchy things but the British ones are downright vicious and vile.

There's "it's the talent's fault for not producing more" and "the talent didn't produce enough, is a locker room cancer, is lazy and eats badly because they don't care." With at least the diet thing being caught as a lie.

 

[Ugene Magic]

Ducks are just going to try and brute their way to the finals.

 

[cajal]

You guys will realize one thing. The only thing that matters is winning Cups. I think we are going into a new era for the NHL. I don't think it's always going tobe the young teams winning Cups. It just so happened that the new NHL had some amazing talent from Sid, GEno, Ovy, Stamkos, Kane, Toews, etc. and all of those teams built monsters. I don't think being cap strapped is a reason you will lose the Playoffs.

I really feel that the next 5-10 years is going to be wide open w/ multiple choices to win the Cup. I DAMN sure know Chicago will be there. I know LA/Pittsburgh will be strong contenders. I know young teams like Columbus, NYI, and a few other teams are going to be TOUGH outs.

I think the cap strapped teams are going to be contenders and the playoffs are going to be more wide open than usual. I just cannot stand when fans say "GOOD LUCK CHICAGO AND PITTSBURGH WITH THAT CAP SPACE LULZ." It doesn't matter. THey are going to be good teams. Period.

As for the smear campaigns, **** it. Nobody wins a Cup in the offseason. PK and the gang can end all talk about everything simply by going out there and getting a 2nd Stanley Cup.

Multiple cups are awarded to (almost) every team on HF every off-season, and it has been that way for as long as I have read this site... and many others.

It's total BS, but winning trades and (now) managing the cap are more important than winning Lord Stanley to many. I'm glad I got into hockey long before the internet. Remembering back to drafting Lemieux or the multiple trades that helped bring two cups to the Pens in the early 90s, the suggestion was made that the Pens would be improved (duh), not that they would be world beaters because of said moves.

Many hockey journalists/fans grew up with hockey video games and I believe that they view the real game through that lens. JMO.

Edit: I love the extended coverage of hockey over the last several decades, so that's the bonus that came with technology.

 

[penzweiser]

So here's a thought to getting rid of Scuderi and at least getting some production back for that money. Trade Scuderi and a pick to Chicago for Bickell. Chicago gets a little cap relief and we add a bigger body that performs in the playoffs. Then trade Kunitz for a prospect, pick or more #4 Dman on a contract cheaper than Kunitz.

Perron-Crosby-Hornqvist
Bickell-Malkin-Kessel
Plotnikov-Sutter-Dupuis
Wilson-Sundqvist-Bennett

Thoughts???

 

[Boocock]

So here's a thought to getting rid of Scuderi and at least getting some production back for that money. Trade Scuderi and a pick to Chicago for Bickell. Chicago gets a little cap relief and we add a bigger body that performs in the playoffs. Then trade Kunitz for a prospect, pick or more #4 Dman on a contract cheaper than Kunitz.

Perron-Crosby-Hornqvist
Bickell-Malkin-Kessel
Plotnikov-Sutter-Dupuis
Wilson-Sundqvist-Bennett

Thoughts???

No. Bickell's play & his contract make that a bad deal for the Pens. We're talking about a guy that was scratched in the Finals, and he has a $4mil cap hit. This "postseason hero" put up just 5 assists in 18 playoff games (no goals).

 

[penzweiser]

No. Bickell's play & his contract make that a bad deal for the Pens. We're talking about a guy that was scratched in the Finals, and he has a $4mil cap hit. This "postseason hero" put up just 5 assists in 18 playoff games (no goals).

And Scuderi is a huge minus for us, if rather trade hand and a 3rd for nothing but I don't think the pens will. I'm just thinking outside the box. We do need a big bodied forward

 

[Ogrezilla]

Stewart seems like a good guy to target to try to replace Besleskey. Makes sense.

 

[AjaxTelamon]

I think it all comes down to what Armstrong, a good-natured guy by all accounts and someone who knows how to get along in a room, said about Kessel:



http://www.sportsnet.ca/590/prime-time-sports/how-do-teammates-perceive-phil-kessel/

Kessel's a helluva talent. But he's not a leader type, he's not good with the media, and he's not a guy to do dirty work in the trenches when the going gets tough.

Generally speaking, a lot of that stuff is reasonably expected of a guy getting franchise money. Pittsburgh might be the one place where Kessel can get by without the burden of those expectations.

We saw firsthand the criticism that a guy like Neal got for not battling in the trenches like this board wanted, despite being a sniper who regularly produced at a 40 goal and 80 point pace, and he was making 3 mil less per than Kessel. He didn't create on his own like Kessel, but I think the same reasoning applies.

My main issue with the guy was the failure to produce when it counted, failure to go to the net, and the absolutely moronic selfish penalties. He continues to do the same crap with Nashville. He has double the PIM's Kessel has over his career, usually like 25 or 30 a year, and they're all slashes, hooks, elbows, dives and similar nonsense.

I never expected Neal to battle along the boards, and in fact, Lemieux never battled on the boards either. That's not their game.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Is that the same kirk that posts here? lol

No idea. Rarely visit that place. This is the only hockey board I really read.

Maybe click on that poster's history and see if they ramble a lot and start their deep thoughts with the word "Look" a lot.

My main issue with the guy was the failure to produce when it counted, failure to go to the net, and the absolutely moronic selfish penalties. He continues to do the same crap with Nashville. He has double the PIM's Kessel has over his career, usually like 25 or 30 a year, and they're all slashes, hooks, elbows, dives and similar nonsense.

I never expected Neal to battle along the boards, and in fact, Lemieux never battled on the boards either. That's not their game.

Kessel is good on the boards when he gets the urge to venture into the trenches. He is really good at pulling pucks out of scrums with his kind of mitts, and he has a much faster step off the boards than Neal could ever dream.

Kessel is more likely to support a cycle off the wall and let the puck come to him though. He has some habits that will frustrate this board, but I warned people about that right after the trade.

If they gave max effort along the boards, Kessel would blow Neal out of the water. He has much better hands, use of leverage, puck protection skills, power and most importantly balance.

 

[Asuna]

No idea. Rarely visit that place. This is the only hockey board I really read.

Me too.

Maybe click on that poster's history and see if they ramble a lot and start their deep thoughts with the word "Look" a lot.

Well the first post in the thread was pretty long, so maybe

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Ducks are just going to try and brute their way to the finals.

Hey, it worked for them once.

My main issue with the guy was the failure to produce when it counted, failure to go to the net, and the absolutely moronic selfish penalties. He continues to do the same crap with Nashville. He has double the PIM's Kessel has over his career, usually like 25 or 30 a year, and they're all slashes, hooks, elbows, dives and similar nonsense.

We've been over Neal's production in the playoffs, and we're not going to see eye to eye there. He produced every single playoff run when playing with a scoring line center. Every one. All anyone can do is nitpick about how his playoff production was distributed, which is pretty dubious in my books.

Kessel ain't going to the net any more than Neal. Neal takes some dumb penalties to be sure, but his more physical game inherently invites more penalties than Kessel too.

I never expected Neal to battle along the boards, and in fact, Lemieux never battled on the boards either. That's not their game.

Then you're in the minority. That was one of the criticisms I heard here over and over.

Bottom line is that Neal produced a ton for 3 mil per less than Kessel and still got raked over the coals for what he didn't do. It's easy to see how Kessel could be maligned in a market where he was paid to be "the guy" but wasn't suited for that role.

 

[mpp9]

I expected Neal to use his size. He's not skilled enough to get by on floating out there while being our highest paid winger at the time.

Kessel is. That's the difference.

 

[Nakawick]

You guys will realize one thing. The only thing that matters is winning Cups. I think we are going into a new era for the NHL. I don't think it's always going tobe the young teams winning Cups. It just so happened that the new NHL had some amazing talent from Sid, GEno, Ovy, Stamkos, Kane, Toews, etc. and all of those teams built monsters. I don't think being cap strapped is a reason you will lose the Playoffs.

I really feel that the next 5-10 years is going to be wide open w/ multiple choices to win the Cup. I DAMN sure know Chicago will be there. I know LA/Pittsburgh will be strong contenders. I know young teams like Columbus, NYI, and a few other teams are going to be TOUGH outs.

I think the cap strapped teams are going to be contenders and the playoffs are going to be more wide open than usual. I just cannot stand when fans say "GOOD LUCK CHICAGO AND PITTSBURGH WITH THAT CAP SPACE LULZ." It doesn't matter. THey are going to be good teams. Period.

As for the smear campaigns, **** it. Nobody wins a Cup in the offseason. PK and the gang can end all talk about everything simply by going out there and getting a 2nd Stanley Cup.

I personally think our best shots to win the cup will be the next 3 years while Sid, Geno and the core is in their prime with a young blueline that should only get better. I don't want to say that the window on this era closes in three years, but after the early thirties it is hard to say how much or how fast players may start to regress.

Teams like Columbus, Buffalo and Tampa should all be strong in three years and there is an arms race going on between the Alberta teams that will be a force in the near future as well as well as the Hawks, Kings, perhaps Colorado.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I expected Neal to use his size. He's not skilled enough to get by on floating out there while being our highest paid winger at the time.

Kessel is. That's the difference.

Do you see how this argument translates to why Kessel caught so much heat in Toronto?

Neal scored at a 40 goal/80 point pace every year for 5 mil per. That is absolutely worth the money, and his size is irrelevant - as is the fact that he was our highest paid winger. It isn't Neals' fault that he was our highest paid winger any more than it was Kessel's that he was the Leafs' highest paid player. But they were both criticized because of what they didn't do with the responsibility that their status suggested.

 

[Your Boy Troy]

Maybe I was just a massive James Neal homer. However, I never understood the ******** of criticism he got. He's a damn good complementary forward. The chemistry that he had with Malkin was amazing. Had his flaws like his play in the defensive zone and the occasional dirty plays as well. I can look past that because the guy scored goals; which is most important obviously. His playoffs performances were sometimes unsatisfying, but the same could be said about any forward not named Malkin or Jokinen (2014 playoffs). Thought he did awesome in his previous two seasons with the Pens.

I'm just happy that this team has a legitimate goal scorer again in Kessel. He gives the team more balance in the line-up; makes the Hornqvist trade better.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Maybe I was just a massive James Neal homer. However, I never understood the ******** of criticism he got. He's a damn good complementary forward. The chemistry that he had with Malkin was amazing. Had his flaws like his play in the defensive zone and the occasional dirty plays as well. I can look past that because the guy scored goals; which is most important obviously. His playoffs performances were sometimes unsatisfying, but the same could be said about any forward not named Malkin or Jokinen. Thought he did awesome in his previous two seasons with the Pens.

I'm just happy that this team has a legitimate goal scorer again in Kessel. He gives the team more balance in the line-up; makes the Hornqvist trade better.

 

[Penguinator]

When Neal left it created a hole that Hornqvist couldn't fill, however, Hornqvist filled a hole that Neal couldn't fill. Very different players.

Now though, we have Kessel to fill that Neal hole & he's better at it too.

Huh, that didn't sound quite right but you get my take.

 

[eXile59]

When Neal left it created a hole that Hornqvist couldn't fill, however, Hornqvist filled a hole that Neal couldn't fill. Very different players.

Now though, we have Kessel to fill that Neal hole & he's better at it too.

Huh, that didn't sound quite right but you get my take.

Pretty much spot on actually.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

When Neal left it created a hole that Hornqvist couldn't fill, however, Hornqvist filled a hole that Neal couldn't fill come playoff time. Very different players.

Now though, we have Kessel to fill that Neal hole & he's better at it too.

Huh, that didn't sound quite right but you get my take.

Looks perfect now.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

Neal was just a frustrating player because sometimes he'd show you the player he could be and then he'd be back to his usual. Him trying to make the Olympic team compared to after he failed to sucked for the team and was fairly damning in my eyes. And through **** team building they needed him to be more than he normally was because a certain someone didn't understand forwards.

Kessel has more skills to get away with negatives and the winger situation is much better. They upgraded on the standard Neal, have Hornqvist's skill set and what Perron brings. Neal has an amazing shot but this is a better configuration and even now there will still be negatives to all three of them.

 

[ColePens]

Maybe I was just a massive James Neal homer. However, I never understood the ******** of criticism he got. He's a damn good complementary forward. The chemistry that he had with Malkin was amazing. Had his flaws like his play in the defensive zone and the occasional dirty plays as well. I can look past that because the guy scored goals; which is most important obviously. His playoffs performances were sometimes unsatisfying, but the same could be said about any forward not named Malkin or Jokinen (2014 playoffs). Thought he did awesome in his previous two seasons with the Pens.

I'm just happy that this team has a legitimate goal scorer again in Kessel. He gives the team more balance in the line-up; makes the Hornqvist trade better.

No you are right. We needed a Hornqvist type player. We also needed a Neal type player. that's why we now have kessel. Kunitz should have been the odd man out, but I'm sure Nashville valued Nea more.

The ideal situation was that we had both. That would have been nice.


Edit... Penguinator beat me to it.

 

[Corvidae]

No. Bickell's play & his contract make that a bad deal for the Pens. We're talking about a guy that was scratched in the Finals, and he has a $4mil cap hit. This "postseason hero" put up just 5 assists in 18 playoff games (no goals).

This is a huge reason as to why Chicago is on the verge of a dyasty and the Penguins aren't. They scratch or get rid of underperformaing players / garbage. The Penguins keep them and give their corpses top 4 / top 6 minutes.