GMR
Registered User
What makes Toews better than Kane or Keith?
Nothing in my book. Last year, NBCN ranked him #2 on their list of greatest captains of All Time. Not sure what makes him a better captain than everyone besides Beliveau.
What makes Toews better than Kane or Keith?
Nothing in my book. Last year, NBCN ranked him #2 on their list of greatest captains of All Time. Not sure what makes him a better captain than everyone besides Beliveau.
Interesting. I think I would have Tikkanen and Weight easily above Lowe and Smyth. Smyth tends to a bit over-valued, I think, for reasons I don't understand.Edmonton Oilers:
1. Wayne Gretzky
2. Mark Messier
3. Jari Kurri
4. Paul Coffey
5. Grant Fuhr
6. Glenn Anderson
7. Kevin Lowe
8. Ryan Smyth
9. Esa Tikkanen
10. Doug Weight
Is Bourque on the Avs list? He played only one season there and they retired his friggin' jersey!
One season plus from March 6th of the previous season, so 1.1 seasons and two playoffs.Two seasons (of their first six in Denver)...
I would say, broadly speaking, that I advocated for older players and to make sure defensemen got their due relative to forwards
My main problem with the list is Wendel Clark’s placing. How can you possible justify placing him at 40, with players like Curtis Joseph who played 5 years there, and Bryan McCabe, (Bryan mccabe are you kidding me?) above him, along with a bunch of mediocre players from the 60’s. Clark deserves atleast top 20 and probably closer to top ten. Also there was too heavy emphasis on the 60’s for the leafs. 10 players who played in the 60’s in the top 25? Team success does not equal individual player greatness and I think that is even more true when there are 6 teams in the league and lots is based on winning cups. Wendel Clark bleed blue for the leafs and seeing him at 40 is a disgrace.I guess I should admit that I'm responsible for the positions of a lot of players on every one of these lists. I was employed as a consultant throughout this project and wrote a long novel for each of the 30 teams between February and August, detailing who should move up and down. The vast majority of these lists (put together by a THN panel) were very good to begin with; it was often just a small handful of players who were out of place. I would say, broadly speaking, that I advocated for older players and to make sure defensemen got their due relative to forwards.
In addition, the part about the defunct teams was put together completely by me. I see in the final product the harsh reality of editing, but that's essentially me and those are my top-10 rankings. The final page is mostly based on an interview with me about ranking players from different eras.
Any questions? I do plan on answering previous posts in this thread to explain/justify rankings, or even to agree with you - the rankings didn't always go the way I hoped.
Wondering what Toews has accomplished that Kane hasn't. Being born in Canada?
No Denis Savard in the top 10 Hawks?
Honestly, the samples you provided look very good. Much better than what is usually expected from the mainstream media. I am pleasantly surprised at Gardiner making it into the top 10, and over Esposito to boot. However, Toews is massively overrated. I wouldn't have him before Keith at 9th. He'd be somewhere around Savard.
Did they have the sense to put Lidstrom at #2 for Detroit? And were both Datsyuk and Zetterberg in the Top 10?
Benn and Hartsburg?
I'd rather honor Calder winner and franchise highest individual scoring season holder (114 pts) Bobby Smith, the franchise's 1st round 1st overall pick who led the North Stars on its first-ever Stanley Cup run in 1981 and is top-5 in franchise career scoring.
Choosing Benn screams of "We gotta include a guy from today for that part of the fanbase unfamiliar with the franchise's history." Benn has 3 great years and one good playoff postseason. I guess him being a 4-year captain right now helps.
I'd rather honor for the franchise the 7-year captain heart-and-soul guy Brenden Morrow, who has led the guys through four playoffs with winning series, including two conference final runs. Heck, Morrow has more career goals as a Star than Benn does!
Hartsburg isn't top-10 in games played or points. He did captain the club for one and a bit years, then when Bellows struggled with the pressure of captaincy (I recall well), Hartsburg took over the captaincy for two more seasons and the bit of two more. He was touted early in his career and went to three all-star games three of his first four seasons in Minnesota. He played just 570 games for the team and had 413 points, a decent passer who led the team in blueline scoring in each of the six full seasons he played. He was 7th in North Stars scoring in their 1981 cup run, though his 15 points in 19 games were significant, one more than any other blueliner in town.
Interesting note, Jaromir Jagr made the list for 4 separate clubs.
Pittsburgh - 3
Washington - 30
New York - 38
Florida - 23
Is he twenty-third on FLA's list based on performance or because because he's ******** Jaaaaarrrrooooommmmiiirrrrrr Jaaaaaagggggggrrrrrr?
Yes, he's one of the GOAT, but he played for FLA for a little over two years as a 40+ year old.
I know FLA hasn't had an abundance of great players... but it's surprising he's in their top 25.
I can only imagine who the 90-100th players for teams like FLA and CLB are.
Well, I think it speaks more towards the quality of players that have played for the organization and I mean no disrespect to fans of the franchise. I mean..Bill Lindsay is ranked at 20, and guys like Rostislav Olesz, Peter Worrell, Mike Weaver and Gregory Campbell cracked the top 50.
Not dissing jagr, but i can't see him as 2 for pens. Don't see any way you place him above Crosby or malkin
Hartsburg is a top 3 defenseman for the franchise. I get the questioning his top 10 placement given the amount of hockey he missed, but given just how good he was, and the fact that there really isn't anyone behind him with too strong a case, I have to like the placement.
Glad to hear Goldsworthy is place fairly high. I'm not sure who I'd move in order to slide him up, but I wouldn't complain if he was placed a bit higher. The guy was great for us and needs to be recognized.
Benn is also the only Art Ross winner in the team's history is already 9th in team scoring, and will likely pass Morrow this month. I don't see why it'd be a case of having to get a new guy on there, I think it's a case of him clearly being a top 10 talent to play for the team, even if he doesn't have the years and playoffs yet.
Barrasso and Letang stick out for the Pens. Seems like Francis is always the guy who gets put 5th there. And I had a discussion about Letang as potentially the top blueliner for the Pens on the main boards recently, but it seems odd to see him there and Coffey and Murphy out of the top 10. Though I suppose they could be just outside.
Coffey is 13, Murphy 16. Thought it was interesting they have Ron Stackhouse the Pens 2nd best defenseman at 12.
Where's Hart trophy runner-up Lionel Hitchman, who captained them to their first four ever regular season top seeds and first Stanley Cup? His #3 was the first jersey to be retired by Boston and only the second ever in the NHL behind the sympathetic retirement of severely injured Ace Bailey's in Toronto.
Where's HHOF-inducted Fern Flaman, the three-time Norris trophy finalist and best Bruin blueliner of the Original-Six era?
And Chara is 10th among all Bruins at every position???
Is he ahead of Johnny Bucyk? Milt Schmidt? Tiny Thompson? I hope not.
If Kane keeps up his play for a bit longer I think you can argue he should be number #1 for Chicago when he retires.
Interesting list. Really not crazy bad at first glance.
I find it odd that they did 50 for each team. The talent would have to get pretty thin there near the end
No offense to Keon (he was a winner and obviously a good player), but please tell me he's not number one for Toronto.
Apps or Conacher would be my choice.
That Toronto list is much better than the "official" one on nhl.com last year. That one didn't even have Conacher in the top 10.
Refreshing good lists, even if there of course will be some minor (and probably a few large...) things to argue about. One in here for me. I really think Zetterberg has been a greater player for the Red Wings than Datsyuk. Even with Datsuyks more shining peak, where I think Z was underrated as a defensive player as well - Z was more often asigned with the heaviest duty of the two. Most remerable Crosby in the Cup finals of course.
Fleury surpassed Barrasso as the best goalie in franchise history.
Serious congrats for putting Charlie Gardiner ahead of Tony Esposito.
Not quite what I'd have (I'd probably swap Lalonde with Dryden; I'd probably swap Sundin with F. Mahovlich, and put Matthews ahead of Syl Apps), but VERY, VERY good.
i wonder how many guys made a franchise’s top 50 for a one-season stint.
obvious recent example would be pronger in edmonton.
struggling to think if other examples. stillman in tampa? any deadeline rentals make a top 50 list?
Of course Hull was a better player just on raw talent, but as for who meant more to the Hawks? As long as Kane doesn't fall off a cliff I think you could very easily say him.
He should end up 1st in goals, assists and points for both regular season and playoffs, should play his entire career in Chicago.
For as great as Hull was he still only brought Chicago 1 cup in a 6 team league.. Kane already has done it three times while being the main force behind it (Or I guess 1a/1b with Keith)
Kane could also very well win another Hart and Art Ross again as well, if he keeps up his game it will be alot closer then many would like to admit.
Is Bourque on the Avs list? He played only one season there and they retired his friggin' jersey!
For Vancouver
1 H Sedin
2 Bure
3 D Sedin
4 Naslund
5 Linden
6 Luongo
7 Smyl
8 Gradin
9 McLean
10 Kesler
Thanks!
(and I'd have liked to see those two back to back if I could have helped it)
Good list again! Could also see Linden moving up behind Bure, based on how he is seen in that franchise. And D Sedin at the same time probably has an argument for 2nd place. Actually. H Sedin, Naslund and Bure also all have a big or small argument for being their greatest player. But Naslund could also be behind D Sedin, as he is. And Linden could be argued greatest Canuck, but not best. Tricky top 5.
And not sure about Kesler, but I´m probably underrating him. But to me he didn´t have as many top seasons as a Canuck as his rumour was. Just from Swefinland I think Lumme and Ohlund could be ahead. And Bertuzzis peak makes an argument. Would also love to get Tanti in to the top 10. But I can´t make that argument myself
Agreed on that! They are so close that having players between them is hard and a bit unfair. Even if not same team, kind of like I always like to put Sakic and Yzerman after one another.
He really wasn't a top-5 winger in the game at any point (McCabe might have been top 5 at his position for a year or two, Joseph definitely peaked in that range).
more on this late, but that's not the vancouver list... that was HIS vancouver list
As for McCabe: He's arguably the best defenseman the Leafs have had this century, and while that's not saying that much, he did have a high peak. He placed fourth in Norris voting in 2004. He was very good until his injury in early 2006. He was a beast in the first half of 2006 and the Leafs didn't win a single game he missed that season. After returning from his injury, he was never quite the same, but he still finished with 68 points that season.
i don’t follow the leaves closely so would love to hear if i am wrong, but is there really an argument for mccabe over kaberle?