The HFNHL Regret Thread

[Hossa]

I've had this idea for a while, and with the season still weeks away might as well give it a shot. We all like to post threads patting ourselves on the back. So how about a thread about our failed trades, busted draft picks, or botched free agent signings.

I'm just going from memory on my own:

Worst trade: Mikko Koivu and a draft pick for Jeff Taffe.

At the time, both were prospects, and I had been growing a bit impatient with Koivu's development in Finland. He hadn't come over and Taffe looked like an equally good prospect on a better development curve. I had seen Taffe at a rookie tournament in Gatineau and he impressed a lot. Somehow I even gave up a draft pick in the trade, maybe even as high as a third. Worst of all, Koivu was a key return on I believe a Pavel Bure trade when I first started my rebuild.

Obviously the trade hasn't worked out. Koivu has turned into a first line center and a sim stud, whereas Taffe is a AAAA player at best. Finally on his first one-way deal of his career, Taffe will hopefully play on the fourth line. He's still on my roster after all these years. I'm struggling with this trade to this day.

HM: Kimmo Timonen for Nick Boynton, and then Nick Boynton for Maxime Ouellet.

Worst Draft Pick: Anthony Stewart, 23rd overall, 2003 entry draft.

Lots of teams miss on late first round picks, but doing so in 2003 hurts a lot. I already had Staal drafted, and when the 23rd pick came around I really wasn't sure. My hunch was Brent Seabrook, followed by Anthony Stewart. I also liked Corey Perry, but he seemed like a reach at this point. Picking Stewart was definitely a fateful decision.

Whereas Seabrook would be on my first pairing right now, and other guys like Jeff Carter and MIke Richards went behind Stewart as well, Fat Tony is a legitimate bust in the first round of the century. Even worse, he looked like a stud after I drafted him. Thankfully I dealt him in a trade for Markus Naslund before his value bottomed out.

HM: Wes O'Neill, 30th overall, 2004 entry draft.

Worst Signing: Mikka Pyorala, 4 years, 1,250,000M.

There aren't any really bad signings that stand out in my mind because aside from Brodeur I don't recall ever really signing any real roster players as a free agent. A couple players were re-signed to slightly inflated contracts, but nothing that was unmovable. Pyorala had to be bought out after completely flopping in North America this past year.

HM: David McKee (for having more success in his career as a criminal than as a hockey player).

Click to read more...

 

[Vagrant]

I have only been here a short time, and I can already name a few really large gaffes on my part.

Worst Trade(s) - Giving up Martin St. Louis for Mike Comrie and Linus Omark. He would be the instant star winger that my club really lacks and the jury is still out on Omark. Despite some pretty decent numbers from Comrie, this one stings pretty badly unless Omark is able to be a 50 point player.

Drew Doughty for John Tavares. File this one under, "too early to call it", but it isn't looking very optimistic right now. I wanted to shake the last regime's draft selection, but it turns out it could have meant trading the next generational talent on defense. Even if Tavares develops into a 40 goal man, this deal could still be bad for me.

Then, in my first month of being a GM here, this one:

To WAS:
RW Martin St. Louis
D Scott Hannan


To CBJ:
D Mark Giordano
WAS 1st 2010
Prospect C Adam Henrique
Prospect RW Kirill Petrov
Prospect LW Dane Byers
$1 million


Giordano scored 30 points last year for the Flames from the blueline. The 2010 1st ended up as the 9th overall pick (Jack Campbell), which would have likely been used on Burmistrov or Skinner had I taken the pick. Henrique and Petrov were later reacquired in a generous deal, but the damage was done considering the paltry return I picked up in return for St. Louis.


Worst Draft Pick: Luke Duprey (5th Round, 2009) - He turned out to be the big, sturdy, 6 foot 5 inches tall..... full time lacrosse player. He's off to play for the famed Duke Lacrosse team. You can't make this kind of thing up. He was unceremoniously cut last year.... less than 11 months after being drafted by me and giving up hockey all together.

 

[Tampa GM]

Worst Trade(s):I traded both Brad Richards and Vincent LeCavalier during my first years as a Tampa GM. Not sure which one was worst, I believe I got Pierre Turgeon in the Vinny trade however...

Worst Draft Pick: Kris Beech 6th overall in 1999. Henrik Sedin went 5th and til this day I cant believe why I didnt trade my 6th and 10th overall and moved up to get Henrik, if only I could turn back time.

HM: Kiril Safranov 14th overall in 1999.

Worst Signingierre Turgeon Summer 2002

Pierre Turgeon had been with Tampa the previous season as well and earned 3.000.000M$. I guess I didnt wanna loose him to free agency so I signed him to a 4 year deal worth 7.500.000M$ for Pierre Turgeon! Hello??

 

[Ohio Jones]

Worst trade: Lots of trades I'd probably like to have back, but none sticks out so much as James Neal to Florida for Aaron Ward. Neal had regressed, or so it seemed, the season following his draft year, and skating concerns had me wondering whether he could make it in the "new" NHL. Ward had very favourable ratings at the time, and I thought I needed the help to shore up my blueline for a serious run. The run didn't materialize (at least not during Ward's tenure with the team), and we all know what Neal has gone on to do.

Dishonourable mentions: Trading Dennis Wideman away to rent Bob Boughner (albeit as a #6 d-man in my SCF appearance; trading Gionta away in my first year or so with the team (maybe 2002? - no idea what I got in return, but it couldn't have been much).

Worst draft pick: Have to be Lars Jonsson, if only because of his draft position, 7th overall in 2000 when I was still Washington's GM - but that was such a poor draft year, only 3 NHLers of note got selected in the first round after #7 - Frolov, Boyes and Volchenkov. In the glorious 2003 draft, I took Steve Bernier at #13, one pick before Ryan Getzlaf - but at least Bernier is an NHLer (albeit a frustrating one, now finally moved last season, 7 years after being drafted). I took Jeff Tambellini with Detroit's pick at #20 with Carter, Seabrook, Kesler and Richards all still on the board, eventually going 25-28. What can I say: Tambellini looked like he had all the stuff - the speed, the skills, and of course the bloodlines - to be a good one.


Dishonourable mention: Ultimately, I don't regret draft picks - it's rare that you regret it the minute you make it, its only in hindsight that most picks look especially good or bad. But I will give a dishonourable mention to a selection that I regret *not* making, when I was one of many GMs who overlooked Marcel Muller's eligibility this summer, only to have Colorado scoop him in the 6th round (and subsequently trade his rights this past week). I doubt many of us will be making that kind of mistake again!

Worst signing: I've had lots of questionable signings over years - $5 million signing bonuses to each of Patrice Brisebois and Keith Carney spring to mind, the kind of moves which led down the path to Columbus' recent fiscal near-meltdown and major restructuring... but for the most part even the financially dodgy signings worked out tolerably well for me. So instead I'll highlight my worst *failure-to-sign*.

I had Philippe Boucher on the cheap coming out of his development years in the AHL, and just when he was finally starting to be an impact player in the NHL, his contract came up. I offered as much as I could afford given my current cap situation, almost $3 million per, but the agents - rightly - balked, and he ended signing a ridiculous contract as a Free Agent at $5 million. The irony: two days after he walked away from me, he signed in the NHL for about $500k less than I had offered. I spent the better part of the next three seasons making a series of relatively ill-advised moves (such as the Neal trade, above) trying to fill that void.

 

[Chuzwazza]

Worst Trade:Can't remember exactly what the deals were as they were ages ago, but I do remember making a major move to get Kris Beech and Ari Ahonen. Beech had just been the centerpiece of the Jagr deal and Ahonen was considered to be the best goalie outside North America. Think i gave up Chistov as the key piece in that deal, which doesn't look so bad, but only cause he was a complete disappointment. I then made the mistake of trading a young Mark Parrish and a solid pick to get Chistov back 3 months later.

Trading Bryan Campbell away for next to nothing comes to mind....4 years before he actually looked like an NHL player

And probably the other bad one was giving up Slava Kozlov, and prospects Kyle Wellwood, Paul Gaustad and Partick Thoresen for Adam Deadmarsh. all were only mid tier prospects at the time, and Deadmash was still a 60+ point power forward back then. of course, after an HFNHL all-star season for me, he suffered that career ending concussion whilst slava went on to be a 50+ point guy for andother 6-7 seasons.

But the worst? Nikolai Zherdev, Scott Hannan, Lukas Krajicek + BUF 1st for Joni Pitkanen, Matt Pettinger and a 3rd. Joni still can make this look good, as I sold both Hannan and Krajicek at the right time....and when Zherdev left it actually looked like I might have won the trade, but his return could push this well into Doug's favour. Oh wait...I forgot something I also gave him in that deal......Olli Jokkinen.....What the hell was I thinking???? Well I know what I was thinking, and it all made sense at the time, but why didn't some slap me before I could make the move?????

Worst Draft Pick:Vladislav Evseev. Was the #2 prospect in the 2002 draft 12 months before it and kept slipping. took him 18th, only to watch him slip to the bruins at 40 in the NHL. The guys so nowhere most statistical databases dont even have him on there anymore regardless which one you choose out of the 34 different ways you can try to spell his name. Kirill Koltsov is another, but only because he didn't come over. The guy's been one of the better D-men in the KHL for the last 4-5 years.

Worst FA Signing: I've been lucky...not really ever forked out big money for FA's that I've regretted. Rob Reichel was good for only one year of a 3 year deal i signed him to, but even that was only like 2.8M or something. Most of the time the big $$$ guys I've taken have been in trades.

Biggest non move rerets: Two still haunt me to this day....in the 3rd round on a fateful draft night, in the wee small hours of the morning that only us Australian GM's have to contend with, on my 9th cup of coffee with 2 picks in the 3rd round only 4 picks apart I knew I wanted a couple of goalies. Sauer and Nokelainen were two that I'd been keeping tabs on for 3rd/4th round picks going into the night, and both were there....easy decision right? except a certain Euro goalie had slipped badly. convinced he would stick around for another 3-4 picks I took Sauer 1st, only to watch Semen Varlamov be selected with the very next pick. it stings every time I have to draft a goalie hoping to land a replacement for Miller in 4-5 years.

Oh and the biggest? Letting Steve Wright talk me out of trading an early 2nd rounder for some Russian kid that started to play well as a rookie back when i was AGM but basically running the team...he told me he projected as a 40-50 point decent two way guy at best and we were better off keeping the pick. I used to pick to take Patrick Thoresen. The guy I got talked out of? Pavel Datsyuk

 

[Dr.Sens(e)]

Worst Trade
Easily my move to acquire Josh Green. I loved his size and hands and felt (like many) he was poised to grow into a legit power forward. He showed flashes of it, but hadn’t put up big numbers yet when I made the move to get him from Chicago. I had offered up Jamal Mayers, who had put up similar numbers and was still young, but Bill Drake wanted more back. I had a great draft in 2002 with a few late round gem d-men that were looking good (Josh Gorges in the 6th, Ian White in the 8th) and I added White to the deal to get the deal done. Mayers and an 8th round pick from the year before – what a steal, I thought! Several years later Mayers remains a versatile checking forward who had a few years of 20+ goals, and White is a legit top 4 d-man who is probably even better in a SIM league, than reality. Green bounced around for several years and I thankfully traded him while he still had a bit of value.

Word FA signing
Not a ton of regrets here, as I’ve always had ample cash to not regret overpaying and have never been a major player in FA given the cap demands of my own team, but probably Keith Tkachuk last year. He immediately regressed in the NHL, making his trade value almost negative with a $5M salary, and he simply did not gel with either of my scoring line centers. I was able to trade him for Recchi, but had to sweeten the deal to get it done given the salary disparity. Would have been easier for me to enter the season with a lot more cap room, and then load up on rentals mid-season. A poor utilization of the cap, in particular given our three tiered cap average system.

Worst Draft pick
In the 1st round, I’ve actually been pretty solid – with mostly late 1st picks – in that I don’t have too many regrets, with the exception of one year – my very first, in 1999. With the 16th overall pick I was really torn, as I was really hoping Saprykin would drop to me at 16. When he was taken 14th overall, I opted for the safe pick in Scott Kelman, who didn’t turn out to be safe at all. Complete and utter bust. The other three players I was considering was Barret Jackman, Jeff Jillson and Martin Havlat. Havlat I had heard his skill was fantastic, but he was ranked lower in the 1st, so I never really considered “reaching” for him at that stage to be honest, but my gut wanted him, but i didn’t have the cajones given this was my first draft. But Jillson and Jackman I did seriously consider, but I’d read a lot of good things about Kelman on message boards while reading about Saprykin (they both played in the WHL for Seattle) and opted for him, given he seemed like a worst case, solid 3rd line center. He was never a 3rd line center in the AHL.

 

[HFNHLOilers]

Worst Deal My worst trade came when my team was going through that horrible slide i think 13game losing streak something crazy like that. I got anxious to make change and get my team back on track. So i pulled the trigger on Scottie Upshall, Roman Hamerlik and a 2nd for White, Sykora, and Sauve. White for Hamerlik is bareble Sauve jury is still out on him entering first pro season but what stings is probably Upshall for Sykora i figured adding abit more offense to my team would be a good thing but it didnt help at all Sykora did very little for me all season even playoffs he was quiet.

I dont really have a worst draft pick yet because i only had my first draft this year so its hard to say if someone is a bust or not just yet.

Worst signing so far i have no regrets about players ive signed Lehitnen is a one year deal and only 2.5million nothing major on my part if he doesnt sign he just goes to prospect list to be dumped later

 

[Dryden]

Nick, was that deal for Josh Green with me after I took over from Drake?

 

[Brent Burns Beard]

PIT

Worst trade ... Umberger, Wolski and Adam Berti for Luc Bourdon and Derek Morris. Sigh, maybe if Bourdon didnt have his tragic accident it might have worked out, but in hindsight, this was a bad trade.

Worst Contract: Alex Tanguay ... 4.9x3 and then he goes and signs for like 1.9x1 in the NHL. Luckily I was able to move him and a 3rd for a 2nd (Alex Petrovic).

Worst Draft Pick: Nikita Alexeev .. little known fact that before I was PIT GM, I was in charge of the Bruins. And yes I selected this slug.

 

[Brock]

Worst Trade

Easiest answer I've ever given. How about like 10 games of Eric Daze for Kevin Bieksa? I traded Bieksa (with a few other minor things) for Daze at the trade deadline to help give me a boost in making the playoffs. Not only did I fail to make the playoffs, but Daze's back problems ended up causing him to retire and Bieksa ended up developing into a top four defenseman.

Worst Draft Pick

Robbie Schremp at 6th overall in 2004. My first draft, I went with the dazzle over the substance. But then again, how many guys from 2004 ended up panning out anyway? And after all, I traded Schremp as part of the deal that brought Shane Doan to me, when his prospect status was still very high.

Worst Signing

Not really sure to be honest. None really stick out in my mind. Maybe Brendan Shanahan at close to five million a couple seasons ago.

 

[HFNHL Commish]

Worst Trade: Surprisingly, it's not my 2008 deal with Vancouver that saw me deal Kevin Bieksa for Brett Lebda, Michael Ratchuk, and cash. At the time, Bieksa was coming off of that hideous sliced tendon injury, and given that Bieksa was going to be due a huge chunk of change with his next contract, I made a calculated move mostly for financial reasons. I thought Ratchuk was going to turn out better than he has, but such is life. Ironically, Sean recently found himself in a position, as well, to have to move Bieksa for financial reasons, but I have to say he did a bit better on the return than I did (Matt Greene).

No, my worst move - the one where I think I made the worst evaluation of talent - would have to be my 2000 deal with Calgary that sent Milan Hejduk and Jonas Andersson to the Flames for Jeff Friesen, Yuri Butsayev, and cash. Butsayev was a fairly significant prospect at the time, but ultimately this deal comes down to Hejduk and Friesen. Both players were 24 at the time, but Friesen had already been in the NHL for 6 seasons, 4 of them 20 goal seasons, 3 of them 60 point seasons. Meanwhile, Hejduk had just put up his first 30 goal, 70 point season. Through my lens, I viewed Friesen as a gritty speed demon who was a clutch performer, whereas I saw Hejduk as a one-trick pony (that one trick being a great shot) who was a product of amazing linemates. After the trade, Friesen never had another 60 point season. As for Hejduk? He averaged 32 goals and 65 points in the 9 seasons following his departure from the Ducks.

Worst Draft Pick: I hate to put up recent draft picks as being "worst", because you still never know if a guy's going to surprise you, but my selection of Michael Forney at 17th overall in the rather mediocre 2006 draft ranks up there on my list of miserable picks. I was between Forney, Patrik Berglund, and Riku Helenius with the pick, and opted for the Minnesota high-schooler with power forward potential. Unfortunately, injuries played a role in preventing Forney from ever getting on track at North Dakota.

Dishonorable Mention: My 2001 first-round compensation pick selection of Alexander Polushin. I selected Polushin instead of Tomas Plekanec. You might be saying "Huh? Matt - you drafted Plekanec." Yes, but if I had followed my plan and drafted him 10 picks earlier instead of trying to first grab the "consensus" pick in Polushin, then I also would have drafted Derek Roy that year. Lesson learned.

Worst FA Signing: My 2007 RFA signing of Nick Boynton, for which I gave up a 1st and a 3rd. I gambled, hoping that Boynton would return to being the same young, budding All-Star blueliner that he was prior to the lockout. I gambled wrong. Coupled with the fact that I didn't have a good 2007-08 season and the 1st ended up being 9th overall, I think it's clear this was a misallocation of resources.

 

[Hossa]

Dishonorable Mention: My 2001 first-round compensation pick selection of Alexander Polushin. I selected Polushin instead of Tomas Plekanec. You might be saying "Huh? Matt - you drafted Plekanec." Yes, but if I had followed my plan and drafted him 10 picks earlier instead of trying to first grab the "consensus" pick in Polushin, then I also would have drafted Derek Roy that year. Lesson learned.

Funny you mentioned Polushin. He deserves a place on my list too probably, being part of that failed prospect haul from you with Pavel Vorobiev.

Worse though, there was a time where I had a ton of offers coming in for Polushin because his stock was pretty high. At one point I even had pretty serious discussions about a Polushin for Zach Parise swap which I just didn't push hard enough for because I wasn't actually a big fan of Parise. That was definitely a missed deal that I wish I'd completed, among others.

 

[Dempsey]

Worst Trades: February of 2006 I had my Kings in full rebuild mode after several seasons of being near the top of the standings only to go out in the first round (usually to the Avs). Most of my depth forwards were aging and not worth re-signing, and I went into full rebuild mode. I had 3 top-rated forwards at the time in Olli Jokinen, Todd Bertuzzi and Glen Murray. These guys were to bring in the next wave of Kings through trades.

For Bertuzzi I got Marek Zagrapan, Dan Fritsche, Aleksander Suglobov and a 2nd (later traded). Luckily I traded Fritsche for Christensen, let Christensen walk as an RFA last year for a 2nd, used the 2nd on Jordan Weal, and traded Weal and Suglobov for Jordan Hendry and a 2011 1st.

For Murray I got Kyle Calder, Tomas Surovy and a 2nd which I used on Alexander Vasyunov.

I also chose (before the above deals) to trade my 1st rounder in 2003 along with Chris Higgins for Brian Leetch for a Stanley Cup push, then proceeded to go out in the first round. The 1st was used on Seabrook and Higgins became a 20 goal scorer a year or two later.

Even though I've listed three bad ones I'll put an honorable mention for worst transaction being putting Aaron Ward on waivers and having him be claimed (no big deal at the time I thought) only to see Ward traded for James Neal a couple months later! My eyes nearly popped out of my head when I saw that deal.

Worst Draft Pick: Almost all GM's who have been here since the beginning have their worst draft pick as their first rounder in one of those early drafts, and the Kings are no different. In 1999 we went with big Alexei Mikhnov out of Russia.

Honorable mention would be sitting at the live draft a couple years ago, on the clock and trying to decide between Jared Staal and Jakub Markstrom. I went with Staal hoping he would develop like crazy like his brothers did after their drafts, but he's done the opposite while every time I hear Markstrom's name I cringe now.

Worst FA Signing: Chris Gratton would still be under contract for 2.4 million a season with me if he hadn't retired (phew).

 

[Dr.Sens(e)]

Nick, was that deal for Josh Green with me after I took over from Drake?

Not sure, Dry - it might have been. I made a few deals with Bill back in the day, but this one might have been with you. Likely occured in '03 or '04, and I'm not sure when you took over the reins in Chicago.

 

[Dryden]

I think it was me. That should be about the time I took over. I'll look into when I took the team over. Should be either my first or second season.

 

[Ohio Jones]

Even though I've listed three bad ones I'll put an honorable mention for worst transaction being putting Aaron Ward on waivers and having him be claimed (no big deal at the time I thought) only to see Ward traded for James Neal a couple months later! My eyes nearly popped out of my head when I saw that deal.

Bah. Way to rub salt in the wound! I'd forgotten that Ward had been a waiver pickup not long before the trade. It's all Boucher's fault, I tell ya!

 

[Dryden]

Nick, was that deal for Josh Green with me after I took over from Drake?

Looking like it was Darren Gill who had the team before me. Maybe a off-season deal between the two of you in the summer of 02. I took over the Hawks that fall

 

[Fooladelfia]

Worst deal since I join HFNHL:

To PHI: Robert Nilsson
To MIN: Marco Sturm

Robert Nilsson sign in Russia one year deal.

 

[MatthewFlames]

Worst trade ... Umberger, Wolski and Adam Berti for Luc Bourdon and Derek Morris. Sigh, maybe if Bourdon didnt have his tragic accident it might have worked out, but in hindsight, this was a bad trade.

Although it really is a shame about Luc.

For the FLAMES

WORST TRADE: Probably the Boyle for Beauchimen trade with the Canucks, though I don't think it hurt seriously. Neither of the prospects I was offered panned out, but Picard's regression after his first season makes this trade bad, as well as Boyles improved play in his own zone. Still had Beauch though for 4 x 900K which only just ended. Only made the trade because I couldn't afford the 3 million salary. How times have changed. I also traded Lydman because I couldn't pay him 2 million for a half a season of Brian Leetch.

Trading Mark Streit when he was a little used player after his first season in Montreal was probably a howler, since I got a Shayne Corson rental out of it, but I'd signed him as a UDFA and thought he was going back to Europe.

Also: I've traded away some prospects, Andreas Nodl, Girardi, Stralman, Riley Holzapfel, which worry me, but I needed the players I got in return at times when my roster was not very deep at all, for Langkow, Phillips, key pieces in my run last year and who have given me 3+ seasons each.

WORST DRAFT PICK: Ondrej Fiala at 14. I was taken by his speed, even though I knew he'd had two knee surgeries, I was sure his comeback was well on track, but the knee didn't heal even though he was still playing, Minnesota didn't sign him and he signed in Russia, but injured the knee again. The only factor which makes up for it is that at 14 I was torn between him and Berglund, and Berglund was still there at 19 so I got him anyway. Let's hope he bounces back this year....

WORST FA Signing: I don't make many really, the biggest being RFA offer sheet to get Iginla (which cost 4 1st rounders, which was easy because I had 5 seasons of 3 first rounders anyway....)

 

[Hossa]

WORST TRADE: Probably the Boyle for Beauchimen trade with the Canucks, though I don't think it hurt seriously. Neither of the prospects I was offered panned out, but Picard's regression after his first season makes this trade bad, as well as Boyles improved play in his own zone. Still had Beauch though for 4 x 900K which only just ended. Only made the trade because I couldn't afford the 3 million salary. How times have changed.

Did I get Lebda back in that trade as well?

 

[MatthewFlames]

Did I get Lebda back in that trade as well?

TO VAN
Dan Boyle
Richard Zednik
Brett Lebda
'07 5th Round Pick (Matt Lahey, RW)

To CGY
Francois Beauchemin
Alex Picard
Jay Pandolfo
'07 4th Round pick (Seb Erixon, D, who I've since dropped)
'08 5 th Round pick (Traded to Pittsburgh so they'd take Leclair)
$500,000

Clearly a win for Van. Lebda was one of my UDFA's who was never good enough to be in my top 6.

 

[Hossa]

TO VAN
Dan Boyle
Richard Zednik
Brett Lebda
'07 5th Round Pick (Matt Lahey, RW)

To CGY
Francois Beauchemin
Alex Picard
Jay Pandolfo
'07 4th Round pick (Seb Erixon, D, who I've since dropped)
'08 5 th Round pick (Traded to Pittsburgh so they'd take Leclair)
$500,000

Clearly a win for Van. Lebda was one of my UDFA's who was never good enough to be in my top 6.

Ya, Lebda was dealt with Ratchuk for Kevin Bieksa, and Zednik for Matt Cullen. Unfortunately Matt Lahey was a bust. But one of the turning point trades for my club I think, along with Kaberle's acquisition around the same time.

Some of it was luck though. I think Kyle Quincey was given as an option instead of Picard, and Quincey was again offered as an option instead of Lebda in the subsequent Bieksa deal. Both deals would look dramatically different if it was Quincey who was shipped out. Instead, he'll be my #4 this year making 550k.

 

[MatthewFlames]

Some of it was luck though. I think Kyle Quincey was given as an option instead of Picard.

I really don't recall Quincy being in the mix at all. It was Picard or Noah Welch that was my choice and I tried to get you to give me both. Not that that would have helped.

 

[Hossa]

I really don't recall Quincy being in the mix at all. It was Picard or Noah Welch that was my choice and I tried to get you to give me both. Not that that would have helped.

Really? I would be surprised if I was willing to give up Welch at that point.

 

[MatthewFlames]

Really? I would be surprised if I was willing to give up Welch at that point.

Yah. I keep track of all my trades and some of the discussions. I took Picard because he was already in the NHL full time (until Philly traded him that year).