The Eastern Roman Empire – A Greek Empire?

[keonsbitterness]

Well, that's what I'm saying...

You're not saying it was primarily a Greek empire. It was.

 

[cgf]

Lol, I'm well aware of that, but you clearly said "greek empire" and the Byzantins were never a greek empire. You can talk about influence, but they were never a greek empire...

Not that it matters much anyway. Just found it odd.

Greek was always talked in the roman empire, even during the Republic and nobody would say it was a greek empire....

The language of state was greek, the people who ran the empire were predominantly greeks, the population of the heartland was predominently greek & it was viewed as greek by outsiders...doesn't get much more greek than that.

Not that our criteria matters, greeks view it is as theirs. And my initial post was about the feelings of greeks.

 

[keonsbitterness]

Latin West and Greek East you mean. But actually Latin remained the language of the Eastern Empire until the 7th century.

Yes. Sorry, typing too fast.

Official, yes, but that eventually changed because the majority of the common population spoke Greek. Just as Latin (and sometimes French) was the official diplomatic language in England for centuries after William the Conqeuror, but was then replaced by English.

 

[Evilo]

You're not saying it was primarily a Greek empire. It was.

You wrote it yourself FFS.
It was a ROMAN empire.

 

[Evilo]

The language of state was greek, the people who ran the empire were predominantly greeks, the population of the heartland was predominently greek & it was viewed as greek by outsiders...doesn't get much more greek than that.

Not that our criteria matters, greeks view it is as theirs. And my initial post was about the feelings of greeks.

Greeks saw it as theirs?
That's rich. You weren't there. Nor me.
History says it was the oriental roman empire.

You find it ridiculous to think of the roman republic as greek, right?
Yet they used plenty of greek influence and the upper class people all talked greek when it mattered.

So yeah, factually wrong.

 

[cgf]

Again, it's just historic facts.
You can discuss what you THINK, but the facts are that Constantinople's fall was the fall of the ROMAN empire.

Sorry to be an ass on that, but the roman empire is a specialty in my house. Mrs Evilo is ancient greek and latin teacher and I'm also very much into latin history (though more focused on the Republic period).

Then ask her whether the byzantine empire was greek or roman...

 

[Evilo]

Yes. Sorry, typing too fast.

Official, yes, but that eventually changed because the majority of the common population spoke Greek. Just as Latin (and sometimes French) was the official diplomatic language in England for centuries after William the Conqeuror, but was then replaced by English.

Factually wrong again.
It's not sometimes. French was the official diplomatic language for 200 years.

 

[keonsbitterness]

Greeks saw it as theirs?
That's rich. You weren't there. Nor me.
History says it was the oriental roman empire.

You find it ridiculous to think of the roman republic as greek, right?
Yet they used plenty of greek influence and the upper class people all talked greek when it mattered.

So yeah, factually wrong.

Napolean was Corsican, not French, and he had nothing to do with French history.

 

[Evilo]

Then ask her whether the byzantine empire was greek or roman...

No need. It was part of the eastern roman empire :
Byzantine Empire - Wikipedia

 

[Evilo]

Napolean was Corsican, not French, and he had nothing to do with French history.

You're on a roll.
Corsica was part of France (still is) and turned french a few years before Napoleon was born.
He is just as french as anyone.

 

[keonsbitterness]

Factually wrong again.
It's not sometimes. French was the official diplomatic language for 200 years.

Exactly. And Latin remained official for a time after that.

So factually correct.

 

[Evilo]

Nope.
You said "sometimes french" when french WAS the official language for 200 years. Then french and english for 30 more years.

 

[Evilo]

Why Is French Considered the Language of Diplomacy? - LLS

 

[keonsbitterness]

You're on a roll.
Corsica was part of France (still is) and turned french a few years before Napoleon was born.
He is just as french as anyone.

Of course he was.

In his youth he was an outspoken Corsican nationalist and supported the state's independence from France.[better source needed][23] Like many Corsicans, Napoleon spoke and read Corsican (as his mother tongue) and Italian (as the official language of Corsica).[26][27][28] He began learning French in school at around age 10.[29] Although he became fluent in French, he spoke with a distinctive Corsican accent and never learned how to spell French correctly.

 

[cgf]

Greeks saw it as theirs?
That's rich. You weren't there. Nor me.
History says it was the oriental roman empire.

You find it ridiculous to think of the roman republic as greek, right?
Yet they used plenty of greek influence and the upper class people all talked greek when it mattered.

So yeah, factually wrong.

I wasn't. But crusaders were, and they s*** on it for being greek throughout their chronicles & correspondences. We also have letters where the eastern roman empire's "greekness" is used by the HRE and its predessor states to stake their claim to be the true successor to Rome.

That it was viewed as Greek by western europeans of the time is pretty well documented...and supported by the fact that it was run by & predominantly populated by greeks. It was a Greek empire


Plus I said that greeks view it as theirs in the present, not back then...so not only are you wrong, you are arguing the wrong topic...

 

[Evilo]

Of course he was.

Your point being?
He is french.
So yeah, you posted something ONCE AGAIN fatcually wrong. 3rd info in a row.

 

[Evilo]

I wasn't. But crusaders were, and they s*** on it for being greek throughout their chronicles & correspondences. We also have letters where the eastern roman empire's "greekness" is used by the HRE and its predessor states to stake their claim to be the true successor to Rome.

That it was viewed as Greek by western europeans of the time is pretty well documented...and supported by the fact that it was run by & predominantly populated by greeks. It was a Greek empire


Plus I said that greeks view it as theirs in the present, not back then...so not only are you wrong, you are arguing the wrong topic...

It was never seen as greek empire. It was the greek area, but nobody called it the greek empire. Nobody. Not a single text that I know of does. It was always the roman empire.
And I don't know a single greek that thinks of greek empire as anything else but the Hellinistic period.

So, once again, the fall of Constantinople was never the fall of the greek empire (no more than the fall of Alexandria), even for greeks. Or maybe some very uneducated ones.

 

[cgf]

Latin West and Greek East you mean. But actually Latin remained the language of the Eastern Empire until the 7th century.

Isn't Justinian claimed to be the last emperor who was a native Latin speaker?

 

[cgf]

It was never seen as greek empire. It was the greek area, but nobody called it the greek empire. Nobody. Not a single text that I know of does. It was always the roman empire.
And I don't know a single greek that thinks of greek empire as anything else but the Hellinistic period.

So, once again, the fall of Constantinople was never the fall of the greek empire (no more than the fall of Alexandria), even for greeks. Or maybe some very uneducated ones.

*sigh*


the =/= a

 

[cgf]

No need. It was part of the eastern roman empire :
Byzantine Empire - Wikipedia

...which spoke greek & was run by greeks...

 

[Evilo]

Just like Egypt and you yet no fool would claim Egypt as greek empire when Cleopatra was Pharao.

 

[keonsbitterness]

Factually wrong again.
It's not sometimes. French was the official diplomatic language for 200 years.

The point is English usurped Latin, French and whatever else as the official language. Not possible unless the majority of the common people spoke English.

Your point being?
He is french.
So yeah, you posted something ONCE AGAIN fatcually wrong. 3rd info in a row.

He was like Trump -- a lifelong Democrat who used a foreign party to achieve his dictatorial ambitions.

And didn't learn French until age ten. Shocking

It was never seen as greek empire. It was the greek area, but nobody called it the greek empire. Nobody. Not a single text that I know of does. It was always the roman empire.
And I don't know a single greek that thinks of greek empire as anything else but the Hellinistic period.

So, once again, the fall of Constantinople was never the fall of the greek empire (no more than the fall of Alexandria), even for greeks. Or maybe some very uneducated ones.

One major difference: Alexandria was ruled by Greek speakers, but the Ptolemaic Empire was never majority Greek.

Isn't Justinian claimed to be the last emperor who was a native Latin speaker?

I believe so.

 

[Evilo]

Ptolemaic Empire was ruled by greeks. So
No party in Corsica was a "foreign party" at the time (as I said, barely so).
The point I made was that your "sometimes" was factually wrong. 200+ years isn't sometimes. And french was the official diplomatic language when the majority of people didn't speak french. Diplomats learnt french, that's it. Just like educated romans learnt greek during the Republic.

 

[Theokritos]

It was never seen as greek empire. It was the greek area, but nobody called it the greek empire. Nobody. Not a single text that I know of does.

Huh? The people of the Eastern Empire were regulary referred to as Greeks by Western authors.

 

[keonsbitterness]

Huh? The people of the Eastern Empire were regulary referred to as Greeks by Western authors.

No no, they were Napoleanite-Corsican anti-Gallic separatists.