Proposal: The Devils desperately need goaltending, and are willing to overpay

[TBF1972]

Schmid for Samsonov. Straight up.

i see you are homeless.

 

[Ruutu Tootoo]

Healthy Colin Miller helps no?


Blackwood, struggled the last couple years and got shipped to San Jose

Let’s hope, but regardless, Fitzy is going to have to get another defenseman at the TDL.

 

[Stealth1616]

I’m sure they are in no rush to hit the panic button on their goaltending. The are coming into a long cup window I would think and can rectify that position pretty easily once the cap goes up

 

[TS Quint]

I’m sure they are in no rush to hit the panic button on their goaltending. The are coming into a long cup window I would think and can rectify that position pretty easily once the cap goes up

The cap going up doesn't save teams the way most poster think it does. When the cap goes up so do ALL salaries.

 

[Stealth1616]

The cap going up doesn't save teams the way most poster think it does. When the cap goes up so do ALL salaries.

Sure, but that’s only true if you have a lot of guys you need to sign in the upcoming years. My understanding is that the Devils have most of their core locked up for quite a while.

Therefore if the only position you need to fill is G then that shouldn’t be an issue when the cap does go up

 

[HBK27]

Monstrous 38 save, .950 save % by Hellebuyck against the Oilers offensive juggernaut. Gotta say it’s real nice having elite goaltending. It must be frustrating to have a high end team that gets dragged down by mediocre goaltending anchors.

Are you really trying to take a victory lap after Hellebuyck had a putrid .843 SV% and 4.38 GAA the first 3 games of the season before putting together a good game against a struggling team?

I guess congrats are in order though for Hellebuyck for finally posting a save percentage above .900 for the first time in his last 9 games. Stats like that just scream "elite"!

As much as Hellebuyck would've been an upgrade for the Devils in net, I had zero interest in trading for him at the rumored prices and much less interest in signing him to any long-term deal remotely close to what he got. If it was clear that Hellebuyck wasn't going to resign in Winnipeg and Chevy had to deal him versus lose him for nothing, I would've been interested in trading for him. And even in that scenario, I wouldn't have wanted to extend him for more than 5 years. Given what it would've cost the Devils to acquire/extend him, I have zero problem with the way things turned out.

Clearly, Hellebuyck and his agent also read the tea leaves and saw the lack of interest in him league-wide. He basically gave up on his chance to win a Cup in exchange for a whole lot of money and the likelihood of going down as one of the best players in franchise history, making him a legend in Winnipeg and surely getting his number retired there at some point. And there's nothing wrong with that - many of us probably would've made the same choice. Even if he had gone the UFA route to a team like NJ, the odds of winning a Cup the next few years are really stacked against him and he would've potentially left a lot of money on the table...particularly if he got injured or struggled with a new team. Was a safe and probably smart decision on his part to stay and the guy probably has a job for life with the organization after playing if he wants it.

So yeah, enjoy watching elite goaltending - as a longtime Devils fan, I can appreciate that. It's more enjoyable though when it leads to a Cup.

 

[TS Quint]

Are you really trying to take a victory lap after Hellebuyck had a putrid .843 SV% and 4.38 GAA the first 3 games of the season before putting together a good game against a struggling team?

I guess congrats are in order though for Hellebuyck for finally posting a save percentage above .900 for the first time in his last 9 games. Stats like that just scream "elite"!

As much as Hellebuyck would've been an upgrade for the Devils in net, I had zero interest in trading for him at the rumored prices and much less interest in signing him to any long-term deal remotely close to what he got. If it was clear that Hellebuyck wasn't going to resign in Winnipeg and Chevy had to deal him versus lose him for nothing, I would've been interested in trading for him. And even in that scenario, I wouldn't have wanted to extend him for more than 5 years. Given what it would've cost the Devils to acquire/extend him, I have zero problem with the way things turned out.

Clearly, Hellebuyck and his agent also read the tea leaves and saw the lack of interest in him league-wide. He basically gave up on his chance to win a Cup in exchange for a whole lot of money and the likelihood of going down as one of the best players in franchise history, making him a legend in Winnipeg and surely getting his number retired there at some point. And there's nothing wrong with that - many of us probably would've made the same choice. Even if he had gone the UFA route to a team like NJ, the odds of winning a Cup the next few years are really stacked against him and he would've potentially left a lot of money on the table...particularly if he got injured or struggled with a new team. Was a safe and probably smart decision on his part to stay and the guy probably has a job for life with the organization after playing if he wants it.

So yeah, enjoy watching elite goaltending - as a longtime Devils fan, I can appreciate that. It's more enjoyable though when it leads to a Cup.

Here you are crapping on the poster over a small sample then you do the same thing. Take a lap.

Do the Devils have the goaltending that leads to a Cup right now?

 

[HBK27]

Here you are crapping on the poster over a small sample then you do the same thing. Take a lap.

Do the Devils have the goaltending that leads to a Cup right now?

And rightfully so. I also acknowledged that Hellebuyck is still a very good goalie and would absolutely be an upgrade in net for NJ.

I really don't know if the Devils have the goaltending to lead them to a Cup right now. Schmid may get there after showing flashes last year in the playoffs, but he still has a long way to go. I don't particularly trust Vanecek after the way he imploded in the playoffs last season - it was clearly mental for him as he didn't look himself from the start of the playoffs. I know he worked with a mental coach this offseason, so hopefully that helps but I don't have much confidence in him leading NJ to a Cup.

All that being said, I still have no problem with Fitzgerald rolling with that pair to start the season. You don't just force the issue and overpay for Hellebuyck in both assets and a contract if the asking price on both is too high. That's not at all how you build a championship team.

You guys are acting like Devils management has blinders on and doesn't have the same concerns we all have about the Devils goaltending, when that couldn't be further from the case. I'm fully confident that Fitzgerald will address goaltending at the appropriate time/price.

Nobody would've thought that Vegas had the goaltending to win the Cup last season. Do you think Edmonton, Carolina, Toronto, & Colorado all have the goaltending that leads to a Cup right now? Devils aren't the only team with question marks.

 

[TS Quint]

Sure, but that’s only true if you have a lot of guys you need to sign in the upcoming years. My understanding is that the Devils have most of their core locked up for quite a while.

Therefore if the only position you need to fill is G then that shouldn’t be an issue when the cap does go up

How much does Mercer get paid? 2 years of cap increases? How about Luke Hughes?

How much does a legit goaltender cost?

Devils have an enviable position of having to pay some good players. But they are getting to a point of cash in for cash out without a legit goaltender. There are worse problems in the world but it's something to deal with.

 

[Hischier and Hughes]

How much does Mercer get paid? 2 years of cap increases?

How much does a legit goal cost?

Mercer can be paid with one cap increase + the 2.35m in dead cap NJ gets back next year!

i suspect he signs for 5-8 years at around 5-6.5m

 

[Forge]

Do the Devils have the goaltending that leads to a Cup right now?

In a, "you never know who can catch fire in net" sort of way, sure. Vanacek was probably in the same tier of goaltending caliber as Adin Hill through their career in the eyes of many (until the latter's playoff run, of course) and their career numbers were pretty similar through last year.

Now, I don't know if the devils in their current construction can insulate him the way that Vegas could Hill at times (not to take anything away from Hill, who was very good during the run), and Vitek's playoff history specifically has been brutal, so I wouldn't count on it.

The "average goaltending catching fire" strategy isn't failproof or anything. It doesn't even work all that often. But elite goalies don't win the cup every year either, so I'm also not so sure that rolling with what they have and re-evaluating each year is a worse strategy than giving up big assets (money and players) to acquire Helle.

I don't mind them holding out. They made a choice to roll with league averagish goaltending on a team that is very talented, but probably not elite, elite yet and still has some transitioning to work through. I mean, if the devils added Helle and finished second or third in the metro, I wouldn't have been surprised. I think when they get into year 4 of this thing and still don't have a cup, they may become more desperate to go out and make that splash goalie move, but I don't think that they had to do it now and if they had, I don't know that it would have resulted in the cup right now anyway.

 

[Stealth1616]

How much does Mercer get paid? 2 years of cap increases? How about Luke Hughes?

How much does a legit goaltender cost?

Devils have an enviable position of having to pay some good players. But they are getting to a point of cash in for cash out without a legit goaltender. There are worse problems in the world but it's something to deal with.

Mercer will probably be on a bridge contract once his current deal is up. Probably in the range of of $4M a year. Too early to tell what Luke Hughes is or will be but he would probably be in the bridge deal territory so that would be another 4-5 of that player.

A good starting goalie and backup probably costs you $8M a year which isn’t a huge step up from what they are paying their goalies now.

They have about 2M in cap now plus looks like they have some dead cal coming off this year so that’s about 4M.

And this is without taking into account expiring contracts and the ability to replenish those with younger talent on ELC’s

If the cap is expected to go up 10M in 5 years that’s a ton of space for all that

 

[TS Quint]

Right, so even optimiscally the cap increases don't leave much going to goaltending.

Again, too many good players isn't a bad problem. But the cap going up really isn't going to fix the goaltending. But maybe like one poster said the Devils get a hot Adin Hill type run.....or maybe it ends up being like the Oilers, good team bad goaltending.

I don't want to seem like I'm cheering against the Devils. They're a exciting young team hitting their window. It's going to be interesting to see how they round out the team as they start hitting their prime.

 

[HBK27]

Right, so even optimiscally the cap increases don't leave much going to goaltending.

Again, too many good players isn't a bad problem. But the cap going up really isn't going to fix the goaltending. But maybe like one poster said the Devils get a hot Adin Hill type run.....or maybe it ends up being like the Oilers, good team bad goaltending.

I don't want to seem like I'm cheering against the Devils. They're a exciting young team hitting their window. It's going to be interesting to see how they round out the team as they start hitting their prime.

So what would you have done - trade and paid whatever it took to get Hellebuyck? Would you have dealt Mercer and given Hellebuyck the contract he got from Winnipeg?

Also, I answered your question about what I thought about the Devils goaltenders' ability to win a Cup - so I ask again...are you confident that Edmonton, Toronto, Carolina & Colorado all have the goaltending to win a Cup?

 

[TS Quint]

So what would you have done - trade and paid whatever it took to get Hellebuyck? Would you have dealt Mercer and given Hellebuyck the contract he got from Winnipeg?

Also, I answered your question about what I thought about the Devils goaltenders' ability to win a Cup - so I ask again...are you confident that Edmonton, Toronto, Carolina & Colorado all have the goaltending to win a Cup?

Colorado yes. The Leafs problem is their big money forwards go impotent in the playoffs. Carolina cant score enough in the playoffs to help their mid goaltending. Edmonton, no and they dont have much depth. You don't need to get so mad you need to lump every team into having the same problems as the Devils. It's OK to have a respectful conversation.

I'm not trying to force Hellebuyck on the Devils. But the goaltending is still a question that needs answering.

 

[HBK27]

Colorado yes. The Leafs problem is their big money forwards go impotent in the playoffs. Carolina cant score enough in the playoffs to help their mid goaltending. Edmonton, no and they dont have much depth. You don't need to get so mad you need to lump every team into having the same problems as the Devils. It's OK to have a respectful conversation.

I'm not trying to force Hellebuyck on the Devils. But the goaltending is still a question that needs answering.

I'm not remotely "mad", so I don't know why you feel the need to make that baseless accusation while trying to lecture me on how to have a respectful conversation...particularly when you started the "conversation" between us by telling me to "take a lap".

Also, calling out other top teams that also have questions is goal is far from "lumping every team into having the same problem" as the Devils, but clearly accuracy isn't your strong point here either.

Devils fans realize that goaltending is still a question that needs answering - don't think anyone is disagreeing with you there.

 

[TS Quint]

I'm not remotely "mad", so I don't know why you feel the need to make that baseless accusation while trying to lecture me on how to have a respectful conversation...particularly when you started the "conversation" between us by telling me to "take a lap".

Also, calling out other top teams that also have questions is goal is far from "lumping every team into having the same problem" as the Devils, but clearly accuracy isn't your strong point here either.

Devils fans realize that goaltending is still a question that needs answering - don't think anyone is disagreeing with you there.

Ok.... so what's the answer?

 

[Guttersniped]

Ok.... so what's the answer?

Who knows? We’ll all have to wait and see. That’s the answer. Not sure why some people have trouble with this answer.

Fitz is a blabber mouth, the team has been pretty open about how they’re constantly actively searching for a way to upgrade the goaltending.

I guess the Fantasy GM mindset of the trade board regulars leads some people to demand fans predict the unknowable future.

If an upgrade becomes realistically available then we can discuss that.

 

[TBF1972]

Right, so even optimiscally the cap increases don't leave much going to goaltending.

Again, too many good players isn't a bad problem. But the cap going up really isn't going to fix the goaltending. But maybe like one poster said the Devils get a hot Adin Hill type run.....or maybe it ends up being like the Oilers, good team bad goaltending.

I don't want to seem like I'm cheering against the Devils. They're a exciting young team hitting their window. It's going to be interesting to see how they round out the team as they start hitting their prime.

i don't think they will re-sign toffoli and will look for a cheaper replacement. holtz hopefully is the one replacing him in the top6.

 

[Poppy Whoa Sonnet]

Here you are crapping on the poster over a small sample then you do the same thing. Take a lap.

Do the Devils have the goaltending that leads to a Cup right now?

Last 5 cup champs and their status at the beginning of the year

2023 - Adin Hill (3rd/4th string goalie after Lehner, Thompson, and arguably Brossoit. Team brought in Quick as support)
2022 - Kuemper (Team gave up a 1st and 3rd for him after refusing to give Grubauer a comparable FA deal, that contract looks disastrous right now btw)
2021 - Vasi (elite)
2020 - Vasi (elite)
2019 - Binnington (3rd string goalie, got hot during the playoffs, earned a contract that the team now regrets).

Schmid/Vanecek could easily be in that tier of goalies that gets hot and the team wins a cup. I certainly wish the Devils had a Vasilevskiy, but the only guy rumored to be available was Hellebuyck and we have absolutely no idea what it would take to get him, what contract he'd sign as a condition of the trade, and how serious Chevy was about moving him, or if it was about giving the guy a reality check on the goaltender market before getting him to sign a long term deal in Winnipeg.

Just because you pay a guy big money, or give up major assets does not mean they are an elite goaltender. Just because they were good for a long stretch of games does not mean they are elite and worth giving a huge deal to. Devils (like a lot of teams if you haven't noticed) are going to run a tandem of guys that won't sink them, and hope they can get hot, or the 1b/backup can handle the cold stretches when they come.

Ok.... so what's the answer?

Given all of this my guess is NJ will get a 3rd goalie for the playoffs, assuming Vanecek/Schmid stay healthy/relatively effective and ride the hot hand. They can wait and see and they will.

 

[TS Quint]

i don't think they will re-sign toffoli and will look for a cheaper replacement. holtz hopefully is the one replacing him in the top6.

I meant goaltending wise.

 

[Bringer of Jollity]

Give it another couple weeks and see if Nashville fall off a cliff and offer a big package for Saros?

Nashville's place in the standings will have no bearing on Saros' availability, it's all on what kind of progress is seen from Askarov. If that occurs I'd expect it won't be cheap with LA, Edmonton, Buffalo, etc.. also in need of that same upgrade.

 

[TBF1972]

I meant goaltending wise.

if they bring in a new goalie vanacek is most likely going out. with the cap saved between tofoli and his replacement it could open up 5-6m.

 

[TS Quint]

Last 5 cup champs and their status at the beginning of the year

2023 - Adin Hill (3rd/4th string goalie after Lehner, Thompson, and arguably Brossoit. Team brought in Quick as support)
2022 - Kuemper (Team gave up a 1st and 3rd for him after refusing to give Grubauer a comparable FA deal, that contract looks disastrous right now btw)
2021 - Vasi (elite)
2020 - Vasi (elite)
2019 - Binnington (3rd string goalie, got hot during the playoffs, earned a contract that the team now regrets).

Schmid/Vanecek could easily be in that tier of goalies that gets hot and the team wins a cup. I certainly wish the Devils had a Vasilevskiy, but the only guy rumored to be available was Hellebuyck and we have absolutely no idea what it would take to get him, what contract he'd sign as a condition of the trade, and how serious Chevy was about moving him, or if it was about giving the guy a reality check on the goaltender market before getting him to sign a long term deal in Winnipeg.

Just because you pay a guy big money, or give up major assets does not mean they are an elite goaltender. Just because they were good for a long stretch of games does not mean they are elite and worth giving a huge deal to. Devils (like a lot of teams if you haven't noticed) are going to run a tandem of guys that won't sink them, and hope they can get hot, or the 1b/backup can handle the cold stretches when they come.




Given all of this my guess is NJ will get a 3rd goalie for the playoffs, assuming Vanecek/Schmid stay healthy/relatively effective and ride the hot hand. They can wait and see and they will.

You're really selling Binington short that year. Your list looks like that song "one of these things doesn't look like the others." Hill sticks out like a sore thumb.

That list looks like you really need a good goaltender.

But you're right, it's possible the Devils get a hot hand put of nowhere and it works out. It does happen.

 

[Guffman]

Congrats on his first good game of the year when he was getting absolutely blitzed and looked awful in the first 3, but you're the most self serving poster on this board so do you.

Hellebuyck has a proven track record. What he does in 3-4 games is irrelevant. Lesser goalies without a proven track record are more open to critique.

It will be interesting checking in on teams like Buffalo and New Jersey this year to see if their gamble on unproven dreck pays off or tanks their year.