The blind hate of Polak

[Coachcorner]

Exactly if Babs is adamant about him having a roster spot, just dress him as a seventh dman and use him extremely sparingly and on the pk.

Those are only just stats... pk stats and all. Its for the internet, not for the real Maple Leafs games where human beings play. Other young tender, modern kardashian type gold spoon rear end players are afraid of polak. Polak is much stronger and bigger than them and plays with the fat. He hits people real hard and inditimadetes humans. Polak brings that certain type of experience that nobody wants to step on andersen. Not gardiner and dermott and carrick can do that there. We need that Polak, babcock and lou knew this and they got him back. Now they smile and WIN, almost all the time baby. 25 - 17 - 3. That that Polak talk.

We've also had injuries so now that zaitsev's out, polakk is the big man. He doing thangs and moving thangs. babcock plays with winnas.

 

[Tak7]

Those are only just stats... pk stats and all. Its for the internet, not for the real Maple Leafs games where human beings play. Other young tender, modern kardashian type gold spoon rear end players are afraid of polak. Polak is much stronger and bigger than them and plays with the fat. He hits people real hard and inditimadetes humans. Polak brings that certain type of experience that nobody wants to step on andersen. Not gardiner and dermott and carrick can do that there. We need that Polak, babcock and lou knew this and they got him back. Now they smile and WIN, almost all the time baby. 25 - 17 - 3. That that Polak talk.

We've also had injuries so now that zaitsev's out, polakk is the big man. He doing thangs and moving thangs. babcock plays with winnas.

I don't know if this post is legit or sarcasm, but just in case it is legit....

...no one is afraid of Polak.

He's not quick enough on his skates to keep up with the play or hit anyone.

The only players he's hitting are ones late on the play that end up with him in the box.

Oh, and he doesn't help the Penalty Kill .

 

[member 262271]

He's definitely worse than before the injury, and he was pretty bad then too. It's one of those weird situations where I can't fathom why he's in the lineup but common sense just isn't being used it seems.

 

[TMLeafs17]

No way he should’ve been in over Dermott last night.

 

[Tak7]

He's definitely worse than before the injury, and he was pretty bad then too. It's one of those weird situations where I can't fathom why he's in the lineup but common sense just isn't being used it seems.

I think we all badly undestimate Babcock's stubbornness on the left-handed / right-handed thing. If Polak was left handed, I don't think he'd be anywhere near this lineup

 

[member 262271]

I think we all badly undestimate Babcock's stubbornness on the left-handed / right-handed thing. If Polak was left handed, I don't think he'd be anywhere near this lineup

In which case I'd say I can't wait for Ozighanov. Then there's still Carrick though, and by extension more POLAK. Ugh. Oh wait I'm forgetting Hainsey playing the right side, thank god for that.

 

[Mr Hockey]

4~ 5 PK...

	Player	Position	GP	TOI	CF	CA	CF%	GF	GA	GF%
1	Morgan Rielly	D	45	58:57	14	86	14.00	1	8	11.11
2	Roman Polak	D	26	55:39	11	78	12.36	2	4	33.33
3	Ron Hainsey	D	45	188:07	31	310	9.09	1	15	6.25
4	Nikita Zaitsev	D	34	114:49	19	215	8.12	0	10	0.00

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[Tak7]

4~ 5 PK...

	Player	Position	GP	TOI	CF	CA	CF%	GF	GA	GF%
1	Morgan Rielly	D	45	58:57	14	86	14.00	1	8	11.11
2	Roman Polak	D	26	55:39	11	78	12.36	2	4	33.33
3	Ron Hainsey	D	45	188:07	31	310	9.09	1	15	6.25
4	Nikita Zaitsev	D	34	114:49	19	215	8.12	0	10	0.00

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Leafs PK with Polak Dressed = 83.6%
Leafs PK with Polak Scratched = 83.8%

Leafs PK with Polak on it = 83.3%
Leafs PK, killing Polak penalties = 84.6%

He literally has zero influence on the penalty kill.

 

[Mr Hockey]

Leafs PK with Polak Dressed = 83.6%
Leafs PK with Polak Scratched = 83.8%

Leafs PK with Polak on it = 83.3%
Leafs PK, killing Polak penalties = 84.6%

He literally has zero influence on the penalty kill.

Huh, the hell is that? ... reach much lol

 

[Tak7]

Huh, the hell is that?

Penalty Kill success in different scenarios around Polak.

Notice that the PK performs at virtually identical rate, regardless of whether Polak is playing / not playing / in the box.

He has no influence on the PK, which is something his biggest defenders seem to fall back on

 

[Mr Hockey]

Penalty Kill success in different scenarios around Polak.

dude, youre really reaching with that lol,

 

[Tak7]

dude, youre really reaching with that lol,

Simple numbers is the exact opposite of a reach.

 

[Mr Hockey]

Simple numbers is the exact opposite of a reach.

 

[frog]

Leafs PK with Polak Dressed = 83.6%
Leafs PK with Polak Scratched = 83.8%

Leafs PK with Polak on it = 83.3%
Leafs PK, killing Polak penalties = 84.6%

He literally has zero influence on the penalty kill.

To put things in perspective:

83.3% + 83.3% = 166.6%

Therefore if we added another polak our PK would be 166.6%.

 

[Legion34]

Aren’t we like 11-12 with him. And 14-4 without him?

 

[moon111]

Polak 5 PP TGA in 59:06 SH TOI
Borgman 2 PP TGA in 9:16 SH TOI
Gardiner 1 PP TGA in 25:06 SH TOI
Carrick, Dermott, Rosen not really used. I really don't want to see Polak, but honestly the best option on the PK without him is Gardiner.

 

[Rogie]

So, I can't find the actual numbers anywhere for Individ PK% to compare it to the team numbers. So, I will just do more basic calcs fromt eh numbers that I can find, that I know (think) have to be relevant.

So, the total number of PK minutes played divided by the number of goals scored by the other team. There is a modification. Some players, while short handed, the team scored, so, there is a plus minus number that I will use for calculating.
Player ..... PKTOI total ........ goals against+/- ..... GA/min

Rielly 59 mins .............. 7 ......................... 1/8.4 mins
Ziets 115 mins ............... 10 ....................... 1/11.5 mins
Hainsey 188 mins. ............. 14 ..................... 1/13 mins
Polak 55 mins. .................. 2 .............................. 1/27.5 mins

When Hainsey was on the ice, the Leafs gave up
ONE GOAL EVERY 13 MINUTES SHORTHANDED

but,
When Polak was on the ice, the Leafs gave up
ONE GOAL EVERY 27 MINUTES SHORTHANDED

This is from Corsica website.
Edit: my MISTAKE, these numbers are ALL 4v5, which is NOT technically the Pk which includes 3v5, and 3v4, etc etc. But, it doesn't change the numbers drastically, and when the numbers are slightly different, they don't favor any player one way or the other.

I don't know where the Polak number of 83% comes from, is it just a one game sample or something. I don't know where the exact PK% individ player numbers are, but, my guess, is Polak's number would be the highest - perhaps around 90%.

Here is a very crude calculation.
His 4v5 total TOI is 55 minutes. That is 27 penalties. His +/= is -2; he was NOT scored on
for 25 out of 27 penalties (4v5). Actually, he was scored on 4 times, but the team scored 2 times.

so, 25/27 = 92.5%

 

[Cap'n Flavour]

... so you're just going to give Polak credit for the two shorthanded goals while he was on the ice? Okay then.

A more reasonable calculation is 4GA/55 mins = 4.36GA/60 for Polak vs 15GA/189 mins = 4.76GA/60 for Hainsey, 10/115 mins = 5.22 GA/60 for Zaitsev, 8/60 mins = 8GA/60 for Rielly, and 1/23 mins = 2.61GA/60 for Gardiner. The only conclusion I draw from that is that the sample sizes are mostly that the sample sizes are too sample, but it wouldn't hurt to give Gardiner some PK minutes instead of Rielly.

 

[Larcos_Unal]

My disdain for Polak is not blind, it is based on tangible proof that he is a shitty hockey player.
My 20/20 vision allows me to clearly see all of his faults every time the Leafs play, and the #s back it up.

 

[Nithoniniel]

Just for your further information, Roman Polak is in the worst 10% of all players both when it comes to getting the puck out of our zone with control, and moving it into the offensive zone with control. That's not good.

 

[Rogie]

... so you're just going to give Polak credit for the two shorthanded goals while he was on the ice? Okay then.

A more reasonable calculation is 4GA/55 mins = 4.36GA/60 for Polak vs 15GA/189 mins = 4.76GA/60 for Hainsey, 10/115 mins = 5.22 GA/60 for Zaitsev, 8/60 mins = 8GA/60 for Rielly, and 1/23 mins = 2.61GA/60 for Gardiner. The only conclusion I draw from that is that the sample sizes are mostly that the sample sizes are too sample, but it wouldn't hurt to give Gardiner some PK minutes instead of Rielly.

I don't agree discounting the plus/minus is more reasonable than using simply goals against. But, it doesn't matter because Polak still has/had better numbers than all the other D anyways, except like you mentioned, Gardiner. And I noticed you took off both of Rielly and Hainsey's goals for, so, you saw those as well.

Gardiner played a total of 25 minutes (i think) shorthanded all of last year, so, guess coach doesn't see him as a PKer.

For a larger sample, last years numbers (these kinds of numbers again), Polak was ahead of Zietsiev and Rielly (behind Hunwick and Marincin), while playing the most shorthanded minutes of all Dmen (I think). So, this small sample (though, I'm not sure it's too small) are CONSISTENT with his PK numbers last year and his ranking with other Dmen.

It's true that saying he was scored against just 1 time in 27 minutes (Polak) versus 1 time in 13 minutes (Hainsey) sounds a lot more dramatic and maybe distorts the stat more than putting it into GA/60 4v5. 4.36 compared to 4.76.

BUT, it's also true that he has ONLY been on the ice for 4 goals against in 55 minutes which isn't a small sample of minutes.
And THAT might sound more dramatic but it is true..

 

[Rogie]

Leafs PK with Polak Dressed = 83.6%
Leafs PK with Polak Scratched = 83.8%

Leafs PK with Polak on it = 83.3%
Leafs PK, killing Polak penalties = 84.6%

He literally has zero influence on the penalty kill.

I can't figure out how you arrived at these numbers. Could you site a reference or explain your calculations PLEASE.

 

[Morgs]

A proven NHL coach with a proven NHL staff plus a proven NHL GM, tell you they are playing certain players in certain circumstances for a reason. If you played the game at any level you assess and understand their reasoning. Fans questioning some of these decisions have no idea of the sport. It's not played with a spreadsheet.

It's not played with a sheet, but in this case it backs up the eye test that he's a putrid defenseman at the NHL level, that drags everyone else down on the ice.

I mean, if you don't want to look at underlying stats why not look up his penalty differential for a guy who's supposed to be in the lineup to PK? Why not look at what our PK is with him, and without him? Spoiler: It's the same.

Just because a player *like* Polak is good for a team, doesn't mean Polak is an actual NHL player.

 

[iliketheteam]

Just because a player *like* Polak is good for a team, doesn't mean Polak is an actual NHL player.

660 NHL GP kinda says he is.

Sometimes the guys that come from the 6th round don't possess the "skills" that are so adored by certain fans.

He's a third paring D-man at the tail end of his career. He's a placeholder for now and part of the "patience" everyone claimed to have when they were screaming for a rebuild.

 

[Morgs]

660 NHL GP kinda says he is.

Sometimes the guys that come from the 6th round don't possess the "skills" that are so adored by certain fans.

He's a third paring D-man at the tail end of his career. He's a placeholder for now and part of the "patience" everyone claimed to have when they were screaming for a rebuild.

You're right the guy has played 660 NHL games. Now tell me: does that say more about Roman Polak's skill, or more about the incompetency of coaches and general managers. If you're not picking the latter, this is a concern.

Although you're right, he doesn't have any "skills", there are many players in the league that lack basic skills but seem to succeed despite it. It's just if a guy can't skate, can't pass, and can't shoot they're not a defensive defenseman, they're just bad at hockey.

The problem with thinking like him being the "patience" part of the rebuild is because we have young defenseman that are showing strong potential (Borgman, Dermott, Carrick), who can't find a place full-time in the lineup because they're blocked by this oaf. How exactly are they supposed to get better by sitting on the bench? There's nothing wrong with making this guy sit in the pressbox and be a good example of what to do at the gym, or send him to the minors.