The All Purpose Thread | Relevant Rivalries

[Peat]

It hasn't worked out yet, but at the same point, how much better can you reasonably expect Brassard to be? Even with his "poor start", he's on a 3 game point streak right now and is on pace for 41 points per 82 games. How much more can you actually expect from a 3C? There's just a ceiling for production in that role. I'd be happy with Brassard hitting 50 points over a full season in a 3C spot, you can't reasonably expect more.

Only 57 guys got 40 or more ES points in the NHL last year. Getting 40 ES points is something to be happy with in a 2C. Getting it from your 3C would be a little nuts.

 

[ncm7772]

I think Jooris is way better than Rowney who is not really an NHL player IMO. I think the overall point was more this: the 4th line barely plays much as is, so what's the difference who is on the 4th line...

You NEED a 4th line that can score in the playoffs. Hence why there have been consecutive Cups in Pittsburgh.

The 4th line has not been playing much lately because the Pens have been playing from behind too much recently. Even last year and 2016, the only 4th liner that would play consistently when the Pens were down in a game was Cullen. Fehr, Kuhn, Rowney, and even Hagelin and Hornqvist at times didn't play much when demoted to the 4th line in last year's Cup run.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Are some people just not watching brassard? He's been really good the last few games.

I think any complaints people may have with Brassard's game deal with having too high of expectations for him.

Only 57 guys got 40 or more ES points in the NHL last year. Getting 40 ES points is something to be happy with in a 2C. Getting it from your 3C would be a little nuts.

If Brassard over next year hits 35 ES points and 45 points overall with Crosby and Malkin both healthy all year, I'd be happy with his season. If they're hurt for any period of time, I'd want Brassard to hit 50 points. I don't think you can reasonably expect more than 50 points, 45 without top PP minutes is probably optimistic too. Brassard's ES production hasn't been that crazy good over his career, this year was the first year that he really had eye popping ES totals. Before this year, he usually hovered in the upper 20s or lower 30s for ES points over a season.

 

[Ryder71]

Are some people just not watching brassard? He's been really good the last few games.

He's been solid, no question. I don't know about going as far as really good though.

 

[Turin]

I think Brassard is good enough that he doesn’t need Kessel on his line to be a top six centre, unlike Bonino. I might try Kessel somewhere else and have Brass with Rust.

 

[BHD]

Jooris - Sheahan - Rust would be a solid 4th line. Rust, however, has to play higher in the lineup. If only the organization had a skilled player at the RW position that they could call up...

 

[RizzleMcRib]

Jooris - Sheahan - Rust would be a solid 4th line. Rust, however, has to play higher in the lineup. If only the organization had a skilled player at the RW position that they could call up...

Or, you know, not waste a non emergency call up and wait for ZAR and Simon to get healthy.

 

[Ogrezilla]

He's been solid, no question. I don't know about going as far as really good though.

He was easily our best skater last night and he's on a three game point streak. He had a slow start like Sheahan did, but he's been great the last few.

 

[Ryder71]

He was easily our best skater last night and he's on a three game point streak. He had a slow start like Sheahan did, but he's been great the last few.

He was a bright spot last night, but that in and of itself isn't saying much as we collectively were awful. He has been better of late though, on that we agree. I'm not so sure I'd say he's been ''really good'' however. But maybe that's semantics.

 

[vikingGoalie]

I think any complaints people may have with Brassard's game deal with having too high of expectations for him.



If Brassard over next year hits 35 ES points and 45 points overall with Crosby and Malkin both healthy all year, I'd be happy with his season. If they're hurt for any period of time, I'd want Brassard to hit 50 points. I don't think you can reasonably expect more than 50 points, 45 without top PP minutes is probably optimistic too. Brassard's ES production hasn't been that crazy good over his career, this year was the first year that he really had eye popping ES totals. Before this year, he usually hovered in the upper 20s or lower 30s for ES points over a season.

here's the thing though. If you are happy with 45 points overall for our 3c, Sheahan has 17 points in 33 gp in 2018. Which backs up the eye test that he's been getting better each month. That is a pace for 42.2 points over the course of a regular season.

For me, personally. If I'm shipping out Cole (big mistake) a 1st and a 3rd to upgrade Sheahan. I want to go a bit more then 42 pts, to 45 pts and yes I think what Sheahan has been showing us is sustainable if his linemates would've remained the same. I'm also a guy who really wanted Brassard. But he is truely a 2C. I expect high-high end 3C / low 2C stats out of him here. Especially considering that Malkin/Crosby are gonna pull the tougher assignments.

 

[Empoleon8771]

here's the thing though. If you are happy with 45 points overall for our 3c, Sheahan has 17 points in 33 gp in 2018. Which backs up the eye test that he's been getting better each month. That is a pace for 42.2 points over the course of a regular season.

For me, personally. If I'm shipping out Cole (big mistake) a 1st and a 3rd to upgrade Sheahan. I want to go a bit more then 42 pts, to 45 pts and yes I think what Sheahan has been showing us is sustainable if his linemates would've remained the same. I'm also a guy who really wanted Brassard. But he is truely a 2C. I expect high-high end 3C / low 2C stats out of him here. Especially considering that Malkin/Crosby are gonna pull the tougher assignments.

You're just not reasonably going to get that much more production from your 3C spot, though. It's not Brassard vs Sheahan, because you have both Brassard and Sheahan. Like I mentioned earlier in this thread, even Staal didn't hit 50 points as the Penguins 3C, and that was with Staal playing over 19 minutes a night. 50 points is 2C production, and when you're in the 3C spot, you can't reasonably expect more than that. There's just a production cap that comes from not getting top minutes and not getting top PP opportunities.

The real value in adding Brassard is that you have a Bonino caliber center as your 4C and you have insurance in case Crosby or Malkin would get hurt, since Brassard is a top-6 center. Your center depth is still good if you have Crosby, Brassard, Sheahan and Jooris as your centers. The Penguins didn't bring in Brassard because Sheahan wasn't cutting it as the 3C, they brought in Brassard so they could have a guy playing like a great 3C as their 4C. Sheahan has continued to play well after the trade (4 points in last 10 games), so that worked from that POV.

 

[SEALBound]

Odd, take Rust off the third and put him on the first and both lines end up looking like shit. If I found a genie in a bottle and was granted three wishes, the 2nd wish would be to kill the idea that Rust belongs anywhere near the top line. He's consistently bad there.

Guentzel-Crosby-Sheary/Sprong
Hagelin-Malkin-Hornqvist
Rust-Brassard-Kessel
Kuhnhackl-Sheahan-Jooris

Shit ain't hard Sully. If you don't like Sheary there, call up Sprong. Enough with this shit.

If Sully doesn't put together a legit 4th line in upcoming weeks, the trade for Brassard was pointless.

I'd be okay with Kuhn-Sheahan-Jooris going into the playoffs.

 

[Tom Hanks]

He was easily our best skater last night and he's on a three game point streak. He had a slow start like Sheahan did, but he's been great the last few.

I think people get down on Brassard because right before the deadline L3 was in great form.

However it looked more to me that it was Guentzel and Kessel in great form and Sheahan was just there (not hurting the line). Brassard came in and Jake was gone with Kessel getting injured plus the team going into one of their common slumps.

Bottom line it was the right move and in the playoffs hope Rust is on L3 with those guys. Sid will get a combo of Guentzel, ZAR, Sheary or Simon. The others spill into L4/#13.

Sprong unlikely to be called up but if they are getting him to watch a game in the press box in WBS maybe they can show him exactly what he needs to do to come back up. It’d be great if it was an option at least this season

 

[ncm7772]

Odd, take Rust off the third and put him on the first and both lines end up looking like ****. If I found a genie in a bottle and was granted three wishes, the 2nd wish would be to kill the idea that Rust belongs anywhere near the top line. He's consistently bad there.

Guentzel-Crosby-Sheary/Sprong
Hagelin-Malkin-Hornqvist
Rust-Brassard-Kessel
Kuhnhackl-Sheahan-Jooris

**** ain't hard Sully. If you don't like Sheary there, call up Sprong. Enough with this ****.



I'd be okay with Kuhn-Sheahan-Jooris going into the playoffs.

I get what you're saying about Rust, and agree. But Sprong isn't happening.

 

[Gurglesons]

How people can argue against Brassard is insane..

The point isn’t replacing Sheahan, it is bumping Sheahan to the fourth line.

Brass is clearly better than Sheahan.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

here's the thing though. If you are happy with 45 points overall for our 3c, Sheahan has 17 points in 33 gp in 2018. Which backs up the eye test that he's been getting better each month. That is a pace for 42.2 points over the course of a regular season.

For me, personally. If I'm shipping out Cole (big mistake) a 1st and a 3rd to upgrade Sheahan. I want to go a bit more then 42 pts, to 45 pts and yes I think what Sheahan has been showing us is sustainable if his linemates would've remained the same. I'm also a guy who really wanted Brassard. But he is truely a 2C. I expect high-high end 3C / low 2C stats out of him here. Especially considering that Malkin/Crosby are gonna pull the tougher assignments.

Your expectations for Brassard are out of whack, then.

Brassard's scored over 45 points only 4 times in his career (two more points and he reaches that mark this season). And that's playing top six minutes, with some top PP unit time.

I don't know how many points you think Brassard usually scores, but scoring in the 40 to 45 range is about what he does.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I get what you're saying about Rust, and agree. But Sprong isn't happening.

That's the situation we find ourselves in. So we need to run the best incarnation of the Geno and Brass lines and let Sid make do with RW scraps, because the answer sure as hell isn't Rust.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I still don't get why Rust doesn't work with Sid. I mean, I'm seeing that it doesn't. I'm just not understanding WHY that would be the case.

Rust seems to have everything Crosby typically likes in a winger. North/South player with great speed and unlike a guy like Dupuis, Rust actually has decent hands.

 

[Gurglesons]

That's the situation we find ourselves in. So we need to run the best incarnation of the Geno and Brass lines and let Sid make do with RW scraps, because the answer sure as hell isn't Rust.

Right now the three lines should be..

Guentzel - Crosby - Hornqvist
Hagelin - Malkin - Rust
Sheary - Brassard - Kessel

When Simon is healthy bump him into Sheary’s role and run either Jooris or Kuhnhackl - Sheahan - Sheary

 

[Gurglesons]

I still don't get why Rust doesn't work with Sid. I mean, I'm seeing that it doesn't. I'm just not understanding WHY that would be the case.

Rust seems to have everything Crosby typically likes in a winger. North/South player with great speed and unlike a guy like Dupuis, Rust actually has decent hands.

Rust likes to carry the puck instead of react to the play which messes Sid up.

 

[JimmyTwoTimes]

I think Brassard is good enough that he doesn’t need Kessel on his line to be a top six centre, unlike Bonino. I might try Kessel somewhere else and have Brass with Rust.

Good point. Especially if they cant gel..no need to force it. Like you said hes good enough , doesnt need someone like kessel to produce.

 

[Ogrezilla]

He was a bright spot last night, but that in and of itself isn't saying much as we collectively were awful. He has been better of late though, on that we agree. I'm not so sure I'd say he's been ''really good'' however. But maybe that's semantics.

No, I'm just disagreeing. He's been really good. I'd say great last night.

 

[Empoleon8771]

When everyone is healthy, I'm expecting the Penguins to run with:

ZAR-Crosby-Guentzel
Hagelin-Malkin-Hornqvist
Rust-Brassard-Kessel
Sheary-Sheahan-Rowney/Jooris

I think this is pretty clearly the end game for Sullivan's lineup, if everyone is healthy. He'll want 5 centers in the lineup, especially a right handed one, and he'll keep ZAR with Crosby because of how well it was working before ZAR got hurt.

 

[Ryder71]

Heres what I'd like to see when healthy:
ZAR-Sid-Sprong
Hags-Geno-Horny
Jake-Brassard-Phil
Sheary-Sheahan-Rust

I think that 1st line would flourish as ZAR has looked very good with Sid, but even if they don't, lines two, three and four are very formidable.

 

[JimmyTwoTimes]

Guentzel - Crosby - ZAR
Hagelin - Malkin - Hornqvist
Simon - Sheahan - Kessel
Sheary - Brassard - Rust

3a and 3b bottom six..equal minutes.