Pre-Game Talk: The All Purpose Off Day Thread | Simon Recalled

[ColePens]

The Pens may be closer to last place in the division than one would think by this time next week if THAT is the lineup Sully uses at home against Vegas and then on the road at Dallas and St Louis.

Rust doesn't fit with Sid. We know that. But, at least one could sort of argue he's a top six forward with Hornqvist and Sheary out.

That said, if you are 2 injuries up front away from Kuhn in the top six, then it's a trifecta of failures . . . failures of coaching (Sully), AHL management (Guerin), and management (JR) of truly epic proportions.

EDIT: Strike that. It was failures of epic proportions LAST GAME. Now, it's also a testament to my argument that the coach with his bench management is doing more to coach them OUT of the playoffs than he is to coach them into the playoffs.



Carl Hagelin should be surgically attached to Geno's hip right now.

Don't fool yourself as they can luck their way into wins when guys like 71 are playing like they are.

This is a situation where the coach is going into the game giving himself a lesser chance to win before the game even starts. It might not be a huge difference in percentage, i'd put it about 5-10 percent, but why would anyone do that? Makes zero sense to me. And if he wants to claim defensive players give a better chance, he's stupid. Flat out stupid. That's playing to lose and in today's professional sports if you are playing to defend, you are playing to lose. You have to be aggressive.

And i wouldn't say epic proportions, yet. But I cannot believe it's February and we haven't fixed this. Blows my mind. It's disappointing, nonetheless. This reminds me of Dan Bylsma. How do you win one way and then come up with this great idea to not replicate it to death? Why would you go with a heavy roster? Why? Why would you ever do that after the last 2 years?

 

[Will Hunting]

Wow, so now they prefer Kuhnhackl in the TOP6 over Sprong.. Sullivan is a real problem this season. Saying that again, he is a problem.

 

[KIRK]

Don't fool yourself as they can luck their way into wins when guys like 71 are playing like they are.

This is a situation where the coach is going into the game giving himself a lesser chance to win before the game even starts. It might not be a huge difference in percentage, i'd put it about 5-10 percent, but why would anyone do that? Makes zero sense to me. And if he wants to claim defensive players give a better chance, he's stupid. Flat out stupid. That's playing to lose and in today's professional sports if you are playing to defend, you are playing to lose. You have to be aggressive.

And i wouldn't say epic proportions, yet. But I cannot believe it's February and we haven't fixed this. Blows my mind. It's disappointing, nonetheless. This reminds me of Dan Bylsma. How do you win one way and then come up with this great idea to not replicate it to death? Why would you go with a heavy roster? Why? Why would you ever do that after the last 2 years?

With everyone healthy, there really aren't 3 scoring lines. Sid's line has been up and down at ES (he's been damn good, save Saturday, but the line is skittish). Phil needs a 3C. It's been HGH. So, Horny goes down, and Sully's 'SOLUTION' is to keep the two lines that are working intermittently and to do the one thing most certain to neuter Geno.

Look at Saturday. Took Geno out of the first half of the game . . . literally with highly limited minutes and figuratively by putting Kuhn on his RW (strike that, Kuhn on his RW literally took Geno out of the game too). Finally put together HMK later in the 2nd, and they found a groove in the 3rd. DESPITE them finding a groove, Sully played HMK a total of 5 minutes in the first 18 minutes of the 3rd.

That's just insane. And, I'm not sure your saying THAT lessened the Pens odds in New Jersey by 5-10% isn't being overly generous.

BTW, here's what they SHOULD be doing since they lack the brains to recall Sprong . . .

Simon-Sid-Phil
Hags-Geno-Rust
Jake-Sheahan-**** off
ZAR-**** off- **** off

Rust has a little too much tunnel vision for me to love him on Geno's RW, but I keep going back to 2016 . . . one armed Geno, broken down Kunitz, and Rust were the best possession line in the playoffs and it wasn't even close. Use Hags and Rust to let Geno play to his strengths.

Honestly, it's times like this I wish Geno's personality weren't 100% the opposite of a guy like Jagr when it comes to stupid coaches, because then Geno would've pimped slapped Sully on Saturday morning and saved us this nightmare.

Wow, so now they prefer Kuhnhackl in the TOP6 over Sprong.. Sullivan is a real problem this season. Saying that again, he is a problem.

What should've been done is to recall Sprong and play him with Geno and Hags or slide Rust down with them and play Sprong with Sid.

What I keep going back to is this . . . when you are 2 injuries away from a coach putting Kuhn in the top six, the problem may begin and lie a ton with stupid coaching, but it certainly doesn't end before one cites the moron managing WBS (Guerin) and the guy who manages the whole show (JR).

 

[Coastal Kev]

haha "worst nightmare". You always keep us entertained!

How would you describe the use of Kuhn??

 

[cheesedanish87]

I don't see a problem with the lines, their are only 12 healthy forwards, their aren't any other options.

Kuhn on Geno's line isn't ideal, but Phil always gets moved up to Geno's line throughout the game.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Hornqvist is out week to week, lovely. I really don't know how the Penguins can afford to not call up another forward, whether it's Sprong (logical one) or someone else. They can't seriously run with Kuhnhackl on the 2nd line for an extended time......right?

 

[KIRK]

I don't see a problem with the lines, their are only 12 healthy forwards, their aren't any other options.

Kuhn on Geno's line isn't ideal, but Phil always gets moved up to Geno's line throughout the game.

Isn't ideal? Try 'neuters Geno'. Saying that isn't ideal is like @ColePens saying @Ogrezilla's shoe collection isn't ideal. It's understatement of the year territory.

And, Phil wasn't 'moved up' in New Jersey until the 2nd period, when the game was out of hand. Know what could've kept it from getting out of hand (aside from our top line not getting eaten for lunch by Travis ******* Zajac)? HMK dictating all game instead of for the 7 minutes of ES TOI Sully deigned in his infinite stupidity to limit them to.

Hornqvist is out week to week, lovely. I really don't know how the Penguins can afford to not call up another forward, whether it's Sprong (logical one) or someone else. They can't seriously run with Kuhnhackl on the 2nd line for an extended time......right?

Sully will run them out of the playoffs by next Monday with Kuhn on the 2nd line. Doubt me? Vegas on Tuesday. At Dallas and St Louis this weekend. How many more points do we have next week?

This situation is on Sully AND Guerin AND JR, and they can all **** off for creating a world in which 2 offensive injuries means Kuhn in the top six.

 

[Coastal Kev]

Wow, so now they prefer Kuhnhackl in the TOP6 over Sprong.. Sullivan is a real problem this season. Saying that again, he is a problem.

Pride comes before the fall.

Something weird happens to coaches when they win early in their careers. Throw in back to back, that something weird turns into..... yikes

 

[KIRK]

Hornqvist is out week to week, lovely. I really don't know how the Penguins can afford to not call up another forward, whether it's Sprong (logical one) or someone else. They can't seriously run with Kuhnhackl on the 2nd line for an extended time......right?

Posted this in the 'are the Pens going to make the playoffs thread' and will post again here in the hope that someone will offer a (semi) persuasive case why Sully turn Horny's absence into another example of how his bench management is doing as more to coach the Pens out of the playoffs as it is to coach them in . . .



Prediction: With games against Vegas and then at Dallas and St Louis over the weekend and with Sully's insane bench management (Rust with Sid, but especially Kuhn in the top six), the Pens are as likely to have as many points in a week as not and will need outside help NOT to be out of the playoffs at this time next Monday.

 

[Old Gregg]

Why not try either

Simon-Sid-Jake
Hags-Geno-Phil
**** off-Sheahan-Rust
ZAR-**** off- **** off

OR

Jake - Sid - Phil
Hags - Geno - Rust
Simon - Sheahan - **** off
ZAR - **** off - **** off

OR

Simon/Jake - Sid - Sprong
Hags - Geno - Phil
Simon/Jake - Sheahan - Rust
ZAR = **** off - **** off

 

[Speaking Moistly]

Don't fool yourself as they can luck their way into wins when guys like 71 are playing like they are.

This is a situation where the coach is going into the game giving himself a lesser chance to win before the game even starts. It might not be a huge difference in percentage, i'd put it about 5-10 percent, but why would anyone do that? Makes zero sense to me. And if he wants to claim defensive players give a better chance, he's stupid. Flat out stupid. That's playing to lose and in today's professional sports if you are playing to defend, you are playing to lose. You have to be aggressive.

And i wouldn't say epic proportions, yet. But I cannot believe it's February and we haven't fixed this. Blows my mind. It's disappointing, nonetheless. This reminds me of Dan Bylsma. How do you win one way and then come up with this great idea to not replicate it to death? Why would you go with a heavy roster? Why? Why would you ever do that after the last 2 years?

Two factors have changed Tocchet and Botteril are gone. It’s possible that they were crucial for pushing for good things, blocking other voices or pushing against some of the crap we’re seeing. After that I’d guess Sullivan outsmarting himself, people, propping up their favourites, being too comfortable or Sullivan not being able to adapt to the roster losses.

JR gets a healthy portion of the blame, too. He introduced Reaves to the equation, the drafting reflects some newfound interest on grit and he’s at the very least enabling some of this. Him failing to land another C is a different area, imo.

We’ve seen Sullivan hold onto stupid things before but he’d usually get over it eventually. This 4th line shit has been going on for a long time and they need to make the playoffs for any postseason scared straight moment.

 

[zero8771]

Sully will run them out of the playoffs by next Monday with Kuhn on the 2nd line. Doubt me? Vegas on Tuesday. At Dallas and St Louis this weekend. How many more points do we have next week?

This situation is on Sully AND Guerin AND JR, and they can all **** off for creating a world in which 2 offensive injuries means Kuhn in the top six.

How in the world are you really looking at Sully and Guerin and JR and coming to this conclusion. They have "created a world" that the Penguins have won the last two Stanley Cups and are in position to challenge for a 3rd. That "infinite stupidity" has our stars playing some of best hockey they have lately and the Pens are 7-3 in the last 10 and have been very good in 2018.

I think you need some perspective on where the pens are and that the NHL is a league where 31 teams are competing to be the best. We have a coach and a GM that have come in to an organization that was on the decline and CONSISTENTLY done the right thing to get the penguins over the edge. These statements you are making are just ridiculous. It's the regular season, coaches job is to get the team into, and ready for, the playoffs. I get that kuhn in top six is not ideal and Reaves experiment is ultimately proving to be a disappointment. But the guys up top have EARNED some leeway here.

 

[wej20]

I don't see a problem with the lines, their are only 12 healthy forwards, their aren't any other options.

Kuhn on Geno's line isn't ideal, but Phil always gets moved up to Geno's line throughout the game.

Well I guess it is better than putting Reaves or Rowney there, it is stupid though.

 

[Shaffer]

I'd like to see:

Simon-Crosby-Kessel
Hagelin-Malkin-ZAR
Guentzel-Sheahan-Rust
Bender-Trash-Scrub

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Missing two top six fwds, Sprong goes back to the A and kills it... end result, Adam's Ghost on line two.

What could go wrong?

 

[Andy99]

Just so disappointing to take a break from work and find out Horny IS out longer term, Sully is still a big moron and Sprong has not yet been called up.

Sully is getting my evil eye for the foreseeable future

They should be running, if they want the best chance to win....
Jake/Simon-Sid-Sprong
Hags-G-Kessel/Rust
Jake/Simon-Sheahan-Kessel/Rust
Whatever....

But I guess winning is no longer the goal....

 

[Speaking Moistly]

Missing two top six fwds, Sprong goes back to the A and kills it... end result, Adam's Ghost on line two.

What could go wrong?

More than two top 6 forwards. It’s two guys who were on the RW, so they call up a LW prospect where they’re healthy and then put him in a position to fail. Ignoring Kuhnhackl, it’s weird. You’d expect a RW to be called up, it would work better.

 

[Andy99]

I also don't understand why neither Sheary nor Horny have been placed on LTIR yet....perhaps they're just waiting to see if they can swing a trade but we may need the cap space from one salary or the other...

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

More than two top 6 forwards. It’s two guys who were on the RW, so they call up a LW prospect where they’re healthy and then put him in a position to fail. Ignoring Kuhnhackl, it’s weird. You’d expect a RW to be called up, it would work better.

I'd love to agree and say it's weird, but I dunno whatever.

Sullivan needs to get over these made up issues he thinks Sprong has.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

Send down ZAR, call up Sprong and/or Di Pauli.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

I also don't understand why neither Sheary nor Horny have been placed on LTIR yet....perhaps they're just waiting to see if they can swing a trade but we may need the cap space from one salary or the other...

Ignoring that ltir is only supposed to be for injuries that mean a player will be out for at least 24 days and 10 games because the nhl doesn’t enforce things. They’re listed as week to week. If they were on ltir and ready to come back after 14 days they couldn’t.

I know Sheary is frustrating and people like to complain about him but he’s still up there for ES production on this team and we’re seeing stupidity break out when they’re down 2 top 9 wingers. “Who cares if Sheary is out longer” doesn’t work as a reason to do it. Players can go on it retroactively, if he’s looking like 2+ weeks still then he can go on it to the same effect They’ve chosen not to call Sprong up.

I'd love to agree and say it's weird, but I dunno whatever.

Sullivan needs to get over these made up issues he thinks Sprong has.

Weird, f***ing stupid. Potato, potatoh. It’s going out of their way not to call him up. I’d also take Blueger getting a shot.

Guentzel-Blueger-Kessel
Rowney-Sheahan-Reaves

Hope Sheahan can drag those two around to at least get something that maybe kind of works. ZAR to play 6 minutes with crap is dumb with the current roster.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Clearly they are trying to give their old buddy Fleury the easy shutout and some much-deserved accolades from the local media that he has been so lacking for so long.

 

[Pens1566]

Not sure how you justify 2 top 6/9 RWs out with injury and you don't call up Sprong, while instead inserting Kuhn into the top 6. Just a ridiculous lineup choice. Yeah, I get it, Sully has won two cups in a row. Doesn't mean he can't make a bad choice.

Betting MAF blanks us ... just a hunch.

 

[Andy99]

Not sure how you justify 2 top 6/9 RWs out with injury and you don't call up Sprong, while instead inserting Kuhn into the top 6. Just a ridiculous lineup choice. Yeah, I get it, Sully has won two cups in a row. Doesn't mean he can't make a bad choice.

Betting MAF blanks us ... just a hunch.

Sullivan is being pig-headed about Sprong. Since he wanted to send him back down, he think it'll look bad on the BS reasons he gave for sending him down if he changes course now and brings him back up. I doubt at this point we'll see Sprong back in the NHL this season even if every one of our RWs go down with season ending injuries.....I hate him about as much as my ex right now....

 

[HandshakeLine]

Don't fool yourself as they can luck their way into wins when guys like 71 are playing like they are.

This is a situation where the coach is going into the game giving himself a lesser chance to win before the game even starts. It might not be a huge difference in percentage, i'd put it about 5-10 percent, but why would anyone do that? Makes zero sense to me. And if he wants to claim defensive players give a better chance, he's stupid. Flat out stupid. That's playing to lose and in today's professional sports if you are playing to defend, you are playing to lose. You have to be aggressive.

And i wouldn't say epic proportions, yet. But I cannot believe it's February and we haven't fixed this. Blows my mind. It's disappointing, nonetheless. This reminds me of Dan Bylsma. How do you win one way and then come up with this great idea to not replicate it to death? Why would you go with a heavy roster? Why? Why would you ever do that after the last 2 years?

Fascinating how every coach this team has ever had tends to flame out after 2 successful seasons. Not to go all TTEOT, but one has to wonder what a sheer coincidence that is, or if that's just confirmation bias.