Boston Bruins The 4th Line Dilemma

[Sheppy]

Kuraly, Acciari, Blidh please.

I'd like to see something like this as well. That line would freight train you constantly. That team would draw enough penalties that it would be worth it for that reason alone...

 

[Concessionaire]

I certainly have no problem with including an up-and-coming player (like Marchand was, once upon a time) on the 4th line.

However, the line has to be able to perform its number one duty which is keeping the puck 200 feet away from Tuukka's net while the other lines catch their breath. Usually it takes savvy, cap-friendly vets who know how to forecheck, grind, and cycle at the NHL level to accomplish this.

AND...there should be at least one, and ideally two, reliable penalty killers on the 4th line, who can reduce the time spent by top-line players on the PK.

If management can find rookie personnel who fit in and add a little extra scoring punch while performing traditional 4th line duties, I'm all for it. But the Bruins had trouble finding scoring beyond the 1st line last season; it's unrealistic to expect a scoring threat from the 4th line.

 

[Don Cherry]

Fourth line plugs shouldn't exist anymore - especially not when the Bruins have this many young players knocking on the door. I like the idea of a defensively competent center that is strong on faceoffs in between two skilled guys on the wing who can possess the puck and who can maintain possession in the offensive zone. Especially if they are continually matched up against other 3rd and 4th lines. I think this could really cause some mismatches in lines for opposing teams - especially if they still employ the useless plugs theory on the fourth line.

Who is the useless plug? For that matter, who are the many young players knocking on the door? The door seems to be wide open.

 

[Jean_Jacket41]

What does Schaller/Nash bring that Czarnik doesn’t?

PK

 

[Fenian24]

What is this love some people have for Austin Czarnik? I see nothing there, nice skater, yay. No grit, not a real high skill level, not a scorer and no size. Is speed this important to some people because Czarnik is as one dimensional as a fighter, just in another way.

Once again a small, soft fourth line will accomplish nothing. If you want to add a pure skill player to a ine like that who can take advantage of turnovers he at least needs to have some physicality to his game, while he does not have to be Bob Probert he can't be Zach Hamill either.

I like Kuraly and Accari is ok but if you want a skilled fourth liner Accari has to go for someone who has his hitting game but also has size and a willingness to drop his gloves.

 

[BruinDust]

Just a quick check of the traditional "tough guys" still on NHL rosters in the Atlantic Division.

Martin - Toronto
Haley - Florida
Nolan (who was just on waivers) - Buffalo

That's it.

Meanwhile, folks here still want the Bruins to roll out two of these types of players on the 4th line for their vaunted toughness.

 

[BruinsFanSince94]

With the players we have, my ideal 4th line would be:

Kuraly -- Czarnik -- Acciari

Size, skill, speed, and offensive capabilities. Czarnik, while small has shown good two way ability. He can kill PK's and has some tenacity. Kuraly, we've seen has ability to chip in offensively, and has good size with speed. Acciari hits everything that moves. He also showed some upside offensively at the end of the year. The only thing this line lacks is experience, but that would come with time. Also, having Czarnik there gives you a guy who could slide up in a pinch, as he can play both center and RW.

 

[Mainehockey33]

PK

Czarnik also plays PK.

 

[bob27]

Just try to put out the best group of players possible on the 4th line. The fabled Merlot line wasn't a trio of unskilled goons. Thornton surely could fight, but he scored 10 goals and 20 points in 2011, which is very decent prodcution for a 4th liner. Campbell had 29 points and Paille was on pace for 25. That was a line of good hockey players first and foremost with a mix of scoring, two-way play and grit.

 

[GloryDaze4877]

Who do we have that has been put in that position that can do all of those things?

You and Hughes are not getting it. There is no ONE GUY that brings all that and if there is, he’s playing in the Top 6

I’m talking about a LINE that can skate, hit and have some skill, and the only way you get that with a 4th line is by mixing 3 players with different abilities not 3 guys with the same abilities, whether it’s offensive, defensive or fighting.

Also, Heinen, JFK, Gabrielle can all kill penalties, Czarnik as well.

 

[Sheppy]

I never once said we need a 4th line full of fighters, so people should probably stop putting words in my mouth. I'm saying it's more effective to have a guy who can crash and bang, stand up for a teammate, and not be intimidated. I'm saying I'd rather have a 4th line with the likes of a Kuraly, Accairi and a guy like Kassian/Ritchie type there rather than a few welterweights skating around, getting hemmed in their own zone and providing next to nothing other than "hopeful offensive upside".

Acciari - Kuraly - and a Kassian/Ritchie type guy. Despite what people think, they are out there and don't cost a fortune.

I'd like a guy who can go out and fire up a building. Shawn Thornton did it in his first shift during the cup finals, and it wasn't a nice looking outlook pass that fired the place up, it was him crushing someone the moment he stepped on the ice. But yeah, that was like a billion years ago and has zero to do with todays game. That's right.

If having a guy on the 4th line who can hammer someone on a nightly basis is the one reason your team isn't successful, you have bigger issues as whole.

 

[GloryDaze4877]

I never once said we need a 4th line full of fighters, so people should probably stop putting words in my mouth. I'm saying it's more effective to have a guy who can crash and bang, stand up for a teammate, and not be intimidated. I'm saying I'd rather have a 4th line with the likes of a Kuraly, Accairi and a guy like Kassian/Ritchie type there rather than a few welterweights skating around, getting hemmed in their own zone and providing next to nothing other than "hopeful offensive upside".

Acciari - Kuraly - and a Kassian/Ritchie type guy. Despite what people think, they are out there and don't cost a fortune.

I'd like a guy who can go out and fire up a building. Shawn Thornton did it in his first shift during the cup finals, and it wasn't a nice looking outlook pass that fired the place up, it was him crushing someone the moment he stepped on the ice. But yeah, that was like a billion years ago and has zero to do with todays game. That's right.

If having a guy on the 4th line who can hammer someone on a nightly basis is the one reason your team isn't successful, you have bigger issues as whole.

You mean kinda like people implying (not you) that I want a 4th line with 3 skill guys and no grit?

 

[Sheppy]

Lets just see what happens with our 4th line by the time November/December comes around and how they're effective.

 

[BruinDust]

Acciari - Kuraly - and a Kassian/Ritchie type guy. Despite what people think, they are out there and don't cost a fortune.

Where are they?

Ritchie was a 1st rounder and is actually a pretty good hockey player. Most would love a Ritchie type on the 3rd line let alone the 4th.

Kassian is also a pretty decent player, and could play on the 3rd line of some teams. Those types of guys are outliers, and hard to come by. If Kassian had his head on straight 3-4 years ago he's still in Vancouver.

If your talking a Reeves, or Martin, guys who are big, tough, and can SKATE (crucial) those guys are hard to come across now as well, not as hard as Ritchie-types but still pretty rare. The AHL is full of guys who are big and tough but can't skate to save their lives, which is why they are in the AHL and not the NHL. The skating ability part isn't really optional anymore.

Personally I'd prefer to see the Bruins grab a Reeves-type if he can be found, but if they did find one, he needs to be in the line-up at the expense of Acciari, not the other winger who should be more well-rounded and have at least some offensive potential like they had with Paille in his prime.

 

[DKH]

I think you ice the best team possible. Czarnik is a better hockey player than Nash. Neither are physical so it’s not like we’re any softer, but Czarnik is a better skater, playmaker, and can still kill penalties. Put Kuraly and Acciari on his wings and you have a fourth line that will give team fits.

Love it

 

[NDiesel]

You are right. I don't like the idea of a slow banging line, I also don't like a pure skill 4th line. We don't accept players that are one dimensional, why on Earth should we accept lines that are one dimensional?

Bruins could easily find a nice balance with those players listed. However I must say......if our biggest dilemma is the composition of our 4th line, then we are going to be in for a long (post)season.

 

[northeastern]

Personally I want 1 to 2 kids with speed and skill, a defensive minded player/ pk specialist and to have one of those 3 have some size or ability to throw hits to bring some grit (this can come from a kid or the pk guy I don't care).

I like the Kuraly -- Czarnik -- Acciari as mentioned above.

The D has size in McQuaid, Miller and chara to defend the kids. A 4th line of goons will Get skated around if they get mismatched versus a fast tip line and their size and grit doesn't help when they can't catch anyone in order to hit them

 

[Fenian24]

Personally I want 1 to 2 kids with speed and skill, a defensive minded player/ pk specialist and to have one of those 3 have some size or ability to throw hits to bring some grit (this can come from a kid or the pk guy I don't care).

I like the Kuraly -- Czarnik -- Acciari as mentioned above.

The D has size in McQuaid, Miller and chara to defend the kids. A 4th line of goons will Get skated around if they get mismatched versus a fast tip line and their size and grit doesn't help when they can't catch anyone in order to hit them

That's been a long standing straw man argument for people who don't like goons/fighters/physical players. While the speed of the game has changed a fourth line fighter has his place on the team. If Accarri could learn how to fight it would be very helpful but he is one of Sweeney's smurfs so I don't see it happening.

 

[ODAAT]

Rarely do I have the door left open for me to come on here and say "I told ya so" and truthfully, I still don`t really have that option available to me on this subject yet but I proposed this a few years ago, asking out loud if it would be possible some day to ice a team who`s 4th line leaned heavier on the skill side with less of a focus on how we typically view a 4th line and I was ceremoniously laughed at (no hard feelings, I`m used to it)

 

[GloryDaze4877]

That's been a long standing straw man argument for people who don't like goons/fighters/physical players. While the speed of the game has changed a fourth line fighter has his place on the team. If Accarri could learn how to fight it would be very helpful but he is one of Sweeney's smurfs so I don't see it happening.

When you say stuff like Acciari is one of Sweeney’s “smurfs”, you lose any credibility you might have had and just sound like a clown.

I don’t think I have ever seen a Smurf who was 5’10”, 210 pounds and jacked? You?

 

[Krupp]

I feel like I didn't articulate myself well in the other thread, so I'll try again here...

I have NO issues whatsoever with incorporating speed and skill into the fourth line. This is the new NHL, and you gotta roll with the punches one way or another. That 2011 cup team had the Merlot Line, but that group is long gone now. How do you go about replacing that, is the question? I don't think it's as simple as throwing together the best of the skilled or talented bunch, nor just throwing a couple of heavy hitters on a line.

What is essential for a fourth line, to me, is that they are able to achieve exactly what the Merlot Line achieved; they weren't a bunch of goons playing. They were excellent forecheckers, guys who could pin another team's D in their own zone for increased amounts of time. They didn't always score (in fact, MOST of the time they didn't, obviously) but when the process was working, it was a thing of beauty. The Merlot Line was considered by more than a few people and pundits as one of the very best in the league.

So to me, with the small allotment of time eac one of these three players on the fourth line are given every game, it is vital to have three guys who can maximize their input and influence in the game in such a short few minutes. That doesn't mean throwing guys like Belesky on the fourth line with Acciari and hope they just go out and hit everything in sight. You have to make sure the fourth can play a full game. So, assuming Nash is the fourth line center (I'd rather he wasn't, but at least he can play D fairly well and handle PK duties), who do you put with him? Who can work best with him to get out of their own zone, and really keep the other team running backward?

I'm not saying I have the answer to that question. I'm just not sure who should be on the fourth line. I trust Cassidy's decision over mine any day of the week. I worry that a mixed bag fourth line - with acciari, nash, and heinen, for example - might not gel well enough together. But who should get those spots then? I'm all for developing young talent, but this is a team that will once again be fighting for a playoff spot. You have to put together the best roster that can win NOW. I would think that's a bit more important than worrying about a player's development through rising up line by line.

But I could be very wrong.

 

[EON]

Agreed. I'm tired of the notion that you need to have a grinder/physical fourth line. The days of the merlot line are gone. It's okay to have some of those guys but you need speed and skill throughout your lineup now.

It pains me to see both Vatrano and Kuraly potentially sitting (when Bergeron and Backes are healthy).

 

[Fenian24]

Why? What does Vatrano bring to the table besides a shot. I hope he is one of the first ones dealt for some grit. Having a nice shot but no hockey sense or the highly valued speed doesn't make him anything but a healthy scratch when the team is healthy. I like Kuraly's game, he actually has some size and jam to his game.

 

[GloryDaze4877]

Why? What does Vatrano bring to the table besides a shot. I hope he is one of the first ones dealt for some grit. Having a nice shot but no hockey sense or the highly valued speed doesn't make him anything but a healthy scratch when the team is healthy. I like Kuraly's game, he actually has some size and jam to his game.

Plus, he’s one of Sweeney’s Smurfs...

 

[BruinsFanSince94]

That's been a long standing straw man argument for people who don't like goons/fighters/physical players. While the speed of the game has changed a fourth line fighter has his place on the team. If Accarri could learn how to fight it would be very helpful but he is one of Sweeney's smurfs so I don't see it happening.

So you cry that the Bruins aren't tough enough, but cry because one of their more physical players doesn't fight as well?