THE 2010 DOUBLE-A DRAFT (sign-up, roster post, picks, discussion, etc)

[tony d]

The Whalers select Mikko Koivu, C

Good pick, myself and Dave were thinking of picking him sometime this week.

 

[VanIslander]

Mikko Koivu is overplayed by the Wild, isn't an NHL first liner. I think of how Peca was similarly misused. Ideally, he's a third liner on a great NHL team. He really only has had 3 good NHL seasons and three-quarters of a fourth. If we had a 400-min. games for present day NHLers he wouldn't be a valid pick (regret, regret). Touted, expected, counted on, but really not a top-6 talent in an all-time context, even at this level. I am not a fan of this pick. Still, he does have two 40-assist seasons and brings leadership even if just a youthful face on a lowly franchise.

 

[BillyShoe1721]

A great 3rd liner? Koivu is a legit top 6 center in an NHL context at the very least, and is a first line center with a tremendous two-way ability if you ask me. He's got a .771 career PPG as a young player.

 

[VanIslander]

A great 3rd liner? Koivu is a legit top 6 center in an NHL context at the very least, and is a first line center with a tremendous two-way ability if you ask me. He's got a .771 career PPG as a young player.

He'd be a 2nd line pivot on a good NHL team (a 3rd liner on a GREAT NHL team). He has had a short, forgettable career. He wears the 'C' to carry the hopes of the franchise. Tremendous two-way? Maximum 22 goals a season. Three notable such seasons. Yes, two good assist seasons playing with the top wingers. That's it.

I like the guy. I wish him a good future. The Wild are hoping he'll help turn the franchise around. But if his career ended today, 50 years from now he'd be long forgotten and be 'eh' for anything he's done.

 

[seventieslord]

He seems a lot like Steve Rucchin. Get him a couple of playmaking wingers and all is fine (on the top line of a basement team ).

I wouldn't agree. Rucchin was more of a defensive star, for sure, so probably warranted earlier selection, but offensively, McKechnie was just plain better. He didn't need his linemates to put up points.

- 1976, led Detroit with 82 points, 16 more than anyone else.
- 1979, 5th on Toronto with 61 points, Williams and McDonald played with Sittler, meaning Maloney & Boutette were his likely 2nd line linemates, he outscored them by 8 and 28 points
- 1977, led Detroit with 59 points, 13 more than anyone else.
- 1982, only Detroit hotshot rookie Mark Osborne outscored him, they were likely both first liners.
- 1973, he led California in points
- 1974, he was behind an undrafted player and Boldirev (another center) in points, but missed some time and had more points per game than Boldirev.

To answer your icetime question: over his 955 career games, he averaged about 17.39 minutes per game. For comparison's sake, Kirk Muller averaged 18.05 over a longer career. Joe Mullen averaged 17.46. He was critical to his teams, his teams just sucked. And yeah, he has to take some blame for that, not for sucking, but not being good enough to be the guy on a great or good team.

Starting in 1973, when he became a go-to guy, he was 1st, 3rd, 11th (Boston used him very little), 1st, 1st, 3rd, 6th, 2nd, 2nd, 3rd, 5th in icetime among forwards on his teams.

 

[VanIslander]

... over his 955 career games, he averaged about 17.39 minutes per game. For comparison's sake, Kirk Muller averaged 18.05 over a longer career. Joe Mullen averaged 17.46.

Starting in 1973, when he became a go-to guy, he was 1st, 3rd, 11th (Boston used him very little), 1st, 1st, 3rd, 6th, 2nd, 2nd, 3rd, 5th in icetime among forwards on his teams.

He was top-3 in ice time among forwards for 8 seasons? That's nice to know.

(BTW, I always thought of Muller and Mullen as 2nd line guys.)

 

[seventieslord]

He was top-3 in ice time among forwards for 8 seasons? That's nice to know.

(BTW, I always thought of Muller and Mullen as 2nd line guys.)

Hard to believe there would be many times throughout Mullen's prime where there would be 21 wingers more deserving of a first line spot.

As it applies to McKechnie, no, ideally, he was not a true first liner, he was on bad teams, but on good teams he could have been a good two-way 2nd liner. But, I mean, those are the kind of guys we're drafting at the AA level so that doesn't really bother me. the guy was almost always outscoring his linemates so he was the catalyst for them and not vice versa, with the caveat that his linemates were often mediocre.

Once he found his groove in 1973, he averaged 18.33 minutes a game from then on.

 

[Hedberg]

Madison selects C Nils Nilsson

IIHF Hall of Fame (2002)

Olympic Silver Medalist (1964)

2 x World Championship Gold Medalist (1957, 1962)
3 x World Championship Silver Medalist (1963, 1964, 1967)
2 x World Championship Bronze Medalist (1958, 1965)

IIHF Best Forward (1960)
IIHF Top Scorer (1962)
IIHF All-Star (1962)

Guldpucken Winner (1966) – MVP
2 x Most Goals (1960, 1961)
5 x All-Star (1959, 1960, 1962, 1965, 1967)

Regular Season
Games: 242
Goals: 319
Assists: 134
Points: 453

Play-offs
Games: 14
Goals: 8
Assists: 6
Points: 14

6th in Points, 4th in Goals, Best Forward 1960 Olympics
1st in Points, 1st in Goals 1962 World Championships
8th in Points, 7th in Goals 1965 World Championships

IIHF:

There are sports events which reach mythological proportions over time for reasons which are somewhat difficult for a worldwide audience to fully appreciate. And there is no question that Sweden’s gold-medal victory at the 1962 World Championship in Colorado Springs would probably not have been perceived as such a huge achievement by Swedish fans had not the win for ever been linked with a play-by-play radio commentary by legendary announcer Lennart Hyland. Tell the words “Den glider i màl” (“It slides into the net”) to a Swede and he will immediately refer to Hyland’s commentary of forward Nisse Nilsson’s empty-net goal that sealed Sweden’s 5-3 win over heavy favourite Canada at the Broadmoor World Arena in Colorado Springs, Colorado.

The empty-net goal that forward Nisse Nilsson scored (his second goal of the game) with an ice-length shot was technically not a game winner, but that was the puck that was accompanied all the way down the ice by Hyland’s emotional “Den glider i màààààààl…” At around 6.30 in the morning Swedish sports history was written and for the Scandinavian country this radio clip has become an integral part of its history, fully comparable with how Canadians perceive Foster Hewitt’s “Henderson has scored for Canada” in 1972.

From Triffy in AAA10:

Nils Nilsson was a key player for Sweden's national team for a decade. He won two world championships. Tumba Johansson was always the the player in the limelight but Nilsson actually outscored Tumba in the 8 world championship tournaments they both played in. In 47 games, Nilsson scored 47 goals and added 17 assists, combining 64 points in total. Tumba scored 38 goals and added 22 assists (60 points) in 38 games. Nilsson also gathered more all-star selections in Swedish national league.

Credit to Dreakmur for stats, awards, and competition finishes.

 

[MadArcand]

Mikko Koivu is overplayed by the Wild, isn't an NHL first liner. I think of how Peca was similarly misused. Ideally, he's a third liner on a great NHL team. He really only has had 3 good NHL seasons and three-quarters of a fourth. If we had a 400-min. games for present day NHLers he wouldn't be a valid pick (regret, regret). Touted, expected, counted on, but really not a top-6 talent in an all-time context, even at this level. I am not a fan of this pick. Still, he does have two 40-assist seasons and brings leadership even if just a youthful face on a lowly franchise.

So Mikko Koivu ain't viable AA-draftee but bloody Kesler in MLD is a-ok? The gap between Koivu and say Getzlaf is far smaller than between ATD and AA role, yet Koivu is bad pick in AA? C'mon... His peak compares well to other 1st liners here.

I'm not decided on which line I'll play him yet. He might end up giving me an insane two-way punch down the middle with Carter and Lang if things work out the way I hope they will.

 

[seventieslord]

I love Koivu as a player and I love him as a pick.

As a top-2 center, I don't like him, because there are still tons of forwards out there with numerous solid offensive seasons If Koivu was a winger, he could be the defensive conscience on my AA first line any day. But with all the depth at center, I see him as a 3rd liner even at this level, and this is really only because of the length of his career at this time.

I do think Kesler's better, thanks to his defense and agitation, but there's no need for such a gap between when these two are selected.

 

[seventieslord]

A little more on John Anderson:

Anderson scored 631 points in 814 games, mostly in the 1980s. He's best known as a Leaf and a Whaler, although he did spend a part of a season in Quebec as well. Primarily a goalscorer, he had six seasons with 29+ goals, but also four seasons with 68+ points and three more with 53+. that's just not something you're going to find in a RW available this deep.

Anderson's scouting reports describe him as a guy with speed and elusive moves, who can also play LW, had size and strength (5'11", 200), sometimes lacked confidence. in 1984, he's called good defensively, then in 1985, good defensively, "when he wants to be". In 1988, he's dscribed as "better than average" defensively. He was especially dangerous on the PP. He will hit, work the corners, and take the rough stuff in front of the net. In 1988, it's said that he "got very old very fast", which, in retrospect, was very common for marginal stars in the 1987-1991 time period.

Mike Leonetti's excellent "maple Leafs top-100" from 2006 ranked Anderson 67th all-time among maple leafs dating back to 1927, based on his eight seasons with the team. Undrafted players ranked above him? None. Undrafted players ranked in the 33 spots below him? Three.

Anderson had the 37th-most points in the 1980s, 36 spots and 125 points ahead of the next highest-scoring 1980s player.

 

[MadArcand]

I love Koivu as a player and I love him as a pick.

As a top-2 center, I don't like him, because there are still tons of forwards out there with numerous solid offensive seasons If Koivu was a winger, he could be the defensive conscience on my AA first line any day. But with all the depth at center, I see him as a 3rd liner even at this level, and this is really only because of the length of his career at this time.

I do think Kesler's better, thanks to his defense and agitation, but there's no need for such a gap between when these two are selected.

As I said, if everything works out, he'll likely be 3rd line C. I don't pick based on lines now, more based on who's likely to get snagged from my list first.

 

[VanIslander]

So Mikko Koivu ain't viable AA-draftee but bloody Kesler in MLD is a-ok?

I objected to the Kesler pick at that time!

The gap between Koivu and say Getzlaf is far smaller than between ATD and AA role, yet Koivu is bad pick in AA?

Getzlaf was a marginal ATD pick but he had two all-star games, a 3rd and 7th assists seasons, two dominant playoffs including top scorer for a Stanley Cup championship. History will NOT forget him. There is a significant gap in terms of accomplishment between Getzlaf and Koivu.

Suggestion: Getzlaf to the MLD 2nd line, Kesler and Koivu to the Double-A 4th line or Single-A 3rd line. In the name of justice.

 

[VanIslander]

Edmonton drafts Petr Klima.

* 313 goals in 786 NHL games (0.4 goals/game)
* Stanley Cup (1990)
* scored at 55:13 of overtime in the longest game in the history of the Stanley Cup Finals

Petr Klima was a multi-talented but enigmatic forward who could play both wings. He was a fast skater with a quick release and superior puck handling skills whose inconsistent play cost him superstardom. One of the most exciting forwards in the league when his head was in the game, Klima played 786 contests for five different teams

The gifted forward played for Czechoslovakia at the World Junior Championships winning silver in 1983 and bronze in 1984. He also scored three points in five games for his country at the 1984 Canada Cup. He scored 45 points in 35 games for his club team in 1984-85 before escaping to the West.

Klima scored 32 goals as a rookie in 1985-86 and consistently produced at this pace in his first four years although he was capable of doing better. The high point of his Detroit tenure was scoring ten goals while helping the club reach the semifinals in 1988. This output broke the old mark set by Gordie Howe in 1955 and equaled by "number 9" in 1964.

The talented sniper scored a personal-best 40 goals in 70 games in 1990-91. Overall he produced 118 goals in just under four seasons in Alberta.

 

[tony d]

Fiddlesticks I was about to come in here and pick Klima as well. You beat me to it, great pickup for your team.

 

[tony d]

In any event Johnstown selects Vinny Prospal, Centre.

Prospal is one of leading point getters left. He has great playmaking ability as shown by his 439 career assists.

More on Prospal can be found here:

http://www.legendsofhockey.net/LegendsOfHockey/jsp/SearchPlayer.jsp?player=14882

 

[MadArcand]

Joe Murphy, RW

- a solid offensive producer with 0.52 ESPG and 0.21 PPPG
- has three great playoff runs to his name, winning one Cup
- a wealth of playoff experience with 120 GP

 

[seventieslord]

Klima - Don't be too sorry to miss him. Last night I was pretty sure I wanted him to be a top-6 RW; I thought we had gone deep enough for me to ignore all the negatives - but looking at who else was still out there, we haven't. Klima is perhaps the most one-dimensional player ever. And it's not like his offense is that dominant either. He had 5 50-point seasons and a career high of 68 points.

Prospal is a lot like Nylander to me. I don't know which of the two I prefer - the guy who made a career out of dominating other 2nd lines, or the guy who has always been a complementary player to someone much better. (and not the usual complementary player either, he's strictly offense)

Joe Murphy actually had the most career playoff points amng available players. Klima was 2nd. It's slim pickings from here. Murphy had a ton of negatives associated with him too; I don't think they were quite as bad as Klima, but I don't know if he's as offensively established as Klima either. He had morepoints in 1992 and 1994 than Klima ever had, but I don't know that he really had as much upside.

 

[seventieslord]

To make sure we don't miss out on having a really good even strength and PP point producer from the blueline, Saskatoon is pleased to select Mike McEwen, D.

- 3 Stanley Cups
- 404 Points in 716 games
- 48 points in 78 playoff games

smooth, quick, shifty, a good puckhandler... low shot from the point makes him effective on the powerplay

can skate and shoot, although he is still adjusting to the team's defensive system.

Rangers and Rockies made mistakes by trading him... lightning-fast shot from the blueline... improving defensively under Al Arbour...

 

[seventieslord]

More on Klima - His career adjusted +/- of -71 is practically inexcusable. I'll explain why:

Players with bad adjusted +/- in their careers tend to be guys who just werent very good offensively and inevitably got outscored. Or, they were guys who were so good defensively that they were matched up against the opposition's best. Or a combination of both. Or, they were just marginal players. After all, with 700 players in the league, some of them have to be below average and some of them have to be close enough to average to last long enough to compile a poor career total.

But I looked into the minutes, and Klima was getting 2nd line ES minutes basically his entire career, even on a weak Tampa team. This means two things: 1) He was not the focus of opposing checkers which gave him the chance to forge a Nylander-type career if he wanted. and 2) He was not going up against the opposition's best either (we know this from the type of player he was anyway)

So, Klima was playing sheltered 2nd line minutes and was a pretty good ES producer (0.49 adjusted ESPPG) - This should translate into a very good adjusted +/-. But Klima got outscored so badly at even strength by opposing 2nd lines, that his impact was arguably negative.

I looked into all the remaining players with a career -30 or worse, and Klima was the best producer out of all of them. So to have such a poor final result, his defensive value had to be negative to a much greater degree.

 

[VanIslander]

Select the BPA? or the guy with a skillset in low supply from a short shortlist for that role/position? or the guy in high demand who might be gone before long? or the guy most deserving of earlier selection?

These questions have never pulled me in so many different directions as they do right now. Arrrgh!

Then there's the question mark who seems more than worthy but more research is needed if it's even possible to determine with greater certainty.

 

[VanIslander]

The Blue Jays select defenseman Al MacNeil, described as "rugged", who recorded 310 PIMs during his three-year peak in the middle of 7 consecutive NHL seasons played between 1961-1968, scoring two 19-assist seasons in the Original Six Era, leading all Chicago blueliners in 1962-63 and finishing 2nd to Pilote the following season.

... a tough defensive defenseman

http://www.legendsofhockey.net/html/spot_oneononep199502.htm

Defenseman Al MacNeil played over 500 NHL games in the 50s and 60s. He was capable of taking the body in his own end and was fairly effective at passing the puck ahead to his forwards.

Born in Sydney, Nova Scotia, MacNeil was a Toronto Maple Leafs prospect and played three years with the junior Marlboros. During his first four pro seasons he was mostly used as a injury replacement while seeing full time duty with the Rochester Americans of the AHL. The one exception was his 53-game tenure on the Toronto blueline in 1953-54.

In June, 1960, MacNeil was traded to the Montreal Canadiens who assigned him to the EPHL's Hull-Ottawa Canadiens for the entire 1960-61 schedule. The next season he played 61 games and provided grit and steady play in his own end for the Habs. With youngsters like Jacques Laperriere waiting in the wings, Montreal opted to send MacNeil to the Chicago Black Hawks in May, 1962. He went on to enjoy the finest stretch of his career as a regular for the next four years on one of the top clubs in the league.

In June 1966 he was claimed by the Habs then the Rangers in the Intra-League Draft. He played steadily in 58 games for the Blueshirts and helped them reach the post-season for the first time since 1962.

http://www.legendsofhockey.net/LegendsOfHockey/jsp/SearchPlayer.jsp?player=13480

 

[MadArcand]

Shawn McEachern, LW

- 0.57 ESPG
- played a lot on special teams atop it
- almost 100 games of playoff experience
- won the Cup with Pens in '92
- won World Cup with USA in '96

Left-winger Shawn McEachern has been a reliable scorer and solid defensive player since entering the NHL late in the 1991-92 schedule.

Upon joining Ottawa, the clever forward became a regular point producer and team leader on one of the league's top clubs. Beginning in 1997-98, McEachern began a run of four straight 20-goal seasons. His speed and scoring touch were important factors in the Sens reaching the 100-point mark in 1999 and 2001.

 

[VanIslander]

Edmonton drafts Dan Quinn.

Quinn owned an arsenal of talents - from quick hands to quicker feet, from a good shot to great vision.

* 685 points in 805 NHL games
* four straight seasons of 30 or more goals (30, 31, 40, 34)
* 123 powerplay goals (71 of them NOT in Pittsburgh)
* six straight seasons of 60 or more points (72, 80, 79, 94, 63, 60)
* scored 15 playoff points to the Stanley Cup Finals with Calgary in 1986
* scored 11 playoff points to the divisional finals with St. Louis in 1991

 

[DaveG]

Middlebury selects RW Donald Audette

Donald Audette played his junior hockey with the Laval Titan of the Quebec Major Junior Hockey League. Although a small player even by major-junior standards, he developed into a hard working winger with the toughness and grit necessary to score goals in close around the crease. Audette entered the NHL Entry Draft in 1988, and despite having put up excellent numbers for Laval during the 1987-88 season (48 goals and 61 assists in 63 games played), went undrafted.

Audette continued his stellar play with Laval the following season, posting even more impressive stats. During the 1988-89 season, Audette scored 76 goals and 85 assists, finishing third in the QMJHL in both goals and total points. Audette was back in the pool for the 1989 Entry Draft. Still, despite his stellar junior numbers, teams shied away from his because of his diminuitive stature. Finally, in the 9th Round of the Draft, Buffalo Sabres General Manager Gerry Meehan took a chance and drafted Audette.

Audette was assigned to Buffalo's American Hockey league affiliate, the Rochester Americans, for the 1989-90 season. Once again, he proved that despite his lack of size he could put the puck in the net. In 70 games for the Amerks that year, Audette scored 42 goals and 46 assists, finishing the season third on the team in goals and second in total points. He played in 15 Playoff games for the Amerks, finishing second on the team in Playoff scoring. He made his NHL debut in the 1990 Stanley Cup Playoffs, appearing in two games with the Sabres. At season's end, he was named to the AHL's First All-Star Team and awarded with the Dudley "Red" Garret Memorial Trophy, as the AHL's Rookie of the Year. He was also named the Rochester Americans' Most Popular Player.

more here: http://www.sabreslegends.com/audette_d_bio.html

A big-time success story, Audette was drafted 183rd overall and looked to be filler for the Sabres minor-league teams. He had taken the Laval Titan to the Memorial Cup finals in 1988-89 during a year in which he scored 76 goals and 161 points, despite his small stature.

The next year he was assigned to Rochester, and again proved his worth by scoring 42 goals to win the AHL rookie of the year award, and he scored another four times in just eight games with the Sabres. In his first full season he scored 31 goals and was named the team's top rookie, subsequently establishing himself as a solid 20-goal man in the league.

In all, Audette played nine years with Buffalo. He missed 22 games in 1992-93 after serious knee injury, and in 1995-96 missed more than half a season after reconstructive surgery for a torn ACL. Each time he bounced back to score more and play effective, two-way hockey, but in 1998-99 he was traded to Los Angeles and the year after to the fledgling Atlanta Thrashers.

In 2000-01, he proved his worth in spades, scoring 32 goals for the Trashers. But he was on the move again, back to Buffalo by season's end, a proven scorer back to where it all began.

The Laval, Quebec native played ony 12 games with Sabres his second time around before moving on to Dallas and then Montreal where he has spent the better part of the past two seasons. After beginning the 2003-04 season in Montreal, Audette spent some time with the team's AHL affiliate in Toronto before joining the Florida Panthers just prior to the All-Star break.