THE 2010 DOUBLE-A DRAFT (sign-up, roster post, picks, discussion, etc)

[VanIslander]

Let's do this for the 1st team all-stars (since they are to have the HIGHEST ratings).

Viktor Yakushev

Speed: 90 (all Soviets are fast unless noted otherwise)
Acceleration: 85
Agility: 85
Deke: 85
Balance: 90
Puck Control: 95
Endurance: 99 (the Soviets are legendary with their training and fitness regime)
Face Offs: 99 (the best given he's the only 1st team all-star center)
Passing: 90
Slap Shot Power: 85
Slap Shot Accuracy: 85
Wrist Shot Power: 85
Wrist Shot Accuracy: 85
Hero Rating ("Clutch"): 95 (top forward at worlds gold; 2nd in scoring olympic gold)
Aggressiveness: 85
Checking: 89 (expected of Soviet centers, but 90s should be reserved for bottom-6 guys)
Toughness: 85
Resist Penalties:
Resist Injuries: 99 (the guy played for 20 years)
Potential: 90 (WHAT IS THIS CATEGORY ABOUT?)
Prestige (out of 15): 15 (HE'S A BLOODY 1ST TEAM ALL-STAR)
Shoot-Pass (out of 15): 12
Pass-Carry (out of 15): 14 (expected of Soviet pivots, centered top Soviet line for years)
Defense-Offense (out of 15): 12 (IS THIS CATEGORY ABOUT TWO-WAY PLAY?)

 

[VanIslander]

For example, here is Brian Gionta’s in game rating:

But he is a 1st team all-star at the level of competition in the Double-A Draft (no Ovechkin's or Crosby's).

Brian Gionta

ADJUSTED:

Overall: 84+15=99 (the only scoring line 1st team all-star winger)
Speed: 92+5=97
Acceleration: 94+5=99
Agility: 97
Deke: 91+5=96
Balance: 79+10=89
Puck Control: 86+7=93
Endurance: 92
Face Offs: 66
Passing: 83+5=88
Slap Shot Power: 87+5=92
Slap Shot Accuracy: 88+5=93
Wrist Shot Power: 86+5=91
Wrist Shot Accuracy: 85+5=90
Hero Rating ("Clutch"): 94+5=99 (as the only top-6 winger all-star he ought to be)
Aggressiveness: 87+5=92
Checking: 64+10=74
Toughness: 65+10=75
Resist Penalties: 70+10=80
Resist Injuries: 99
Potential: 83+10=93
Prestige (out of 15): 72 (?????? 72 out of 15.... 13)
Shoot-Pass (out of 15): 2+8=10
Pass-Carry (out of 15): 11+3=14
Defense-Offense (out of 15): 9+3=12

 

[VanIslander]

Those are the only two top-6 forwards on the 1st all-star team. So they should SET THE STANDARD for our ratings of forwards in terms of offense.

 

[Hedberg]

Potential: 90 (WHAT IS THIS CATEGORY ABOUT?)

I believe it's for the long-term game modes to determine if the player gets better or worse through the years. We can ignore it.

Defense-Offense (out of 15): 12 (IS THIS CATEGORY ABOUT TWO-WAY PLAY?)

I think it's about how quickly the player will move towards defensive or offensive roles (for example, Semin is a 12 and Madden is a 6 on the default ratings).

 

[Hedberg]

Let's do this for the 1st team all-stars (since they are to have the HIGHEST ratings).

Viktor Yakushev

Speed: 90 (all Soviets are fast unless noted otherwise)
Acceleration: 85
Agility: 85
Deke: 85
Balance: 90
Puck Control: 95
Endurance: 99 (the Soviets are legendary with their training and fitness regime)
Face Offs: 99 (the best given he's the only 1st team all-star center)
Passing: 90
Slap Shot Power: 85
Slap Shot Accuracy: 85
Wrist Shot Power: 85
Wrist Shot Accuracy: 85
Hero Rating ("Clutch"): 95 (top forward at worlds gold; 2nd in scoring olympic gold)
Aggressiveness: 85
Checking: 89 (expected of Soviet centers, but 90s should be reserved for bottom-6 guys)
Toughness: 85
Resist Penalties:
Resist Injuries: 99 (the guy played for 20 years)
Potential: 90 (WHAT IS THIS CATEGORY ABOUT?)
Prestige (out of 15): 15 (HE'S A BLOODY 1ST TEAM ALL-STAR)
Shoot-Pass (out of 15): 12
Pass-Carry (out of 15): 14 (expected of Soviet pivots, centered top Soviet line for years)
Defense-Offense (out of 15): 12 (IS THIS CATEGORY ABOUT TWO-WAY PLAY?)

These ratings make Yakushev a 90 OVR, which I think is fair as if players start getting 99 rating, they become absurdly good.

 

[VanIslander]

Wayne Babych

Overall: 91-92 (the only scoring line 2nd team all-star forward)

Speed: 87
Acceleration: 89
Agility: 92
Deke: 86
Balance: 94
Puck Control: 90
Endurance: 87
Face Offs: 66
Passing: 84
Slap Shot Power: 90
Slap Shot Accuracy: 90
Wrist Shot Power: 90
Wrist Shot Accuracy: 90
Hero Rating ("Clutch"): 95 (as the only top-6 2nd all-star he ought to be)
Aggressiveness: 95 (+5 over Gionta in this regard, "gritty")
Checking: 89 (+15 over Gionta in this regard)
Toughness: 90 (+15 over Gionta in this regard)
Resist Penalties: 75
Resist Injuries: 80 (missed games each season)
Potential: 88
Prestige (out of 15): 12
Shoot-Pass (out of 15): 10
Pass-Carry (out of 15): 13
Defense-Offense (out of 15): 13

 

[VanIslander]

These ratings make Yakushev a 90 OVR, which I think is fair as if players start getting 99 rating, they become absurdly good.

The 1st team all-star is to be the HIGHEST OV center and top-2 OV scoring line forward, so he should be a 95 OV.

Yakushev adjusted (what is his OV now?):

Speed: 90 +5=95
Acceleration: 85+3=88
Agility: 85
Deke: 85
Balance: 90
Puck Control: 95
Endurance: 99 (the Soviets are legendary with their training and fitness regime)
Face Offs: 99 (the best given he's the only 1st team all-star center)
Passing: 90
Slap Shot Power: 85
Slap Shot Accuracy: 85
Wrist Shot Power: 85
Wrist Shot Accuracy: 85
Hero Rating ("Clutch"): 95+2=97
Aggressiveness: 85+3=88
Checking: 89 (expected of Soviet centers, but 90s should be reserved for bottom-6 guys)
Toughness: 85
Resist Penalties: 90
Resist Injuries: 99 (the guy played for 20 years)
Potential: 90
Prestige (out of 15): 15
Shoot-Pass (out of 15): 12
Pass-Carry (out of 15): 14 (expected of Soviet pivots, centered top Soviet line for years)
Defense-Offense (out of 15): 12 +1=13

 

[VanIslander]

Yakushev and Gionta should have 95 OV
Babych 92 OV

non-all-star top-6 forwards no higher than 89 OV and most second liners no higher than 84 OV

 

[VanIslander]

Defense-Offense (out of 15): 12 (IS THIS CATEGORY ABOUT TWO-WAY PLAY?)

I think it's about how quickly the player will move towards defensive or offensive roles (for example, Semin is a 12 and Madden is a 6 on the default ratings).

The transition game then! from defense TO offense. Semin is good at capitalizing on turnovers and creating offensive opportunities out of them whereas Madden is not.

 

[VanIslander]

Bottom-6 1st team all-star forwards John Marks, Ron Schock, Mike Knuble to be done next.

(Could someone else do the all-star goalies?)

The sooner we get the all-star standards, we can adjust others accordingly.

 

[VanIslander]

Mike Knuble

Overall: 95

Speed: 83
Acceleration: 85
Agility: 85
Deke: 87
Balance: 97
Puck Control: 88
Endurance: 99 (many times top-3 in games played)
Face Offs: 71
Passing: 85
Slap Shot Power: 87
Slap Shot Accuracy: 89
Wrist Shot Power: 97
Wrist Shot Accuracy: 97
Hero Rating ("Clutch"): 96 (the most offensively talented of the all-star bottom-6ers)
Aggressiveness: 95
Checking: 94
Toughness: 95
Resist Penalties: 80
Resist Injuries: 99
Potential: 90
Prestige (out of 15): 13
Shoot-Pass (out of 15): 13
Pass-Carry (out of 15): 11
Defense-Offense (out of 15): 12

 

[Hedberg]

(Could someone else do the all-star goalies?)

Holmqvist:

Speed: 95
Recovery: 91
Agility: 95
Breakaways: 94
Five-Hole: 92
Rebound: 93
Endurance: 95
Passing: 82
Glove High: 96
Glove Low: 93
Stick High: 97
Stick Low: 94
Poke Check: 95
Toughness: 90
Intensity: 96

94 Overall

Guy Hebert
Speed: 91
Recovery: 91
Agility: 91
Breakaways: 95
Five-Hole: 92
Rebound: 92
Endurance: 93
Passing: 81
Glove High: 97
Glove Low: 91
Stick High: 98
Stick Low: 92
Poke Check: 92
Toughness: 86
Intensity: 92

92 Overall

 

[Hedberg]

Overall: 95

Speed: 83
Acceleration: 85
Agility: 85
Deke: 87
Balance: 97
Puck Control: 88
Endurance: 99 (many times top-3 in games played)
Face Offs: 71
Passing: 85
Slap Shot Power: 87
Slap Shot Accuracy: 89
Wrist Shot Power: 97
Wrist Shot Accuracy: 97
Hero Rating ("Clutch"): 96 (the most offensively talented of the all-star bottom-6ers)
Aggressiveness: 95
Checking: 94
Toughness: 95
Resist Penalties: 80
Resist Injuries: 99
Potential: 90
Prestige (out of 15): 13
Shoot-Pass (out of 15): 13
Pass-Carry (out of 15): 11
Defense-Offense (out of 15): 12

Those ratings are pretty similar to Knuble's in game ratings.

That adds up to a 90 ovr, which is probably better for the sim (there is no 95 player in the default roster, highest is 93). Also, I was wrong about prestige, it's out of 100.

 

[VanIslander]

John Marks

Overall: 93 (all 1st team all-stars should have 92-93 ov and non of the non-all-stars over 89)

Speed: 85
Acceleration: 89
Agility: 92
Deke: 87
Balance: 94
Puck Control: 90
Endurance: 99
Face Offs: 66
Passing: 89
Slap Shot Power: 85
Slap Shot Accuracy: 85
Wrist Shot Power: 94
Wrist Shot Accuracy: 94
Hero Rating ("Clutch"): 94
Aggressiveness: 95
Checking: 96
Toughness: 92
Resist Penalties: 90
Resist Injuries: 98
Potential: 90
Prestige (out of 15): 13
Shoot-Pass (out of 15): 13
Pass-Carry (out of 15): 13
Defense-Offense (out of 15): 15 (excellent forechecking)

 

[VanIslander]

Ron Schock

Overall: 93 (all 1st team all-stars should have 92-93 ov and non of the non-all-stars over 89)

Speed: 85
Acceleration: 89
Agility: 92
Deke: 87
Balance: 94
Puck Control: 95 (better puck control than Marks)
Endurance: 99
Face Offs: 66
Passing: 94 (better passing than Marks)
Slap Shot Power: 85
Slap Shot Accuracy: 85
Wrist Shot Power: 90
Wrist Shot Accuracy: 90
Hero Rating ("Clutch"): 94
Aggressiveness: 90
Checking: 98 (elite penalty killing ability as a bottom-6 all-star)
Toughness: 92
Resist Penalties: 90
Resist Injuries: 90
Potential: 90
Prestige (out of 15): 13
Shoot-Pass (out of 15): 13
Pass-Carry (out of 15): 13
Defense-Offense (out of 15): 13 (more of a regular shift scorer, forechecking not as much his bread and butter as it is with Marks)

 

[VanIslander]

Billy Breen

Overall: 91-92 (2nd team all-star)

Speed: 87
Acceleration: 89
Agility: 97 ("nimble")
Deke: 94 ("nimble")
Balance: 94
Puck Control: 92
Endurance: 95
Face Offs: 99
Passing: 84
Slap Shot Power: 88
Slap Shot Accuracy: 88
Wrist Shot Power: 93
Wrist Shot Accuracy: 93
Hero Rating ("Clutch"): 95
Aggressiveness: 85
Checking: 95
Toughness: 80
Resist Penalties: 95
Resist Injuries: 95
Potential: 95
Prestige (out of 15): 13
Shoot-Pass (out of 15): 12
Pass-Carry (out of 15): 12
Defense-Offense (out of 15): 14

 

[VanIslander]

There. All the all-star forwards have ratings. We can tweak them to have them in the 91-93 OV range.

GMs can start rating their non-all-star forwards accordingly, with OVs no greater than 89 OV (first line regualr standard 85-89 ov, 2nd line standard 81-84 ov). The most inmportant thing is to focus on strengths and nonstrengths, weaknesses, the RELATIVE abilities of each player.

 

[seventieslord]

I think it's about how quickly the player will move towards defensive or offensive roles (for example, Semin is a 12 and Madden is a 6 on the default ratings).

It's a bias rating, just like the pass/shoot and pass/carry. So a 1 will play extremely conservatively, will be the first guy back, etc. A 15 will be the first guy out, will rarely backcheck and will pretty much be a cherrypicker.

 

[seventieslord]

so yeah, based on these ratings, the shoot/pass, pass/carry, and offense/defense ratings will all need to be redone because it looks like they were interpreted as skills ratings but they are behavior bias indicators.

Defense-Offense (out of 15): 15 (excellent forechecking)

this version of John Marks would rarely cross his own blueline in the simulation. that's not what we want, at all. We should have our players run the gamut from 1 to 15 in all these categories to have better real life situations.

Also, "checking" is how hard and effective their bodychecking is. Defensive ability is captured in the offense/defense bias rating. "toughness" is for fighting. "aggressiveness" is either for how often the player will hit, or how doggedly they pursue the puck carrier (or both). "endurance" is how quickly the player tires out. Generally a better player who can handle more minutes will have a better endurance rating.

So a guy like Schock will need to have his checking rating revamped, big time, as he was fairly gentlemanly, more of a "smart" defensive player than anything.

Also, I doubt he's a 13 in pass/carry, a playmaker like him should at least be middle of the scale.

Lastly, these ratings don't seem to really highlight the weaknesses and unknowns of certain players. If everyone is a minimum of 85 in practically everything, then these are just automatons and will be boring to watch. You should be able to see a few players visibly faster/slower than the rest, and who check better and more often. Having an unofficial 85 minimum in all skills won't achieve this. For example, a "nimble" stickhandling star won't be noticeably better in the simulation than Schock when he's 94 and 97 in agility and deking, to Schock's 92 and 87. And no one will get any penalties at all if everyone's a 90 or higher at resisting them. Put some real variance into this! Don't be scared to use the 50s and 60s.

What I found worked for me last time was to do up a quick spreadsheet and evaluate each skill one by one, that way I could say "ok, these guys are the fastest, I'll give them a 99, these three guys get a 90, these guys I don't know for sure so they're average (70), this guy was a plodding skater, I'll give him 60," etc.

I do agree that these players should be graded relative to the AA standard though. So it's ok having a few at 90 overall even if they'd be 75 overall on a reworked MLD scale.

 

[VanIslander]

If everyone is a minimum of 85 in practically everything, then these are just automatons and will be boring to watch. You should be able to see a few players visibly faster/slower than the rest, and who check better and more often. Having an unofficial 85 minimum in all skills won't achieve this.

Who said 85 minimum???? The ALL-STARS ought to have such lofty ratings. The rest of the league can have less.

Put some real variance into this! Don't be scared to use the 50s and 60s.

Not for 1st tram all-stars. No way.

I do agree that these players should be graded relative to the AA standard though. So it's ok having a few at 90 overall even if they'd be 75 overall on a reworked MLD scale.

Exactly. There ability and performance is relative to competition level. Gionta for instance is an all-star at this level of competition, the premier top-6 winger. Schock and Marks are the premier bottom-6 role guys.

 

[VanIslander]

I took the time to look at the bios for each all-star forward and carefully went through the ratings accordingly.

Could someobody do that for the all-star defensemen? The 1st all-stars with highest ratings and 2nd all-stars not far behind? No 50s or 60s for them unless known to have glaring weakness.

The sooner we have all the all-stars done, the sooner we have a benchmark to rank the others by.

(I am gone until tomorrow.)

 

[seventieslord]

Who said 85 minimum???? The ALL-STARS ought to have such lofty ratings. The rest of the league can have less.

No one said there was an 85 minimum, but it looks like there is, the way these ratings were done. The only time you got "adventurous" was when you docked Marks in faceoffs because he's not a center.

Every player has strengths and weaknesses, they also have unknowns. The top line players have stronger strengths and less weaknesses than the bottom line players and their overall ratings should turn out better (and if they don't we can manipulate afterwards) but it's absolutely ridiculous to rate them as though they are all among the best in the league at everything.

Not for 1st tram all-stars. No way.

Why not? Are they perfect? Is Billy Breen in the 85th percentile in checking and toughness?

 

[Hedberg]

I've put the players on to teams in the databases.

The all-star grinders definitely shouldn't have overalls >90 (other than Knuble, above >85).

 

[Hedberg]

Also, are all six teams in the playoffs or are we only voting 4 in? Shouldn't we determine the participants before we start rating the players to save the time of doing the two unused teams?

 

[seventieslord]

hold on, the logistics of this still need to be discussed more. Here's another example: Ron Schock is 85, 85, 90, 90 in his shooting skills. Billy Breen is 88, 88, 93, 93. Is Breen really only that much better a shooter/goalscorer? Breen was possibly one of the best scorers of his time and almost surely the best scorer at this level. In terms of goalscoring ability there should be a huge disconnect between the two. Schock's scouting reports even say he's not a great goalscorer, and his stats agree. He should be an average shooter, at best, with ratings in the 60s. Breen should be high 90s, or, if he stays at 88 and 93, then that should be the AA gold standard and no one else should touch it, to reflect that Breen is indeed the best at scoring goals at this level. Otherwise we simply will not see this in the gameplay. Is anyone listening?