The 2010 All-Time Free Agency Thread (The Undrafteds)

[seventieslord]

But then why didn't you draft Dave Lowry, a more accomplished version of Moreau with no character question marks?

(another guy I had on my longlist)

Are you implying Moreau has character issues, or am I misunderstanding you? Yes, I agree Lowry is a very solid citizen though.

Lowry wasn't a guy on my "longlist" per se, but I thought about him. He was just too "basic". Unless you mean the playoffs specifically, I'm not sure why you'd say Lowry is more "accomplished", he played less per game (13.11 to 14.19 for Moreau), he was a one season captain as opposed to three, killed less penalties, and (if anything can be gleaned from it), had a much worse adjusted +/-. He scored 0.3 esppg, Moreau scored 0.33 but has time for that to decline as well.

 

[MadArcand]

Yes, I meant the huge edge in playoffs.

Wasn't Moreau ran out of town in Edmonton this summer? IIRC I read something about locker room problems revolving around him and Souray.

 

[seventieslord]

Yes, I meant the huge edge in playoffs.

Wasn't Moreau ran out of town in Edmonton this summer? IIRC I read something about locker room problems revolving around him and Souray.

I honestly hadn't heard anything about that. I know Souray's been a problem but I didn't know about Moreau. My first instinct is that if there's a problem involving them, Souray's likely the antagonist. But I could be wrong.

Moreau had an awful season and if he was run out of town, that had a lot to do with it. Also, I wouldn't blame them for thinking he was through after the eye injury.

 

[hfboardsuser]

I can confirm myself that part of the issue behind Moreau's departure was that certain members of the leadership core had become too comfortable. When you're with a team as long as he and a few others have been, that kind of things happens.

However, it mostly had to do with on-ice issues. He was simply too far behind the play and would take an ill-advised offensive zone minor seemingly every game. It doesn't help to have your captain- and top PKer- in the box, especially when it was a stupid play. It's tough for a coach to say to the kids "Hey, you see what that 10+ year NHL vet and your captain did? Don't do that" over and over- or even worse, say nothing at all.

His standard of play has increased this season and I'll never forget the "good" years with Smyth, Smith and Moreau running the room, so it likely means little in an overall context.

 

[seventieslord]

Would think these two former draftee goalies are worth mentioning. Both are included in the Important Non-NHL Goalies section of Total Hockey.

Petr Briza: Second fiddle to Hasek for much of his career, but still managed to be an all-star/top goaltender in the the Czech League, Finnish League and the World Championships. Finished as high as 3rd in Czech Golden Stick voting.

"The only goalie in Czech hockey history to score a goal (1991 versus Steaua Bucharest from Romania)... Romanian goaltender was on ice when goal was scored." - Total Hockey

http://www.hockeygoalies.org/bio/briza.html

http://www.eurohockey.net/players/show_player.cgi?serial=1044


- http://www.azhockey.com/Br.htm

Jimmy Foster: Won 2 Allen Cups in Canada and an Olympic Gold and 2 European Championships for Great Britain.

Considering that Phat Wilson is a HHoFer and a mid round MLD selection for playing on a Allen Cup powerhouse, it stands to reason that Foster is also worthy of consideration.

http://www.greatesthockeylegends.com/2010/02/olympic-hockey-legends-jimmy-foster.html

I think you are right on both counts.

 

[VanIslander]

Tomorrow I have the whole day off and will profile all the undrafted guys I had shortlisted that I thought should have gone in the Double-A Draft.

 

[Kyle McMahon]

Ethan Moreau was a hard-working team-oriented guy by all accounts, up until he was actually given the "C". I have no idea what happened at that point, but the guy was an absolute joke from then on.

One of the two worst captains in Oiler history (only Shayne Corson rivals him). He was the team leader in terms of taking selfish penalties 200 feet from his own net, and very quick to criticize almost every other member of the team in the media. While accepting absolutely no blame himself, despite being the worst player on the ice on numerous occasions. His buddies Horcoff, Staios, Pisani, and Souray were naturally exempt from his critique.

 

[seventieslord]

Ethan Moreau was a hard-working team-oriented guy by all accounts, up until he was actually given the "C". I have no idea what happened at that point, but the guy was an absolute joke from then on.

One of the two worst captains in Oiler history (only Shayne Corson rivals him). He was the team leader in terms of taking selfish penalties 200 feet from his own net, and very quick to criticize almost every other member of the team in the media. While accepting absolutely no blame himself, despite being the worst player on the ice on numerous occasions. His buddies Horcoff, Staios, Pisani, and Souray were naturally exempt from his critique.

did he get a big head?

 

[VanIslander]

Ilya Byakin, the Soviet rearguard who won gold at the 1988 Olympics with 5 points in 8 games, and scored some assists in winning gold at the 1989 and 1990 world championships. He went on to score 10 goals, 19 points and get another gold in the next four world championship tourneys, including Best Defenseman at the 1993 Worlds. He tasted the NHL at age 31, scoring an impressive 28 points in 44 games. Injuries limited the vet to just 13 more NHL games. He returned to Europe and played until age 41, scoring 4 points in 10 playoff games for Minsk in 2004. His career began as the Best Defenseman at the 1983 world junior championships and immediately thereafter began playing in the Soviet league with Spartak. He went on to play in eight Soviet league seasons until the USSR dissolved, scoring 20+ points in four of those 8 seasons. He is 10th all-time in games played among defensemen on the Soviet national team.

He has career and peak accomplishments worthy of the AAA and certainly the AA. I was waiting to see how far the rearguard would drop, not anticipating he'd go right through the floor! He had earned his worth over his 8 years in the 1980s in Soviet international competition however much one may want to discount his 1990s post-Soviet moments of greatness.

 

[VanIslander]

Lucien deBlois, drafted ahead of Bossy because Bossy didn't check enough! implying deBlois did check. He must have seen a lot of penalty kill time because I remember him doing so on several occasions (though I don't have access to such stats). He was a leader with four NHL franchises, captain of the NHL's Winnipeg Jets 1983-84 and alternate captain with three other clubs. He went to the Finals as a sophomore with the Rangers in 1979, scoring a couple of goals in the playoffs, and won the Stanley Cup with Montreal in 1986 in a minor role. He averaged over 25 goals per season in his 5-year peak, a decent 270 points over that stretch. All in all, he scored 525 points in 993 NHL games.

He had a couple of 100+ PIM seasons as a Ranger, with several fights on the scrappy team. Not a fighter, but a team leader. Here he punches Hextall and goes down with a Flyer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3E48CxZOZ7E

Lucien DeBlois was one of the top junior Canadian hockey stars of the mid 1970s so it was no surprise when he was selected eighth overall by the New York Rangers in the 1977 NHL Amateur Draft.

He suited up for 71 games with the Rangers and scored 22 goals and eight assists for a 30-point rookie campaign.

During the 1983-84 season, DeBlois registered his best offensive season in the league, scoring 34 times while assisting on 45 others for a 79-point total in a full 80-game season.

DeBlois joined his fourth NHL team in the fall of 1984, signing with the Montreal Canadiens. He remained there for two seasons and helped the Habs to victory over the Calgary Flames in the 1986 Stanley Cup championship.

DeBlois retired having played in 993 NHL games, scoring 249 goals and 276 assists for 525 points and one Stanley Cup ring.

 

[VanIslander]

Ville Peltonen, the 4-time Olympic medalist, three-time world championship all-star and Finland's all-time leader in points in international play, including several clutch goals, leadership and two-way play. He captained the Finns to the final of the 2004 World Cup where Canada edged them by a single goal. He struggled in the Dead Puck Era NHL, but returned in the new NHL as a fast-skating role player, with 148 points in 382 NHL games.

Skates well, and oozes offensive creativity and puck poise. Owns a wealth of experience at all levels. Is solid at both ends of the ice.

http://forecaster.thehockeynews.com/hockeynews/hockey/player.cgi?1539

All other of the top-85 on the following list have been drafted:

All Time Top Scorers In Best-On-Best Tournaments

Rank | Player | Pos. | Nationality | Career | Tournaments | GP | G | A | Pts | Pim
1| Wayne Gretzky |C|CAN|1981-1998|6|45|20|48|68|12
2| Mats Sundin |C|SWE|1991-2006|6|30|18|20|38|38
3| Teemu Selänne |RW|FIN|1991-2006|6|33|18|17|35|20
4| Sergei Makarov |RW|SOV|1981-1987|3|22|16|15|31|12
5| Brett Hull |RW|USA|1991-2004|5|27|14|17|31|12
6| Mike Modano |C|USA|1991-2006|6|36|8|23|31|16
7| Paul Coffey |D|CAN|1984-1996|4|33|6|25|31|24
8| Vladimir Krutov |LW|SOV|1981-1987|3|22|14|16|30|18
9| Mario Lemieux |C|CAN|1987-2004|3|20|14|15|29|10
10| Saku Koivu |C|FIN|1996-2006|4|24|9|20|29|22
11| Daniel Alfredsson |RW|SWE|1996-2006|5|24|8|18|26|12
12| Mark Messier |C|CAN|1984-1996|4|32|6|20|26|36
13| Jere Lehtinen |LW/RW|FIN|1996-2006|5|28|11|14|25|6
14| Joe Sakic |C|CAN|1996-2006|5|30|12|11|23|12
15| Alexei Kasatonov |D|SOV|1981-1991|4|27|3|19|22|20
16| Jaromir Jagr |RW|CSK/CZE|1991-2006|6|31|8|13|21|16
17| Mike Bossy |RW|CAN|1981-1984|2|15|13|7|20|4
18| Phil Esposito |C|CAN|1972-1976|2|15|11|9|20|15
19| Sergei Fedorov |C|SOV/RUS|1991-2002|4|22|8|12|20|20
20| Nicklas Lidström |D|SWE|1991-2006|6|30|8|12|20|10
21| Ray Bourque |D|CAN|1981-1998|4|30|4|16|20|28
22| Alexander Yakushev |LW|SOV|1972-1974|2|15|12|7|19|6
23| Gilbert Perreault |C|CAN|1972-1981|3|13|8|11|19|4
24| Ville Peltonen |LW|FIN|1996-2006|4|24|8|11|19|14
25| Peter Forsberg |C|SWE|1996-2006|4|18|3|16|19|12
26| Brian Leetch |D|USA|1991-2004|5|29|2|17|19|12
27| John LeClair |LW|USA|1996-2002|3|17|12|6|18|10
28| Alexander Maltsev |C/RW|SOV|1972-1981|4|25|8|10|18|6
29| Igor Larionov |C|SOV/RUS|1981-2002|5|32|6|12|18|26
30| Bobby Hull |LW|CAN|1974-1976|2|15|12|5|17|2
31| Eric Lindros |C|CAN|1991-2002|4|28|9|8|17|28
32| Theoren Fleury |RW|CAN|1991-2002|4|27|6|11|17|28
33| Alexei Yashin |C|RUS|1996-2006|5|29|6|11|17|14
34| Chris Chelios |D|USA|1984-2006|8|47|4|13|17|32
35| Guy Lafleur |RW|CAN|1976-1981|2|14|3|14|17|12
36| Kent Nilsson |C|SWE|1981-1987|3|19|3|14|17|8
37| Viacheslav Fetisov |D|SOV/RUS|1981-1996|3|20|3|14|17|31
38| Keith Tkachuk |LW|USA|1996-2006|5|26|12|4|16|83
39| Alexei Kovalev |RW|RUS|1996-2006|4|23|11|5|16|20
40| Michel Goulet |LW|CAN|1984-1987|2|16|7|9|16|0
41| Bryan Trottier |C|CAN/USA|1981-1984|2|13|5|11|16|14
42| Doug Weight |C|USA|1996-2006|5|28|4|12|16|26
43| Denis Potvin |D|CAN|1976-1981|2|14|3|13|16|28
44| Martin Rucinsky |LW|CSK/CZE|1991-2006|6|29|5|10|15|22
45| Olli Jokinen |C|FIN|2002-2006|3|18|10|4|14|6
46| Bill Guerin |RW|USA|1996-2006|5|28|7|7|14|31
47| Vladimir Vikulov |RW|SOV|1972-1976|3|14|6|8|14|0
48| Valeri Kharlamov |LW|SOV|1972-1974|2|15|5|9|14|20
49| Vladimir Petrov |C|SOV|1972-1974|2|15|4|10|14|14
50| Martin Straka |C|CZE|1996-2006|4|20|4|10|14|6
51| Paul Henderson |RW|CAN|1972-1974|2|15|9|4|13|4
52| Pat LaFontaine |C|USA|1987-1998|4|20|9|4|13|4
53| Kimmo Timonen |D|FIN|1996-2006|5|24|2|11|13|8
54| Pavel Bure |RW|RUS|1998-2002|2|12|11|1|12|10
55| Sergei Svetlov |RW|SOV|1984-1987|2|12|7|5|12|0
56| Joe Mullen |RW|USA|1984-1991|3|18|6|6|12|2
57| Brent Sutter |C|CAN|1984-1991|3|25|6|6|12|22
58| Sergei Kapustin |LW|SOV|1974-1981|3|16|5|7|12|12
59| Jeremy Roenick |C|USA|1991-2002|3|18|5|7|12|12
60| Vladimir Shadrin |C|SOV|1972-1974|2|16|4|8|12|11
61| Mats Näslund |LW|SWE|1984-1991|3|20|4|8|12|8
62| Tony Amonte |RW|USA|1996-2004|4|22|4|8|12|10
63| Pavel Datsyuk |C|RUS|2002-2006|3|18|3|9|12|10
64| Ed Olczyk |C|USA|1984-1991|3|19|2|10|12|12
65| Anders Hedberg |RW|SWE|1976-1981|2|10|7|4|11|4
66| Viktor Zhluktov |C|SOV|1976-1981|2|12|7|4|11|4
67| Boris Mikhailov |RW|SOV|1972-1974|2|15|7|4|11|9
68| Thomas Steen |C|SWE|1981-1991|3|17|7|4|11|17
69| Brendan Shanahan |LW|CAN|1991-2002|4|27|7|4|11|14
70| Steve Larmer |RW|CAN|1991|1|8|6|5|11|4
71| Marian Hossa |RW|SVK|2004-2006|2|10|6|5|11|6
72| Sergei Shepelev |C|SOV|1981-1984|2|11|6|5|11|4
73| Fredrik Modin |LW|SWE|2004-2006|2|12|6|5|11|8
74| Milan Novy |C|CSK|1976-1981|2|13|6|5|11|9
75| Dale Hawerchuk |C|CAN|1987-1991|2|17|6|5|11|0
76| Marcel Dionne |C|CAN|1972-1981|3|13|5|6|11|8
77| Rick Middleton |RW|CAN|1981-1984|2|14|5|6|11|0
78| Anatoli Semenov |C|SOV|1984-1987|2|15|5|6|11|4
79| Steve Yzerman |C|CAN|1984-2002|4|22|5|6|11|12
80| Jari Kurri |C/RW|FIN|1981-1998|5|26|5|6|11|13
81| Valeri Vasiliev |D|SOV|1972-1981|4|23|4|7|11|23
82| Teppo Numminen |D|FIN|1987-2006|7|36|4|7|11|8
83| Sergei Gonchar |D|RUS|1996-2006|5|28|3|8|11|18
84| Valeri Kamensky |LW|SOV/RUS|1987-1998|2|15|7|3|10|6
85| Jarome Iginla |RW|CAN|2002-2006|3|18|7|3|10|6

 

[VanIslander]

Michel Larocque, the four-time Vezina co-winner as an often-played backup in Montreal, with only 48 losses in 241 starts for les Canadiens over 8 seasons, an impressive record even if backstopping a dynasty team. One cannot discount that entirely without knocking Dryden as well. Larocque always had 20+ starts a season, finished top-10 in NHL wins three times, and five times was top-10 in goals against, leading the league in 1976-77. He still holds today an all-time accolade: the Montreal record for longest unbeaten streak at 22 games.

Yes, he struggled later in his career when he was traded to Toronto, but in his defense it was his 10th pro season, playing the lion's share of games as the starter for the basement-dwelling awful Maple Leafs. He was an AHL all-star before Montreal and a two-time juniors all-star. There is good reason to believe he could have played well on lesser NHL teams than the Habs in his prime, though indeed there's a small question mark regarding this given his later career play. Nevertheless, he certainly could hold his own as a backup at the AAA or AA level (He twice was the back up on MLD championship squads). In fact, he is arguably one of the greatest backups in hockey history, given how hard it is to mentally prepare each game for that role and given how he was a much played successful backup, not just a bench rider.

Selected sixth overall by the Canadiens in the 1972 Amateur Draft, the 20-year-old spent his first professional campaign with the AHL’s Nova Scotia Voyageurs, posting a 2.50 goals-against average while appearing in 47 regular season games. Larocque split the Harry “Hap” Holmes Memorial Award, given to the AHL’s stingiest goaltending duo, with stablemate Michel Deguise, setting the tone for the rest of his career.

The 1973-74 campaign was one of opportunity for netminders in the Montreal organization. Incumbent starting goaltender Ken Dryden had decided to sit out the year so there was room at the top. Larocque spent his rookie NHL season as one of three men charged with backstopping the Habs, battling to prove himself in Montreal.

Despite dividing the work with more experienced men, Larocque played in 27 games and showed enough promise that he got the nod in all six playoff outings that year.

Dryden’s return the next season relegated Larocque to back-up status, a role to which he willingly dedicated himself. Though he could have seen much more ice time elsewhere, he never complained about his situation and practiced for every game as if he was going to get the call. When the team did need him, usually 25 to 30 times per season, Larocque was more than up to the task.

In the five years he relieved Dryden, Larocque started 137 games, winning 89 while losing only 18. In 1976-77, his 2.09 goals-against average led the NHL. He was unbeatable between November 1977 and April of the next year, going 22 games without a loss and setting a team record that has yet to be broken.

Popular in the dressing room and with the Forum crowd, the good-natured Larocque happily played a support role on one of hockey’s greatest dynasties, filling a shelf with silverware along the way. Part of four straight Stanley Cup winners, Larocque shone when given a chance, splitting the Vézina Trophy with Dryden from 1977 through 1979.

The end of the Dryden era brought new contenders for the top slot. Larocque was one of three men to backstop the team in 1979-80 and a member of the quartet who did so the following year.

Montreal’s netminders allowed the fewest goals in 1980-81, winning the Vézina again that season. Appearing in 28 games with the team before he was traded to the Maple Leafs, Larocque was one of three Canadiens goalies to share the accolades, officially ending his tenure with the Habs with four Vézina trophies.

Larocque’s eight years with the Canadiens cemented his place among the most dependable goalies to ever suit up in Montreal. He ranks ninth among Habs goaltenders for games played with 231 appearances and only five men have garnered more than his 144 victories.

http://ourhistory.canadiens.com/player/Michel-Larocque

 

[MadArcand]

The only undrafted player on this list of performers on the biggest international stage, (and is high on the list at 24th, where the other 100 have all been drafted):

MOD EDIT: TWO OTHER PLAYERS are undrafted as well...

 

[VanIslander]

Alexander Semak. After the young top center scored 24 points in 24 world junior championship games, winning two golds and a bronze for the USSR, he joined Moscow Dynamo in 1986-87 and averaged 20 goals a season until 1990-91, the last five seasons of Soviet league hockey. He scored a few times in Dynamo games against NHL teams while on tour. More importantly, as a 21 year old he scored 3 goals in the 1987 Canada Cup, including the 6-5 OT winner against Canada in the first of the three-game final series; and he scored twice more in the 1991 Canada Cup, after having just come off of back-to-back impressive world championships with a gold and bronze, all-star and Top Forward award, and 14 points in the two tourneys. He immediately thereafter joined the NHL and scored 37 goals, 79 points in his only full NHL season, injuries limiting him to 174 points in 289 career NHL games. He continued playing hockey in lesser leagues until age 38, and was the IHL's playoff MVP in 1998 with 27 points in 22 games.

He is a worthy AA draft top-6 role pivot and arguably a decent AAA extra skater.

Alexander Semak began his hockey career in 1982 with the Ufa Salavat of the USSR. He played there for four seasons while also representing his country in the World Junior Championships winning gold in 1984, a bronze the next year, and gold once again in '86.

Semak spent the next five and a half seasons playing for the Moscow Dynamo and once again represented his country in countless tournaments such as Rendezvous '87, World and European Championships, the Canada Cup, and NHL-Soviet Super Series, collecting several medals and championships along the way.

After being selected by the New Jersey Devils in the 1988 Entry Draft, he made it to North America for the 1991-92 season where he played in 25 games. In his first full season with the team, 1992-93, Semak enjoyed a career year scoring 37 goals, 42 assists and collecting 79 points. He spent the next season and a half as a Devils before being traded to the Tampa Bay Lightning in 1995. Before the beginning of the next season, Semak was traded once again, this time to the New York Islanders, where he spent just one season.

The Vancouver Canucks claimed Semak in the Waiver Draft of 1996 but spent only 18 games with them before joining the Syracuse Crunch of the AHL for 23 games and then finishing the season with the IHL's Las Vegas Thunder. He joined the Chicago Wolves of the IHL for the 1997-98 season where he found his scoring touch once again, collecting 61 points in 67 games while winning the "Bud" Poile trophy as the playoff MVP with 27 points in only 22 playoff games.

The 1998-99 season saw Semak play with the AHL's Albany River Rats before leaving North American hockey to play in Germany for his last season as a player.

http://www.legendsofhockey.net/LegendsOfHockey/jsp/SearchPlayer.jsp?player=11474

 

[VanIslander]

TWO OTHERS are undrafted as well...

Fixed. Changed to: "All other of the top-85 on the following list have been drafted".

Peltonen is 24th among moderns in career games at the highest level of international play.

 

[VanIslander]

coach Vsevolod Bobrov - he coached the USSR in the 1972 Summit Series and then led them to the World Championship in 1974 and 1975.

Joe Cirella - scored GWG in 1984 NHL all-star game, 828 NHL games, 275 points, 6-straight 100+ PIM seasons, 1242 goals on ice against.

Brendan Witt - $3 million a year defensive defenseman led league in hits once, usually top-10, also blocked a lot of shots and used his size well in his own end, logged heavy minutes at his peak.

Tim Watters - "played in 2 Olympics and well over 700 NHL games, quietly playing a solid though unspectacular role from 1981 through 1995 with the Winnipeg Jets and Los Angeles Kings, two teams that didn't enjoy much success or fanfare. Not having the size to out-muscle opponents, Watters learned to be in perfect position and angled shooters out of harm's way. He read the oncoming rushes very well, and thanklessly cut off passing lanes and blocked shots. He learned to tie up players' sticks and was one of the few modern players to master the hip check."

Terry Carkner - "A rough and tumble bit of business,.. defensive ability and toughness.. As a member of the Flyers, Carkner established himself as one of the fearless and toughest players on a team loaded with size. His career year offensively came in 1988-89 when he scored eleven goals and helped the team reach the semi-finals.. helping the miracle Panthers reach the 1996 Stanley Cup finals before losing to Colorado."

Curtis Leschyshyn - 100+ NHL games as a solid defender, won a cup, lots of praise for his all-around good play.

Kārlis SkrastiņÅ¡ - holds NHL record for longest playing streak for a defenseman at 495 games, averaged over 20 minutes per game for 12 seasons, Latvia's top defender in international tourneys.

Michel Petit - played for 10 NHL clubs, scored 328 in 827 NHL games, "a strong physical presence and a penchant for using his stick for purposes beyond scoring goals and blocking shots".

Greg Smith - scored 6 points in the North Stars 1981 Stanley Cup Finals run (I remember liking this guy), 288 points in 829 NHL games, five 100+ PIM seasons, "solid play", traded twice for 1st round picks

Ruslan Salei - underrated rearguard logged 26+ minutes a game in the Ducks '03 Stanley Cup Finals run, a player I often see doing little things right, scored goals in each of the 1998, 2002 and 2010 Olympics for Belarus, has only been injury free in 4 of his 14 NHL seasons.

Jim Johnson - the stay at home defenseman played in 829 games, 1000+ PIMs, four world championships and a Canada Cup.

Randy Moller - respected in his 7 years as a Nordique, he had 225 points in 815 NHL games, ten straight 100+ PIM seasons.

Jon Klemm - two Stanley Cups, a strong +/-, plays a simple game, basically a solid third pairing guy at any level of competition.

Jaroslav Modry - scored 100+ points over a four-year stretch, including an NHL all-star game berth.

 

[seventieslord]

Ilya Byakin, the Soviet rearguard who won gold at the 1988 Olympics with 5 points in 8 games, and scored some assists in winning gold at the 1989 and 1990 world championships. He went on to score 10 goals, 19 points and get another gold in the next four world championship tourneys, including Best Defenseman at the 1993 Worlds. He tasted the NHL at age 31, scoring an impressive 28 points in 44 games. Injuries limited the vet to just 13 more NHL games. He returned to Europe and played until age 41, scoring 4 points in 10 playoff games for Minsk in 2004. His career began as the Best Defenseman at the 1983 world junior championships and immediately thereafter began playing in the Soviet league with Spartak. He went on to play in eight Soviet league seasons until the USSR dissolved, scoring 20+ points in four of those 8 seasons. He is 10th all-time in games played among defensemen on the Soviet national team.

He has career and peak accomplishments worthy of the AAA and certainly the AA. I was waiting to see how far the rearguard would drop, not anticipating he'd go right through the floor! He had earned his worth over his 8 years in the 1980s in Soviet international competition however much one may want to discount his 1990s post-Soviet moments of greatness.

I'm schooled on this one. Byakin is better than Brezhnev. If I could do it over I would take Byakin over Brezhnev. Anad he probably showed enough in the NHL at age 30 to give a glimpse of what he could have looked like in a full career. Exceptional international stats for a defenseman too.

Lucien deBlois, drafted ahead of Bossy because Bossy didn't check enough! implying deBlois did check. He must have seen a lot of penalty kill time because I remember him doing so on several occasions (though I don't have access to such stats). He was a leader with four NHL franchises, captain of the NHL's Winnipeg Jets 1983-84 and alternate captain with three other clubs. He went to the Finals as a sophomore with the Rangers in 1979, scoring a couple of goals in the playoffs, and won the Stanley Cup with Montreal in 1986 in a minor role. He averaged over 25 goals per season in his 5-year peak, a decent 270 points over that stretch. All in all, he scored 525 points in 993 NHL games.

He had a couple of 100+ PIM seasons as a Ranger, with several fights on the scrappy team. Not a fighter, but a team leader. Here he punches Hextall and goes down with a Flyer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3E48CxZOZ7E

I took DeBlois, not sure if you were aware. Are you sticking only to guys not yet mentioned, or also endorsing your favourite picks ZM and I made?

Ville Peltonen, the 4-time Olympic medalist, three-time world championship all-star and Finland's all-time leader in points in international play, including several clutch goals, leadership and two-way play. He captained the Finns to the final of the 2004 World Cup where Canada edged them by a single goal. He struggled in the Dead Puck Era NHL, but returned in the new NHL as a fast-skating role player, with 148 points in 382 NHL games.

http://forecaster.thehockeynews.com/hockeynews/hockey/player.cgi?1539

All other of the top-85 on the following list have been drafted:

Those are impressive NHL numbers, but he was just far too mediocre in the NHL to get consideration. In his best season he was 7th in scoring and top penalty-killing forward for a bad team.

Michel Larocque, the four-time Vezina co-winner as an often-played backup in Montreal, with only 48 losses in 241 starts for les Canadiens over 8 seasons, an impressive record even if backstopping a dynasty team. One cannot discount that entirely without knocking Dryden as well. Larocque always had 20+ starts a season, finished top-10 in NHL wins three times, and five times was top-10 in goals against, leading the league in 1976-77. He still holds today an all-time accolade: the Montreal record for longest unbeaten streak at 22 games.

Yes, he struggled later in his career when he was traded to Toronto, but in his defense it was his 10th pro season, playing the lion's share of games as the starter for the basement-dwelling awful Maple Leafs. He was an AHL all-star before Montreal and a two-time juniors all-star. There is good reason to believe he could have played well on lesser NHL teams than the Habs in his prime, though indeed there's a small question mark regarding this given his later career play. Nevertheless, he certainly could hold his own as a backup at the AAA or AA level (He twice was the back up on MLD championship squads). In fact, he is arguably one of the greatest backups in hockey history, given how hard it is to mentally prepare each game for that role and given how he was a much played successful backup, not just a bench rider.


http://ourhistory.canadiens.com/player/Michel-Larocque

I'm not sure what Laroque ever did that was noteworth, unless it just really bugs you to see a guy with Vezinas next to his name left unselected (and I know how that feels, as it bugged me seeing Ylonen, Marjamaki, and some multiple-season captains unselected)

The thing about backups is, they are backups for a reason.

Larocque was never among the ten most-used goalies in the league (although in that Leafs season he must have been close) - he had six seasons with at least 1500 minutes (the cutoff I use for qualifying for sv% rankings, a rather liberal cutoff, I might add) - and he was 4th in sv% once and 10th once.

When he was 4th, it was 1977 and Dryden outperformed him, .920 to .910. When he was 10th, it was 1978 and Dryden outperformed him, .921 to .896.

There are a number of modern goalies who have been much more utilized in their careers, and had much better puck-stopping numbers too, or a combination of both.

Alexander Semak. After the young top center scored 24 points in 24 world junior championship games, winning two golds and a bronze for the USSR, he joined Moscow Dynamo in 1986-87 and averaged 20 goals a season until 1990-91, the last five seasons of Soviet league hockey. He scored a few times in Dynamo games against NHL teams while on tour. More importantly, as a 21 year old he scored 3 goals in the 1987 Canada Cup, including the 6-5 OT winner against Canada in the first of the three-game final series; and he scored twice more in the 1991 Canada Cup, after having just come off of back-to-back impressive world championships with a gold and bronze, all-star and Top Forward award, and 14 points in the two tourneys. He immediately thereafter joined the NHL and scored 37 goals, 79 points in his only full NHL season, injuries limiting him to 174 points in 289 career NHL games. He continued playing hockey in lesser leagues until age 38, and was the IHL's playoff MVP in 1998 with 27 points in 22 games.

He is a worthy AA draft top-6 role pivot and arguably a decent AAA extra skater.


http://www.legendsofhockey.net/LegendsOfHockey/jsp/SearchPlayer.jsp?player=11474

When he had 79 points, it was 1993 and he was 53rd in the NHL. And he never once came within 40 points of that again. With 174 points in 289 NHL games played between age 25 and 30 (generally a player's best years), I'm not sure we have enough to declare him one of the best guys left. Even if he played twice as many NHL games, adding some before 25 or after 30, and maintained that level of production, that's still 348 points in 578 games. As a center, there's no way he could be a worthy selection with those as his career figures. As a winger, yes, possibly, if he brought something in the way of toughness or defense, but he was rarely used as a penalty killer and was not a banger.

What's more, his international career isn't that special from an individual standpoint - 31 points in 57 games, from a guy who was just there for offense.

 

[seventieslord]

coach Vsevolod Bobrov - he coached the USSR in the 1972 Summit Series and then led them to the World Championship in 1974 and 1975.

Decent. I just can't get over what his mentality was as a player, how could he parlay that into being a good coach? Did he just take over where Tarasov left off? I wish we knew more about his coaching.

Joe Cirella - scored GWG in 1984 NHL all-star game, 828 NHL games, 275 points, 6-straight 100+ PIM seasons, 1242 goals on ice against.

I'm not sure what a GWG in an ASG is worth, but I guess it's good that he was there. He was a very well used defenseman for those poor Jersey teams. Was decent offensively and tough. He was not that far off from a selection in my mock draft.

Brendan Witt - $3 million a year defensive defenseman led league in hits once, usually top-10, also blocked a lot of shots and used his size well in his own end, logged heavy minutes at his peak.

Scrub. 21 minutes is not "heavy" and he only got that many because he was on a bad team.

Tim Watters - "played in 2 Olympics and well over 700 NHL games, quietly playing a solid though unspectacular role from 1981 through 1995 with the Winnipeg Jets and Los Angeles Kings, two teams that didn't enjoy much success or fanfare. Not having the size to out-muscle opponents, Watters learned to be in perfect position and angled shooters out of harm's way. He read the oncoming rushes very well, and thanklessly cut off passing lanes and blocked shots. He learned to tie up players' sticks and was one of the few modern players to master the hip check."

In the Cirella pool of defensemen. Was close to a mock draft selection. Didn't quite stand out but was quietly effective.

Terry Carkner - "A rough and tumble bit of business,.. defensive ability and toughness.. As a member of the Flyers, Carkner established himself as one of the fearless and toughest players on a team loaded with size. His career year offensively came in 1988-89 when he scored eleven goals and helped the team reach the semi-finals.. helping the miracle Panthers reach the 1996 Stanley Cup finals before losing to Colorado."

Was extremely close to selection. Elite toughness for this level.

Curtis Leschyshyn - 100+ NHL games as a solid defender, won a cup, lots of praise for his all-around good play.

Fits right in with Watters. Bonus for winning a cup as a #5 defenseman.

Kārlis SkrastiņÅ¡ - holds NHL record for longest playing streak for a defenseman at 495 games, averaged over 20 minutes per game for 12 seasons, Latvia's top defender in international tourneys.

I love him for his shot blocking and ironman-ness, and tried so hard to find room. I couldn't.

Michel Petit - played for 10 NHL clubs, scored 328 in 827 NHL games, "a strong physical presence and a penchant for using his stick for purposes beyond scoring goals and blocking shots".

Fool's gold. Petit was only heavily relied on when he played on absolutely awful teams.

Greg Smith - scored 6 points in the North Stars 1981 Stanley Cup Finals run (I remember liking this guy), 288 points in 829 NHL games, five 100+ PIM seasons, "solid play", traded twice for 1st round picks

My favourite of all these picks. Smith was agonizingly close to being picked and was actually pencilled into that 100th spot until I decided to make a big deal of it. Still ended up in that top-10 of leftovers. He was heavily relied on by a bad Cleveland team and then settled in as a solid contributor with Minnesota, ultimately working with the Caps and Wings as a stabilizing presence. Good ice time average for such a long career, and actually lasted a very long time for a guy whose career started where it did.

Ruslan Salei - underrated rearguard logged 26+ minutes a game in the Ducks '03 Stanley Cup Finals run, a player I often see doing little things right, scored goals in each of the 1998, 2002 and 2010 Olympics for Belarus, has only been injury free in 4 of his 14 NHL seasons.

Solid selection as well. Was in that final top-10 with Smith and Carkner.

Jim Johnson - the stay at home defenseman played in 829 games, 1000+ PIMs, four world championships and a Canada Cup.

What set him apart?

Randy Moller - respected in his 7 years as a Nordique, he had 225 points in 815 NHL games, ten straight 100+ PIM seasons.

Is there anyone more similar to Carkner? I like Moller, he was also in that final top-10, a pretty well relied upon guy by those strong and unlucky 1980s Nordiques.

Jon Klemm - two Stanley Cups, a strong +/-, plays a simple game, basically a solid third pairing guy at any level of competition.

Scrub. Career bottom-pairing NHLer. You mean to tell me he's more worthy than guys who played on 2nd pairings for a decade? 14 minutes a game in the playoffs should tell you all you need to know.

Jaroslav Modry - scored 100+ points over a four-year stretch, including an NHL all-star game berth.

Decent offensive guy, I could see him as a possibility.