Confirmed with Link: TDA trade dead, bought out by Flyers

[Boom Boom Apathy]

My worry with TDA is he’ll be horrendous defensively playing beside anyone not named Slavin, you know just like he’s been basically his entire career.

I get what you are saying, but I think we need to put it in context. He'll (hopefully) be a 3rd pairing guy. We had CDH and Coghlan last year, as well as Brendan Smith and Bear in the past, followed by Ghost in the playoffs. I'm not sure TDA will be worse, but who knows.

 

[ndp]

I get what you are saying, but I think we need to put it in context. He'll (hopefully) be a 3rd pairing guy. We had CDH and Coghlan last year, as well as Brendan Smith and Bear in the past, followed by Ghost in the playoffs. I'm not sure TDA will be worse, but who knows.

I think if there’s a team and system that can make it work it’s the Hurricanes.

The FO obviously believes his point production and power play work are worth the gamble. And they’ve been pretty spot on so far. Home game’s definitely shouldn’t be an issue as far as matchups are concerned. But I could see road matchups getting interesting.

 

[MinJaBen]

I wonder if the hold up with TDA is if he might be part of a return to a team in a trade depending on who we trade with?

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

I'm going to guess that the holdup to the TDA trade is the Karlsson talks. The way that the Canes keep having leverage in trade talks is because they have cap space and can run the current roster with no issues at all, but I'm not sure if the Canes truly want Karlsson or if they see the opportunity to weaken a division rival even further when it comes to young assets and picks (which Pittsburgh is severely lacking). Simultaneously, if the Canes and Sharks somehow agree to an EK trade, that drastically changes the calculus of the blueline. It may well be that the Canes just need a stay-at-home guy (Jones, Holden, or Benoit, perhaps?) to pair with Chatfield for the bottom pair instead.

 

[Unsustainable]

I wonder if the hold up with TDA is if he might be part of a return to a team in a trade depending on who we trade with?

Its a bait and switch trade.

 

[geehaad]

I'm going to guess that the holdup to the TDA trade is the Karlsson talks. The way that the Canes keep having leverage in trade talks is because they have cap space and can run the current roster with no issues at all, but I'm not sure if the Canes truly want Karlsson or if they see the opportunity to weaken a division rival even further when it comes to young assets and picks (which Pittsburgh is severely lacking). Simultaneously, if the Canes and Sharks somehow agree to an EK trade, that drastically changes the calculus of the blueline. It may well be that the Canes just need a stay-at-home guy (Jones, Holden, or Benoit, perhaps?) to pair with Chatfield for the bottom pair instead.

This guy disagrees:

I don't think that EK and TDA are related transactions.

I keep saying it: the EK interest and the TDA interest seems entirely unrelated. I think the Canes clearly are interested in offensive generation across all three pairings. Captain Obvious, yes, but all of these people saying that the TDA deal could be nixed if Karlsson's acquired are clearly either misguided or engaging in wishful thinking (talking about the Twitter twits who still don't like DeAngelo).

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

This guy disagrees:

Sure, but I also now have the hindsight of the fact that no moves have been made since the July 9th deadline outside of Lemieux...so part of me is starting to think this now.

 

[Svechhammer]

Sure, but I also now have the hindsight of the fact that no moves have been made since the July 9th deadline outside of Lemieux...so part of me is starting to think this now.

Yeah this is where I am. Originally, I thought we were just going full MegaZord with having a scoring offensive dman on each defensive line, but the longer this delays, the more I think that EK and TDA are an either/or, and it just makes sense.

Slavin-Karlsson
Orlov-Burns
Skjei-Chatfield

or

Slavin-Burns
Orlov-Chatfield
Skjei-TDA

Really just don't seem much better than the first lines with Chatfield-TDA as the 3rd pair. To the point where its a 'why bother' kind of move, and we don't make too many of those.

 

[AhosDatsyukian]

If the terms had actually been completely agreed on as Don said, this deal would be done already. I'm not convinced it's still going to happen. We'll see but I would put the odds at 50/50, not the close to 100% that has been assumed for weeks now.

 

[FlyingSquirrels]

Yeah this is where I am. Originally, I thought we were just going full MegaZord with having a scoring offensive dman on each defensive line, but the longer this delays, the more I think that EK and TDA are an either/or, and it just makes sense.

Slavin-Karlsson
Orlov-Burns
Skjei-Chatfield

or

Slavin-Burns
Orlov-Chatfield
Skjei-TDA

Really just don't seem much better than the first lines with Chatfield-TDA as the 3rd pair. To the point where its a 'why bother' kind of move, and we don't make too many of those.

One question that I can't seem to get answered in my head: The F.O. is hell bent on trading Pesce before he walks for free at the end of the year. Why not the same reasoning for Skjei? Haven't seen his name mentioned anywhere in the trade rumor mill.

 

[spockBokk]

One question that I can't seem to get answered in my head: The F.O. is hell bent on trading Pesce before he walks for free at the end of the year. Why not the same reasoning for Skjei? Haven't seen his name mentioned anywhere in the trade rumor mill.

Lack of LD on roster or NHL ready LD in the system? That kinda makes sense when you consider that the 2 D they’re rumored to be trying to acquire are both RDs.

 

[Svechhammer]

One question that I can't seem to get answered in my head: The F.O. is hell bent on trading Pesce before he walks for free at the end of the year. Why not the same reasoning for Skjei? Haven't seen his name mentioned anywhere in the trade rumor mill.

It's a good question

I have a gut feeling that we are looking to extend Skjei. Wasn't there a report around the opening of FA that Waddell was in talks with both Aho and Skjei toward an extension? I wouldn't be surprised if his time in the NY market has him believing the grass isn't always greener and he's more willing to stay in a good place than go out on his own again.

I don't get the impression we are ever going to find common ground with Pesce.

 

[SlavinAway]

It's a good question

I have a gut feeling that we are looking to extend Skjei. Wasn't there a report around the opening of FA that Waddell was in talks with both Aho and Skjei toward an extension? I wouldn't be surprised if his time in the NY market has him believing the grass isn't always greener and he's more willing to stay in a good place than go out on his own again.

I don't get the impression we are ever going to find common ground with Pesce.

Trying to extend Skjei doesn't make sense to me. Can he play his offside? We've got Slavin and Orlov for another 2 years and hopefully Nikishin after that.

 

[baconandbread]

It's a good question

I have a gut feeling that we are looking to extend Skjei. Wasn't there a report around the opening of FA that Waddell was in talks with both Aho and Skjei toward an extension? I wouldn't be surprised if his time in the NY market has him believing the grass isn't always greener and he's more willing to stay in a good place than go out on his own again.

I don't get the impression we are ever going to find common ground with Pesce.

It's a good question

I have a gut feeling that we are looking to extend Skjei. Wasn't there a report around the opening of FA that Waddell was in talks with both Aho and Skjei toward an extension? I wouldn't be surprised if his time in the NY market has him believing the grass isn't always greener and he's more willing to stay in a good place than go out on his own again.

I don't get the impression we are ever going to find common ground with Pesce.

 

[cptjeff]

I wonder if San Jose is interested in the same prosecute we're planning to send to Philly? Doesn't seem like any of the names bandied about are big enough for that to become a thing, but you never know.

Or it really could just be as boring as they want to let the guy finish prospect camp before the trade and there's no urgency to it.

 

[AhosDatsyukian]

Lack of LD on roster or NHL ready LD in the system? That kinda makes sense when you consider that the 2 D they’re rumored to be trying to acquire are both RDs.

Huh? We have Slavin and Orlov who are locked in top 4 LD and then Nikishin is the most NHL ready LD across the entire league. Skjei is under-utilized on the 3rd pair and it would make a lot of sense to shop him instead of Pesce.

 

[MinJaBen]

One question that I can't seem to get answered in my head: The F.O. is hell bent on trading Pesce before he walks for free at the end of the year. Why not the same reasoning for Skjei? Haven't seen his name mentioned anywhere in the trade rumor mill.

Maybe it is a market value thing. The market for LD might be soft enough that he is better kept as an "own rental" while the market for RD is strong enough that it makes sense to move Pesce for assets. Also, I'm not sure of the language in their contracts, but is it possible that Skjei's trade clause is a 10 team trade to list vs. a 10 team no trade list, making him harder to move?

 

[spockBokk]

Huh? We have Slavin and Orlov who are locked in top 4 LD and then Nikishin is the most NHL ready LD across the entire league. Skjei is under-utilized on the 3rd pair and it would make a lot of sense to shop him instead of Pesce.

Nikishin is at least 2 years away. No other prospect is close.

If they traded Skjei and kept Pesce as well as acquiring one (if not both) of TDA and Karlsson - they’d have Burns-Pesce-Karlsson/TDA-Chatfield. Potentially 5 NHL RD.

We’ve only seen Chatfield play his off side for a few games. That shouldn’t be a full year solution.

RBA obviously prefers D on their natural side. Keeping Skjei while trading Pesce allows for 3 very strong pairing, all with players on their strong side.

 

[Stickpucker]

Skjei's 5m would be wasted on the 3rd pair.

I'd just as soon trade him for futures and sign Caleb Jones for 1.2m for 2 seasons (when Boom can come over) and use the 3.8m difference at forward.

I think Skjei and Pesce are both gone.

 

[moses malone 12]

It's a good question

I have a gut feeling that we are looking to extend Skjei. Wasn't there a report around the opening of FA that Waddell was in talks with both Aho and Skjei toward an extension? I wouldn't be surprised if his time in the NY market has him believing the grass isn't always greener and he's more willing to stay in a good place than go out on his own again.

I don't get the impression we are ever going to find common ground with Pesce.

your explanation makes the most sense to me. From a production standpoint, most teams would want to extend both Pesce and Skjei understanding that the last 2 years of the deal constitute an overpayment. The Canes' asset management based model is pretty rigid and likely believes these guys are replaceable. I think there is some risk to this strategy, but the Canes are pretty true to their philosophy so 1 or both will go.

Pesce and Skjei played hard minutes and were very productive and solid defensively. They were a big part of the team's identity this past season. I consider Pesce as gone at this point and maybe the Orlov signing signaled the end of Skjei's tenure.

Pretty interesting game of chess going on right now.

 

[Svechhammer]

Skjei's 5m would be wasted on the 3rd pair.

I'd just as soon trade him for futures and sign Caleb Jones for 1.2m for 2 seasons (when Boom can come over) and use the 3.8m difference at forward.

I think Skjei and Pesce are both gone.

It is very odd that Jones hasn't been picked up, yet. You'd think his skill set would be something teams would be trying to grab immediately once he hit the market.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Sure, but I also now have the hindsight of the fact that no moves have been made since the July 9th deadline outside of Lemieux...so part of me is starting to think this now.

If you make enough predictions, particularly ones that oppose your prior prediciton, you can always claim you are right

 

[Daeavorn]

I definitely thought we were going to trade both. It doesn't really make sense to me to keep Brady and get rid of Pesce.

We signed orlov for 2 years, then after that nikishin should be able to come over

Are we gonna force nikishin to play 3rd pair?

Brady is gonna want term.

 

[AhosDatsyukian]

Nikishin is at least 2 years away. No other prospect is close.

If they traded Skjei and kept Pesce as well as acquiring one (if not both) of TDA and Karlsson - they’d have Burns-Pesce-Karlsson/TDA-Chatfield. Potentially 5 NHL RD.

We’ve only seen Chatfield play his off side for a few games. That shouldn’t be a full year solution.

RBA obviously prefers D on their natural side. Keeping Skjei while trading Pesce allows for 3 very strong pairing, all with players on their strong side.

Nikishin is NHL ready, his KHL contract keeps him away for another 2 years but that lines up perfectly with Orlov's contract ending.

On the roster outside of Skjei/Pesce we have 2 top 4 LD and 1 top 4 RD (with that 1 being an ancient Burns). Zero chance of us keeping Pesce AND getting EK so forget that. TDA (if acquired, which he hasn't been yet for a reason) is a 3rd pair guy ultimately. Both the present and future situations at top 4 LD are significantly more set in stone and known than RD.

Keeping Skjei as an own rental is fine if we can't trade him for more scoring help but extending him doesn't make sense and under-utilizing him on the 3rd pair is not ideal either. Keeping Pesce as an own rental makes way more sense as without him we have Burns and nothing else. If we trade for EK Pesce is out but replaced 1 for 1 and there is still reason to move Skjei out, Pesce/EK have no bearing on whether we should move Skjei or not.

 

[WreckingCrew]

Nikishin is NHL ready, his KHL contract keeps him away for another 2 years but that lines up perfectly with Orlov's contract ending.

On the roster outside of Skjei/Pesce we have 2 top 4 LD and 1 top 4 RD (with that 1 being an ancient Burns). Zero chance of us keeping Pesce AND getting EK so forget that. TDA (if acquired, which he hasn't been yet for a reason) is a 3rd pair guy ultimately. Both the present and future situations at top 4 LD are significantly more set in stone and known than RD.

Keeping Skjei as an own rental is fine if we can't trade him for more scoring help but extending him doesn't make sense and under-utilizing him on the 3rd pair is not ideal either. Keeping Pesce as an own rental makes way more sense as without him we have Burns and nothing else. If we trade for EK Pesce is out but replaced 1 for 1 and there is still reason to move Skjei out, Pesce/EK have no bearing on whether we should move Skjei or not.

I can't imagine Skjei being ok with getting 3rd pair minutes much like Pesce wasn't a few years ago when we had Doogie & Faulk. And he has no incentive to sign a contract bc with Orlov->Nikishin he KNOWS he's not going to get the money or term he wants. Whether we own-rental him or trade him, I think he's as good as gone after this year no matter what...I think he'll be gone this summer IF we trade for EK OR find a scoring forward but otherwise might be own-rental this season. Trading Pesce though ONLY makes sense to trade IF we're acquiring EK, which is likely why there's so much talk around him instead of Skjei, since we'd also have TDA & Chatfield theoretically and he'd have good value around the league. Pesce's future likely hinges on EK, so until that situation is resolved, that's where all the chatter will be. Skjei will likely be depended on that and what the forward market looks like.

Again though, I'd rather keep Pesce and his defensive ability, especially paired up with Orlov, than go after EK...who could turn into an anchor if he trails off at all or gets injured (again). I know EK & Burns will likely work out differently here than they did in San Jose, because we have Slavin-Orlov to pair them with, which is infinitely better than Ferrari-Pickles or whoever they were using as their 1/2LD. But it ultimately feels like he's more of a luxury than a need, especially when we could really use a scorer or forward upgrade.