Confirmed Trade: [TBL/NYR] R. McDonagh, J. Miller for V. Namestnikov, B. Howden, L. Hajek, 2018 1st, c. 1st/2nd

[VoluntaryDom]

Our deadline went extremely well.

The Nash trade was highway robbery by you guys lol

 

[klingsor]

Hey guys member when the Rangers fans said no way this gets done without Foote and Raddysh? Good days.

No, I forgot.

Please refresh my memory for the gazillinth time.

 

[CupsOverCash]

The Nash trade was highway robbery by you guys lol

Even though I think Nash plays well for Boston I think it was a terrible move by them. I don't see him as that big of a difference maker to the point where they win it all. I think they could have put a little better package together and got the McDonagh trade done. After that nobody is beating that team.

 

[haveandare]

Even though I think Nash plays well for Boston I think it was a terrible move by them. I don't see him as that big of a difference maker to the point where they win it all. I think they could have put a little better package together and got the McDonagh trade done. After that nobody is beating that team.

It's hard to say imo. They probably gave up too much but Nash is real good when he's on and in a good situation. If he thrives where he lands in their lineup he can be a pretty big difference maker.

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

Feel for ranger fans.

Was told Sergachev would be included easily, that Foote wasn't enough. Turns out Foote was too good to be included.

.

Don't feel bad. A lot of fans in general, especially NY are way too full of it. It's good for them to be wrong when they make stupid declarative statements and condescend to people who disagree. Plenty of NYR fans were on the mark and fair in their discussion too. Plenty of fans of other teams were just as wrong and condescending as the worst NYR fans. In short, everyone is an *******

 

[WesMcCauley]

It's hard to say imo. They probably gave up too much but Nash is real good when he's on and in a good situation. If he thrives where he lands in their lineup he can be a pretty big difference maker.

Gorton was smart and dealt Nash and Grabner early. Took advantage of having two of the most wanted wingers on the market.

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

No offense to Rangers fans but you guys suck at evaluating how a player will do with us. Girardi has been good overall this season.

For years NYR fans talked about how Girardi would be much better (Edit: More tolerable, less of a problem) on a lower pair in a different system.

When he was finally gone he was SO depreciated that fans assumed he was completely done. Surprise, surprise, under a new coach who isn't a blithering idiot, put in the right situation and he's playing fine.

 

[haveandare]

For years NYR fans talked about how Girardi would be much better on a lower pair in a different system.

When he was finally gone he was SO depreciated that fans assumed he was completely done. Surprise, surprise, under a new coach who isn't a blithering idiot, put in the right situation and he's playing fine.

he still has the same problems, he's just on the ice way less and in way less important situations so it's not as big an issue

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

he still has the same problems, he's just on the ice way less and in way less important situations so it's not as big an issue

I should mention I haven't gotten to watch really but everyone says he's fine, not good necessarily and I'm sure he still has issues but not the dumpster fire we bore witness to.

 

[haveandare]

I should mention I haven't gotten to watch really but everyone says he's fine, not good necessarily and I'm sure he still has issues but not the dumpster fire we bore witness to.

I can't say I've seen more than a handful of TB games, but by the numbers he still has the same issues with possession and giving up quality scoring chances. IMO thats not all that unusual for a guy who plays light minutes, so it's not quite the disadvantage it was on NYR when he was playing 20 minutes a game.

 

[Gardner McKay]

You were playing him in a top 4 role, no?

We won't be.

A lot of us knew Girardi wasn't 100% done. AV kept playing him as a top pairing defenseman. It was obvious those days were long past him. Glad he is having success for Tampa. He is being used correctly by a coach that knows what he is doing.

 

[JT Kreider]

A lot of us knew Girardi wasn't 100% done. AV kept playing him as a top pairing defenseman. It was obvious those days were long past him. Glad he is having success for Tampa. He is being used correctly by a coach that knows what he is doing.

Girardi at least showed some signs of life during last year's playoffs. I was hoping Staal was BO instead of him.

 

[DRW204]

as a neutral reader

feels like this was a more quantity vs quality package for NYR. Hajek and Howden are both good prospects, but probably around 3-4 on TBL's prospect depth chart (correct me if i am wrong TBL fans....Foote/Sergachev, Raddysh/Katchouk/Somppi?). NYR got an impressive haul for sure, but I thought they might be more enticed by a deal that included only 2-3 futures pieces but of higher quality. JT Miller was kind of a surprise too who is a better producer than Namestnikov and offers the same C/W versatility as him too. NYR did well this TDL with the Nash deal and Grabner deal (did think he could pull a 1st but still a 2nd+KHL prospect).

This should be a very exciting draft for NYR fans with 7 picks in the first 3 rounds. will be fun to see who they pick and track the progress

 

[JT Kreider]

Don't feel bad. A lot of fans in general, especially NY are way too full of it. It's good for them to be wrong when they make stupid declarative statements and condescend to people who disagree. Plenty of NYR fans were on the mark and fair in their discussion too. Plenty of fans of other teams were just as wrong and condescending as the worst NYR fans. In short, everyone is an *******

My asking point for McDonagh was Foote, Howden and Raddysh. Always knew that Sergachev was wildly unrealistic

And I figured Tampas was going to be one of the last picks of the round so I found that to be unappealing.

In the end what we got isn't that far off considering Gorton valued Hajek the most out of anyone in the Lightning prospect pool and the 1st and another potential 1st isn't too far off from Raddysh. At least the pick gives JG some ammo to move up at the draft.

And of course now it's coming out how uncoachable and lazy Miller was and how there was no way JG was committing to him long term.

Either way I would have much preferred to trade Miller elsewhere for more picks and prospects.

I have no interest in Namestnikov whatsoever. I know stats arent everything but I can't help but feel his production is squarely piggybacked off of Stamkos and Kucherov.

As an avid fantasy hockey manager I can also tell you it's no coincidence Johnson was stuck in bottom six purgatory wastelessness and then got bumped to the top line and (not so) magically became one of the best fantasy assets.

 

[DFC]

My asking point for McDonagh was Foote, Howden and Raddysh. Always knew that Sergachev was wildly unrealistic

And I figured Tampas was going to be one of the last picks of the round so I found that to be unappealing.

In the end what we got isn't that far off considering Gorton valued Hajek the most out of anyone in the Lightning prospect pool and the 1st and another potential 1st isn't too far off from Raddysh. At least the pick gives JG some ammo to move up at the draft.

And of course now it's coming out how uncoachable and lazy Miller was and how there was no way JG was committing to him long term.

Either way I would have much preferred to trade Miller elsewhere for more picks and prospects.

I have no interest in Namestnikov whatsoever. I know stats arent everything but I can't help but feel his production is squarely piggybacked off of Stamkos and Kucherov.

As an avid fantasy hockey manager I can also tell you it's no coincidence Johnson was stuck in bottom six purgatory wastelessness and then got bumped to the top line and (not so) magically became one of the best fantasy assets.

Even in hindsight, I feel like a lot of you wanted Foote just because he was #1 on our prospect chart. In reality, I don't think there's a lot of difference between him and Howden, value-wise. Foote was just more valuable to our organization because he plays RHD, where, even with him, we're pretty thin.

In a way I think it became a thing where a lot of NY fans wanted Foote more/less because he's the one we didn't want to give up, so I think there was the assumption that if he's the guy TB wants to keep, he must be the best guy.

He might be. I think a lot of prospect watchers would put Howden over him though. Most of us were making assumptions based on what we know about Yzerman, and it felt really unlikely he'd want to move Foote after spending years and years trying to acquire a good RHD prospect.

With Johnson, it's not really a top-six/bottom-six thing. It's more that he was stuck on a line with Alex Killorn, and those two have the worst chemistry it's possible to come up with among TB Lightning players. Johnson's been creating chances all year. He doesn't have the skills that ensure they go in more often than not, so he's prone to dry spells.

 

[AndreRoy]

As an avid fantasy hockey manager I can also tell you it's no coincidence Johnson was stuck in bottom six purgatory wastelessness and then got bumped to the top line and (not so) magically became one of the best fantasy assets.

You’re wrong about Johnson. Before we put him on the top line with Stamkos we had him on the second line with Point and he was producing there as well, and he was productive in previous years as a top six center with a variety of linemates. Johnson’s thing is he needs to be paired with a good playmaker to get the most out of him - it doesn’t matter if he’s at center or wing and it doesn’t need to be an elite player he’s matched with (he does well with Palat, for instance) but you just can’t put him with a couple of deadweight players and expect him to score by himself. Earlier this season we were running 11 forwards and had him paired with Killorn (whom he’s never had good chemistry with) and whichever forward doubleshifted onto that line - it’s no wonder he wasn’t scoring under those circumstances.

 

[PatriceBergeronFan]

Even though I think Nash plays well for Boston I think it was a terrible move by them. I don't see him as that big of a difference maker to the point where they win it all. I think they could have put a little better package together and got the McDonagh trade done. After that nobody is beating that team.

And what if the Bruins extend Nash 2-3 more seasons? Then it is a terrific trade for Boston.

 

[CupsOverCash]

And what if the Bruins extend Nash 2-3 more seasons? Then it is a terrific trade for Boston.

2-3 years is good. If they sign him to a 5 year deal like a lot of players look for is too long for a guy of his age. Then again if they lose in the playoffs and don’t re-sign him it’s an awful trade.

 

[JT Kreider]

You’re wrong about Johnson. Before we put him on the top line with Stamkos we had him on the second line with Point and he was producing there as well, and he was productive in previous years as a top six center with a variety of linemates. Johnson’s thing is he needs to be paired with a good playmaker to get the most out of him - it doesn’t matter if he’s at center or wing and it doesn’t need to be an elite player he’s matched with (he does well with Palat, for instance) but you just can’t put him with a couple of deadweight players and expect him to score by himself. Earlier this season we were running 11 forwards and had him paired with Killorn (whom he’s never had good chemistry with) and whichever forward doubleshifted onto that line - it’s no wonder he wasn’t scoring under those circumstances.

I was talking about this season.

Tyler Johnson | Tampa Bay Lightning | National Hockey League | Yahoo! Sports

Just look at his game log. There was a pretty big dry spell in late October-late November and then in December when he gets bumped up the lineup you see his point totals start to skyrocket.

Of course I'm purely speaking from a stat watching perspective. But that also does speak volumes about anyone who looks at Namestnikovs (inflated) point totals and thinks he's having a break out season with more untapped offensive potential.

 

[bb_fan]

The Nash trade was highway robbery by you guys lol

do enlighten us, what piece was the robbery part?

 

[DFC]

I was talking about this season.

Tyler Johnson | Tampa Bay Lightning | National Hockey League | Yahoo! Sports

Just look at his game log. There was a pretty big dry spell in late October-late November and then in December when he gets bumped up the lineup you see his point totals start to skyrocket.

Of course I'm purely speaking from a stat watching perspective. But that also does speak volumes about anyone who looks at Namestnikovs (inflated) point totals and thinks he's having a break out season with more untapped offensive potential.

It wasn't really about him getting bumped up the lineup, is what we're saying. It was the specific line he was on, and, even more specifically, playing him with Alex Killorn because they were the odd men out with our top-six thriving. Those two are both such north-south players, operating at drastically different speeds, that it just never comes close to working.

But even then, Johnson was producing chances single-handedly. It took a while for them to start going in.

He's played his last couple of games back in the bottom-six and put up a few points.

I think even more than thriving with a playmaker, Johnson thrives on a line that cycles the puck really well. He uses his speed in tight spaces a lot. So he's great with guys like Palat, Point, Gourde, Kucherov--guys who'll throw the puck to open space, trusting somebody in blue is gonna win a race to it. That was the key to the Triplets line.

 

[God King Fudge]

I was talking about this season.

Tyler Johnson | Tampa Bay Lightning | National Hockey League | Yahoo! Sports

Just look at his game log. There was a pretty big dry spell in late October-late November and then in December when he gets bumped up the lineup you see his point totals start to skyrocket.

Of course I'm purely speaking from a stat watching perspective. But that also does speak volumes about anyone who looks at Namestnikovs (inflated) point totals and thinks he's having a break out season with more untapped offensive potential.

Johnson's increase has a lot more to do with him being moved to wing than it does being moved up in the lineup.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

do enlighten us, what piece was the robbery part?

The entire thing.

 

[Scruffy]

Even though I think Nash plays well for Boston I think it was a terrible move by them. I don't see him as that big of a difference maker to the point where they win it all. I think they could have put a little better package together and got the McDonagh trade done. After that nobody is beating that team.

Everyone seems to be forgetting the part where they took Beleskey's contract off of our hands (albeit 50%). Miser Jacobs is all about not spending extra cash, so that was a big motivator for him. You have to give up assets to move money in a cap league.

I still like this deal, even if Nash is just a rental. 1sts are the price you pay for top players at the deadline. Spooner was replaced by Nash so there's no loss there, and Spooner was going to want a big payday which the Bruins surely weren't going to give him. Lindgren is a decent prospect but he was buried on our prospect depth chart. And a 7th is nothing.

If Nash can get Krejci going and get the 2nd line to be a consistent threat to take some heat off of the Bergeron line, then this trade will be worth it every time.

Getting McDonough would have been nice, but I don't think he's the deciding factor on whether TB or Boston wins the series should they play each other.

 

[haveandare]

Even in hindsight, I feel like a lot of you wanted Foote just because he was #1 on our prospect chart. In reality, I don't think there's a lot of difference between him and Howden, value-wise. Foote was just more valuable to our organization because he plays RHD, where, even with him, we're pretty thin.

In a way I think it became a thing where a lot of NY fans wanted Foote more/less because he's the one we didn't want to give up, so I think there was the assumption that if he's the guy TB wants to keep, he must be the best guy.

He might be. I think a lot of prospect watchers would put Howden over him though. Most of us were making assumptions based on what we know about Yzerman, and it felt really unlikely he'd want to move Foote after spending years and years trying to acquire a good RHD prospect.

With Johnson, it's not really a top-six/bottom-six thing. It's more that he was stuck on a line with Alex Killorn, and those two have the worst chemistry it's possible to come up with among TB Lightning players. Johnson's been creating chances all year. He doesn't have the skills that ensure they go in more often than not, so he's prone to dry spells.

Just speaking for myself, I was hoping for Foote because he seemed to be the best d-man prospect TB had and ideally I wanted to get a guy with a realistic chance at being a top pairing d-man one day. I think Howden is about as good a C prospect as Foote is a D prospect, but with Chytil and Andersson I was hoping for the main piece to be a d-man.

However, if Gorton and the scouts feel than Hajek is as good a bet or better, I'll trust them. They've done good work recently especially with diamond in the rough situations like that, and he said in an interview yesterday that they scouted Hajek heavily before his draft year and wanted him badly but just didn't have the pick necessary to get him. Seems like pretty much everyone agrees he's only improved since then, so that's encouraging. Sounds less like they settled for him and more like they had their eye on him for a long time.

I was real pissed about the Miller inclusion, but now that they're shared a bit more of their rationale behind that, I can live with it. They were going to move him no matter what, which I don't think many people knew or expected at the time. Namestnikov is intriguing. Almost certainly a downgrade scoring wise, but he seems to have hands and vision to an extent that NYR really lacks, and I've heard he's excellent at d-zone exits, which we really, really need. He's also supposedly a really good, highly coachable guy so that'd be good for the kids to be around as NYR tries to infuse a ton of youth in a short timeframe.