Taylor Hall For Adam Larsson V | 4,000+ Posts and Counting!

[I am the Liquor]

If you specifically look at what you're getting, yes, Subban's going to look significantly better in every aspect. But unfortunately there's a salary cap and unfortunately to win a championship, you need to ice an entire hockey team.

Both of these guys are 'proven commodities' in that they can play key minutes. They just have very different strengths.

And I don't think anyone's expecting Larsson to go out and put up 50 points. I do expect him to put up more than the 18 he put up last year and that's a pretty safe bet. But we needed a top defenseman to play effective minutes, not be a fourth forward.

We needed a pp qb offensive dman AND an all situations shut down stud.

We are being hopeful that Larsson is maybe one of those.

That's not near good enough to trade Hall for.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

The nhl isn't all about anything. Every year there is a new flavor that is the right way to win. Although curiously enough, Pittsburgh got by with a stacked top 9 forward group, Kris letang and a tonne of garbage on the back end.

This is why IMO Chia is doing this the right way. We have no lack of skill up front, even the biggest RNH and Eberle detractors should be able to give them their dues as skilled hockey players. Then we add Draisaitl and Puljujarvi in recent drafts and lastly we add the top line power forward that we've been missing for eons in Looch.

Sure Chia would LOVE a guy like Subban or Pietrangelo, etc. but he wasn't able to get it done without gutting the team. We have a good mix of size, grit and skill now. The last piece that we could really use is a #3/4 RHD that can play the PP since we couldn't add a guy with Larsson's defensive abilities and say Tyson Barrie's offensive abilities rolled into one. IMO Chia has done a very good job of building a TEAM that can compete in the skill game (ideally we get that guy on D to really push the offense to max production) or the physical/cycle game. That IMO is the best template to win year after year. Styles change, players change, being a team that can beat you numerous ways IMO is the way to go.

Thanks for the reasoned response. I think we could add that Hall was likely checked out mentally. Only so much losing a competitive person can be expected to endure.

I am not against moving Hall, but the return wasn't acceptable. If you are dead set on making the deal for Larsson, which would be a plan b target at best, and you are dead set on moving Hall, which I believe to be the case here, then you don't care about a fair return.

And that is what this was. Management failtards decides Hall had to go, Lucic would take his spot and you get what you van for him without really trying to hard.

Oh and **** the fans. Never did give a stuff about them, no sense starting to worry about what they think now.

Like it or not that dropped his value around the league. Maybe he could've got us Justin Faulk if he was a PPG player the last 2 years, but he didn't and his play really took a crap the last 2 years at least partially because of the losing. So it's easy to say "OMG you traded away PPG Hall for a non All-Star D!" but the reality is that he wasn't PPG Hall when it was decided to move him.

Eberle doesn't have the value that Hall or RNH has IMO. Chia and Mclellan love center depth and lastly IMO there were other reasons that Hall was on the block. Ultimately Chia decided that it'd be better to deal Hall for Larsson instead of risking losing that deal if we held steadfast for say Larsson + a 2nd. I do not consider Chia a dumb person or a poor hockey man like I did his predecessor, he thought this thing through and felt that this was the play to make after all of the cards had been laid on the table.

If we make the playoffs is that really taking a dump on the fans? Larsson is not 30 years old, he's younger than Hall, signed longer and cheaper. He could have a very solid and lengthy career here.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

We needed a pp qb offensive dman AND an all situations shut down stud.

We are being hopeful that Larsson is maybe one of those.

That's not near good enough to trade Hall for.

I think that Larsson will be the bolded, if Chia thought that he was say Petry 2.0 even if we wanted Hall gone, he wouldn't have pulled the trigger.

Let me ask you this, if we couldn't land any other D then what? Keep Hall and roll with what we have?

 

[I am the Liquor]

Subban is definitely better than Larsson, but we really don't need Larsson to pile up a ton of points either. If all he does is what he did in NJ then that will help us win a lot more games.

It is reasonable to assume he'll get more points here though, but those are gravy.

We said the same things about Fayne. Thing is he hasn't looked like he did in NJ.

And yes we absolutely need more scoring from the back end. Our defense have been one of the worst generators of offense in the league.

As a team we were 26th in GF. There's no high flying offense here.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

We said the same things about Fayne. Thing is he hasn't looked like he did in NJ.

And yes we absolutely need more scoring from the back end. Our defense have been one of the worst generators of offense in the league.

As a team we were 26th in GF. There's no high flying offense here.

It was widely known that Fayne was riding Greene's coattails. Meanwhile many NJ fans think that he was at least Greene's equal last season.

 

[I am the Liquor]

I think that Larsson will be the bolded, if Chia thought that he was say Petry 2.0 even if we wanted Hall gone, he wouldn't have pulled the trigger.

Let me ask you this, if we couldn't land any other D then what? Keep Hall and roll with what we have?

You "think" he will be. That is key.

I think chia failed to address the defense like he needed to. Big time.

This team will be **** on a stick again this year. Of that there is no doubt. We added Adam Larsson to a 29th place team. Let's call Hall/Lucic a wash. You do the math.

We don't know what is or what is not available. What I do know is we have/had several pieces that could be moved for a dman that would fill our needs. We moved the biggest moveable piece for a maybe.

Sorry but where I come from that's not acceptable.

 

[I am the Liquor]

It was widely known that Fayne was riding Greene's coattails. Meanwhile many NJ fans think that he was at least Greene's equal last season.

Well funnily enough it sounds like Larsson was paired with Greene as well.

I wouldn't pay much attention to what Oiler fans say here, why in the world would I put blind faith in NJ fans from HF?

 

[belair]

We needed a pp qb offensive dman AND an all situations shut down stud.

We are being hopeful that Larsson is maybe one of those.

That's not near good enough to trade Hall for.

So what realistic option was available?

Because Adam Larsson wasn't a realistic option unless it was Hall on the table.

 

[FunkyChicken]

4000+ posts later and the " Hall trade didn't return enough" crowd has still yet to offer a single realistic trade scenario where more value would have been aquired despite Chairelli clearly stating that there was nothing better available after an extensive search of the market

Easy. Keep Hall. Sign Demers.

 

[Mr Positive]

Well funnily enough it sounds like Larsson was paired with Greene as well.

I wouldn't pay much attention to what Oiler fans say here, why in the world would I put blind faith in NJ fans from HF?

Fayne and Greene were genuinely great together in that playoff run, but people forget that he stayed two more years in Jersey before coming here. In that time, he was not nearly as good and the Devils were in decline as a whole. The Fayne-Greene pairing also didn't get nearly as buried as the Larsson-Greene pairing was last season, and Larsson still out produced what Fayne was doing. The season before, Greene and Larsson were given a break in terms of zone starts and Larsson scored quite well, at a pace Fayne never did in fact.

 

[Mr Positive]

Easy. Keep Hall. Sign Demers.

sorry, but that is a total fail as our top pairing RHD. Larsson is at least passable, with potential to be much more than that.

 

[sportsdynasty]

Easy. Keep Hall. Sign Demers.

Demers signed with Florida. You are reaching to say he'd want to sign with last place Oilers.

 

[GRadio]

I think everyone really underestimated the value of a good, young defensemen on a sick contract. Like why would anyone ever trade that away? A good defensemen? On a great contract? For several years? Nobody gives those away, those are what successful hockey clubs are built upon. The alternative would be trading lesser pieces for an equivalent d-man with 1 or 2 years left on a contract who would then (after being successful here) command an albatross of a contract. In the salary cap world, Larsson carries more value than most are giving him.

 

[FunkyChicken]

Demers signed with Florida. You are reaching to say he'd want to sign with last place Oilers.

Actually, before he signed in Florida there were several posts stating that he verbally was willing to sign here.

With Larsson, we still don't have a number one defenseman.

So really, it comes down to would you rather have a top four of:

Klefbolm-Larsson
Sekera-XXXX

or

Klefbolm-Demers
Sekera-XXXX
plus Hall

 

[Aerchon]

Actually, before he signed in Florida there were several posts stating that he verbally was willing to sign here.

With Larsson, we still don't have a number one defenseman.

So really, it comes down to would you rather have a top four of:

Klefbolm-Larsson
Sekera-XXXX

or

Klefbolm-Demers
Sekera-XXXX
plus Hall

So you hypothetically include FA signing of Demers based off a rumor but forget to include Lucic who actually signed here.

 

[syz]

We said the same things about Fayne. Thing is he hasn't looked like he did in NJ.

And yes we absolutely need more scoring from the back end. Our defense have been one of the worst generators of offense in the league.

As a team we were 26th in GF. There's no high flying offense here.

Yea, barring major steps forward from some guys on the blue line, the Oilers D is going to continue to limit the forwards of this team. McDavid and Hall were the only two last year who were able to consistently overcome the blue line's inability to make a play in the offensive zone.

Worried that this is going to be another season of watching an entire D corp fail to find a shooting lane, in the rare instance that somebody other than McDavid wins a forecheck and eventually gets the puck back to the point. At least on the PP there's an off chance that having an off-wing Puljujarvi one-timer will actually fill a hole some of the time.

 

[VainGretzky]

You "think" he will be. That is key.

I think chia failed to address the defense like he needed to. Big time.

This team will be **** on a stick again this year. Of that there is no doubt. We added Adam Larsson to a 29th place team. Let's call Hall/Lucic a wash. You do the math.

We don't know what is or what is not available. What I do know is we have/had several pieces that could be moved for a dman that would fill our needs. We moved the biggest moveable piece for a maybe.

Sorry but where I come from that's not acceptable.

It was a bad trade when it happened and I think we will see it's a bad trade in hindsight. And what a lot of posters keep neglecting to realize is how Schneider makes dmen look better then they are. Everyone is now on this hyperbole on how Larsson is a elite stud defensively wait till he gets the reality of being on our defence. And another bad part of this trade is now Chia will never get good value on other trades other GM's see him as a target to underpay. Larsson is not even in the top 10 best defensive dman let alone how poor he is offensively. Still amazes me how some posters think this was a good trade.

 

[cbzblaze]

Actually, before he signed in Florida there were several posts stating that he verbally was willing to sign here.

With Larsson, we still don't have a number one defenseman.

So really, it comes down to would you rather have a top four of:

Klefbolm-Larsson
Sekera-XXXX

or

Klefbolm-Demers
Sekera-XXXX
plus Hall

Putting Demers on the top pairing is no different than just moving Sekera up to play top pair. Neither will succeed in that role. We'd be just spinning our wheels while adding 5million to our cap.

For those suggesting we should of taken the Subban deal, the difference between Subban and Klefbom is not Draisaitl & Pulju. Especially at 9million. It would have crippled the team in so many ways.

Even adding Barrie or Trouba right now would be a bad move in my opinion. Have some faith and patience in the progression of our young players, and if need be, better opportunities for trades will present themselves during the season due to the upcoming expansion draft.

 

[Soundwave]

You "think" he will be. That is key.

I think chia failed to address the defense like he needed to. Big time.

This team will be **** on a stick again this year. Of that there is no doubt. We added Adam Larsson to a 29th place team. Let's call Hall/Lucic a wash. You do the math.

We don't know what is or what is not available. What I do know is we have/had several pieces that could be moved for a dman that would fill our needs. We moved the biggest moveable piece for a maybe.

Sorry but where I come from that's not acceptable.

Well I mean you don't have to watch then if you're so certain about it.

I think you're wrong though. I also think Adam Larsson is better than you think he is and the only reason we finished 29th is because McDavid missed half the season and Klefbom got a freak staph infection that shelved him for 2/3rds of the season.

 

[cbzblaze]

It was a bad trade when it happened and I think we will see it's a bad trade in hindsight. And what a lot of posters keep neglecting to realize is how Schneider makes dmen look better then they are. Everyone is now on this hyperbole on how Larsson is a elite stud defensively wait till he gets the reality of being on our defence. And another bad part of this trade is now Chia will never get good value on other trades other GM's see him as a target to underpay. Larsson is not even in the top 10 best defensive dman let alone how poor he is offensively. Still amazes me how some posters think this was a good trade.

So because of jersey's great defensive system and goalie, we shouldn't acknowledge Larsson as a good shutdown defenceman. Sure, you could say that and it might be true. But you fail to acknowledge that Larsson's poor offensive numbers could be due to jersey having such an inept offence.

You can't have it both ways.

 

[Blue Line Turnover]

Yeah if anyone believes that then I have a hot dog stand for sale on Vancouver Island that is guaranteed to make you rich.

I'm a bit slow... is the joke predicated on the fact that people in Vancouver are notoriously health conscious and would be unlikely to purchase hot dogs?

 

[Bryanbryoil]

Keep it to the subject at hand, not to taking shots at posters.

 

[Spawn]

Putting Demers on the top pairing is no different than just moving Sekera up to play top pair. Neither will succeed in that role. We'd be just spinning our wheels while adding 5million to our cap.

For those suggesting we should of taken the Subban deal, the difference between Subban and Klefbom is not Draisaitl & Pulju. Especially at 9million. It would have crippled the team in so many ways.

Even adding Barrie or Trouba right now would be a bad move in my opinion. Have some faith and patience in the progression of our young players, and if need be, better opportunities for trades will present themselves during the season due to the upcoming expansion draft.

Faith and patience? Sounds exactly what everyone has been saying around here since Gagner and cogliano where teenagers. We traded a proven top line player for a maybe top line dman and we are going to have to cross our fingers and hope that this time it will be different than all the other times we've tried relying on faith and patience in youth.

Boggles my mind people are so okay trading hall for a half measure on the backend and just leaving the defense at that. The worst defense at producing offense in the league boys! Larsson alone doesn't even begin to address that.

 

[LaGu]

You "think" he will be. That is key.

I think chia failed to address the defense like he needed to. Big time.

This team will be **** on a stick again this year. Of that there is no doubt. We added Adam Larsson to a 29th place team. Let's call Hall/Lucic a wash. You do the math.

We don't know what is or what is not available. What I do know is we have/had several pieces that could be moved for a dman that would fill our needs. We moved the biggest moveable piece for a maybe.

Sorry but where I come from that's not acceptable.

Everyone "thinks" in this thread. Some think Demers is a borderline 1st pair D, which I think is wishful thinking, to say the least.

I think that the loss of our best LHD in Klefbom + Draisaitl + Pulj to get Subban is a backwards move. I know this is about "proven vs potential" but those three pieces going to MTL are too significant imo and I think two of them will play huges roles this season. If the ask was actually another significant piece as well ... Then we move into koo koo land. I could bear the loss of two, preferably not a D though, but I'd live with it.

The hole Larsson fills, to the degree he does, is much more significant than the one created by Hall leaving, especially with the addition of Lucic.

In the end I do think this team is a whole lot better than last season. More experience and growth and some good pieces added to the right places. I guess we will see, I have been wrong before.

 

[Spawn]

So because of jersey's great defensive system and goalie, we shouldn't acknowledge Larsson as a good shutdown defenceman. Sure, you could say that and it might be true. But you fail to acknowledge that Larsson's poor offensive numbers could be due to jersey having such an inept offence.

You can't have it both ways.

Sure you can. Larsson went from a team that was great defensively and sucked offensively to a team that sucked both defensively and offensively. The scoring ability of this forward group is wildly overrated. Outside of Eberle no true goal scorers, and aside from mcdavid a heck of a lot of secondary players that need to rely on others for them to produce points.