Tavares vs. Stamkos

[The Macho King]

The guy finished top 10 in the league in Selke voting...my point is you are trying to down play him like he is not a good defender, bad defenders dont get any Selke votes...im curious, because i am having trouble finding an answer on the internet, whats the highest Stamkos has finished in the Selke race? (Serious question)

First - sure they do. Just like bad defenders get Norris votes. For instance, Connor McDavid ended up getting Selke votes last season (finished 16th - including a first place vote). I don't think Stamkos has ever gotten any Selke votes - the narrative has never formed of him being a "two-way" player. Tavares finished with 80 points in voting - the winner had over 1000 (and third place had over 700). Pointing out random votes doesn't mean he's actually a two-way forward, especially when this is voted on by the PHWA.

Edit: For the record, Tavares doesn't need to be a two-way player. He's an elite offensive forward. The narrative around him being more than that is just ridiculous, though.

 

[sebsisles]

First - sure they do. Just like bad defenders get Norris votes. For instance, Connor McDavid ended up getting Selke votes last season (finished 16th - including a first place vote). I don't think Stamkos has ever gotten any Selke votes - the narrative has never formed of him being a "two-way" player. Tavares finished with 80 points in voting - the winner had over 1000 (and third place had over 700). Pointing out random votes doesn't mean he's actually a two-way forward, especially when this is voted on by the PHWA.

Man, you really just cant accept the fact that Tavares is a good defender huh? To be in the discussion of selke you have to be at least a decent defender...I dont think anyone is trying to say Tavares is the best defender in the league here, we are simply stating that he is a good defender and should be viewed as one. You can point out numbers that show how many more votes other players got, it will still not change the fact that Tavares was in the top 10 (8th) and you dont end up in that discussion without being a good defender.

 

[The Macho King]

Man, you really just cant accept the fact that Tavares is a good defender huh? To be in the discussion of selke you have to be at least a decent defender...I dont think anyone is trying to say Tavares is the best defender in the league here, we are simply stating that he is a good defender and should be viewed as one. You can point out numbers that show how many more votes other players got, it will still not change the fact that Tavares was in the top 10 (8th) and you dont end up in that discussion without being a good defender.

And he's not in the discussion. He wasn't a finalist. He wasn't on the "short list". He was put in there by a few random voters, and probably exclusively by Islanders writers.

 

[sebsisles]

And he's not in the discussion. He wasn't a finalist. He wasn't on the "short list". He was put in there by a few random voters, and probably exclusively by Islanders writers.

Lol listen man, I am done arguing with you because your mind is clearly set that Tavares is just overrated and not a good defender. Go watch some Isles games, see who is out there when theres a late lead, see who's out there killing a important penalty and then lets talk again about this. If you think Stamkos is better defensively that's fine...just don't try and play the card that Tavares is not a good defender, because you are wrong.

 

[The Macho King]

Lol listen man, I am done arguing with you because your mind is clearly set that Tavares is just overrated and not a good defender. Go watch some Isles games, see who is out there when theres a late lead, see who's out there killing a important penalty and then lets talk again about this. If you think Stamkos is better defensively that's fine...just don't try and play the card that Tavares is not a good defender, because you are wrong.

Are you bragging about Tavares' defensive usage when the Islanders are one of the worst defensive teams in the league? Edit: Lol and also the worst PK - didn't even know that.

Maybe get a better defender instead of throwing Tavares out there all of the time.

 

[Khomutov]

Stamkos

 

[sebsisles]

Are you bragging about Tavares' defensive usage when the Islanders are one of the worst defensive teams in the league?

Maybe get a better defender instead of throwing Tavares out there all of the time.

Um..not sure where that came from? this is a discussion about Tavares being a good defender or not (Between you and I) so I pointed out the situations in which he is used most. But uh..i guess ill go ahead and relay the message over to Mr. Snow that we need a better defender...the isles being one of the worst defensive teams in the league has very little to do with John Tavares who btw is a plus player on "one of the worst defensive teams in the league"

 

[The Macho King]

Um..not sure where that came from? this is a discussion about Tavares being a good defender or not (Between you and I) so I pointed out the situations in which he is used most. But uh..i guess ill go ahead and relay the message over to Mr. Snow that we need a better defender...the isles being one of the worst defensive teams in the league has very little to do with John Tavares who btw is a plus player on "one of the worst defensive teams in the league"

He's a +3. Despite scoring 40 points.

 

[sebsisles]

He's a +3. Despite scoring 40 points.

Hes a 40 point plus player on a team that ranks at the bottom in defense...you can continue to try and belittle tavares and his defensive game and myself and 99% of all other Islander fans will continue to disagree with you.

 

[Instincts]

Can't decide they're equally good. So voted for who I would prefer to play for Jets. JT will compliment Laine better then SS. But not by any means I think Tavares is better or worse then Stamkos

 

[Sky04]

Tavares is only a good defending "two-way center" when the narrative fits, it's been widely admitted by Islander fans in other years that he's average who could be a lot better. Especially on the turnovers.

But a good hot streak will make him look better than he is in that regard, colors come out when he's colder and fans are actually evaluating his play not just glocking at the points.

 

[LordNeverLose]

He's a +3. Despite scoring 40 points.

Might have something to do with the Isles allowing the most goals in the league. Keep using +/- as a basis for your argument though. I'm sure it's more accurate than the opinion of people who actually watch him.

 

[The Macho King]

Might have something to do with the Isles allowing the most goals in the league. Keep using +/- as a basis for your argument though. I'm sure it's more accurate than the opinion of people who actually watch him.

Lol - you watch him through homer lenses. I could say Stamkos is a selke candidate and the fact that I watch him doesn't make it more true.

I didn't bring up +/-, your boy did. He also brought up about how he's trusted on the PK and in defensive situations - which is why the abysmal PK % and incredibly high GA should count against him.

 

[sparxx87]

Lol - you watch him through homer lenses. I could say Stamkos is a selke candidate and the fact that I watch him doesn't make it more true.

I didn't bring up +/-, your boy did. He also brought up about how he's trusted on the PK and in defensive situations - which is why the abysmal PK % and incredibly high GA should count against him.

Couldn’t it then be said that you watch Stamkos through homer lenses?

What about terrible goaltending? How do you think it looks it they swap Greiss for Vasilevskiy?

In a team game with 6 members aside, it’s often that an individual can do everything right and still receive a minus. One breakdown can create pressure, regardless if the other 4 are doing their job. Also, you’re going to give up shots - you need to limit high danger chances but if your goalie doesn’t make the saves expected of an NHL goalie, it reflects on the numbers of the 5 guys in front of him.

Playing field isn’t exactly level between these two.

 

[CanadienShark]

Tavares

 

[Janne Niinimaa]

Offensively I would say they are about a wash. Slight edge to Tavares for elevating his line-mates play a bit more and not having a Kucherov or St.Louis with him at any point in time.

Tavares' defensive play is actually good for an offensive 1st line centre. Reads the play extremely well, uses his stick well and positions himself well on the PK. Still a good defensive player despite his turnovers or trying to cheat a bit offensively to create a play. Stamkos is average in the D zone while Tavares is above average at least.

Edge to Tavares. In my opinion he has one of the most well rounded skill sets in the NHL.

 

[VoluntaryDom]

the selke vote argument means nothing

Zach hyman has gotten selke votes

 

[IslesBro715]

Lol - you watch him through homer lenses. I could say Stamkos is a selke candidate and the fact that I watch him doesn't make it more true.

I didn't bring up +/-, your boy did. He also brought up about how he's trusted on the PK and in defensive situations - which is why the abysmal PK % and incredibly high GA should count against him.

Yea, homer glasses bro. JT sucks because all Isles fans are homers. Are you mad? you seem mad?

JT is so good at defense it even gets members here frustrated. lol

 

[Janne Niinimaa]

the selke vote argument means nothing

Zach hyman has gotten selke votes

I don't think it's a great argument but lets put it into perspective. He was 8th in voting. Hyman was 25th so I think we can stop comparing them right off the bat. Hyman got a 1st and a 5th place vote. Thats it.

Tavares got:
1 1st, 5 2nd, 2 3rd, 6 4th and 7 5th place votes. Only behind Backstrom and Stone who are unanimously considered good defensive players by roughly 30 points. He was also ahead of Crosby, Staal, O'Rielly and Marchand by about the same amount.

To compare what being 8th place means:
8th in Norris voting = Giordano
8th in Hart voting = Kucherov

It's not the best argument, but it has some merit. I'm only arguing this because I do believe Tavares is a good defensive player and since arguments like the work for other players why shouldn't being trusted on the PK and finishing 8th in Selke voting help Tavares case?

 

[VoluntaryDom]

I don't think it's a great argument but lets put it into perspective. He was 8th in voting. Hyman was 25th so I think we can stop comparing them right off the bat. Hyman got a 1st and a 5th place vote. Thats it.

Tavares got:
1 1st, 5 2nd, 2 3rd, 6 4th and 7 5th place votes. Only behind Backstrom and Stone who are unanimously considered good defensive players by roughly 30 points. He was also ahead of Crosby, Staal, O'Rielly and Marchand by about the same amount.

To compare what being 8th place means:
8th in Norris voting = Giordano
8th in Hart voting = Kucherov

It's not the best argument, but it has some merit. I'm only arguing this because I do believe Tavares is a good defensive player and since arguments like the work for other players why shouldn't being trusted on the PK and finishing 8th in Selke voting help Tavares case?

hyman
had
a
first
place
vote

the voting for these awards especially outside of the top 5 or for such a hard to quantify award as the selke is meaningless

 

[Lights911]

JT

 

[Seanaconda]

Assuming they are both healthy and signed to the same contracts ? I guess stamkos cuz he's scored 60 goals before but otherwise I have them rated around the same spot

 

[Janne Niinimaa]

hyman
had
a
first
place
vote

the voting for these awards especially outside of the top 5 or for such a hard to quantify award as the selke is meaningless

That can be accounted for by a Toronto journalist. Lets say 1 of Tavares' 1st place votes was a NYI journalist. What about the rest?

 

[bathdog]

JT isnt too far removed from finishing 8th in Selke voting i believe...sounds pretty overrated to me

So what?

Tavares got:
1 1st, 5 2nd, 2 3rd, 6 4th and 7 5th place votes. Only behind Backstrom and Stone who are unanimously considered good defensive players by roughly 30 points. He was also ahead of Crosby, Staal, O'Rielly and Marchand by about the same amount.

Both of whom gather extra attention for their offensive games. Backstrom has been getting overrated defensively for some time too, he's better than Tavares though.

 

[Ainec]

man the votes were like 25-5 for Tavares and it's almost tied

I just know prior to the beginning of last season that JT was ahead. Stamkos after his insane goal scoring seasons seemed to have slowed down. Now he's showing that he's still got it. But this is still quite easily Tavares because of what he's had to do his whole career.

But I'll also say that Tavares is no better defensively than Stamkos