Speculation: Tavares Tells Toronto, "I'm YOUR Huckleberry Now". Fans leaguewide mourn.

[Halak Ness Monster]

If he was going to, why wouldn't he have by now?
I guess he's affording the club the opportunity to get the arena debacle settled and see how the season unfolds...but more signs are pointing to him at least considering moving on.

The Lightning re-signed Steven Stamkos like 2 days before he became an UFA.

I wouldn't read too much into JT and the Islanders not having a deal done.

 

[Majorityof1]

The Lightning re-signed Steven Stamkos like 2 days before he became an UFA.

I wouldn't read too much into JT and the Islanders not having a deal done.

As has been pointed out, its different situations. TB was a good team and fit for Stamkos. They were as much of a contender as any team that could afford/need him. They have good wingers to play with, good D and a good goalie situation. He was trying to maximize value but ultimately realized nobody else could/would give him the combination of money (given FL tax breaks), fit, skilled linemates and cup chance as Tampa.

With Tavares on the other hand, NYI are a dumpster fire. They have good D and Tavares. Their starting goalie is a great back-up. Their wingers are 2nd/3rd line centers who he is making look respectable on the first line. They will be hard pressed to sign him to a $10M contract as is, without losing some other young players due for a raise.

So TB was the right fit for Stamkos and he needed to shop around to confirm that. The NYI will lose out on any comparison if Tavares decides to shop. The only thing that would keep him in NYI is loyalty. And you don't shop around for loyalty. You either want to stay, or want to take the best offer. Loyalty might still be a component, and maybe things will turn around with Eberle there. They may still sign him. But its not automatic and that means there is a good chance they don't.

 

[Halak Ness Monster]

As has been pointed out, its different situations. TB was a good team and fit for Stamkos. They were as much of a contender as any team that could afford/need him. They have good wingers to play with, good D and a good goalie situation. He was trying to maximize value but ultimately realized nobody else could/would give him the combination of money (given FL tax breaks), fit, skilled linemates and cup chance as Tampa.

With Tavares on the other hand, NYI are a dumpster fire. They have good D and Tavares. Their starting goalie is a great back-up. Their wingers are 2nd/3rd line centers who he is making look respectable on the first line. They will be hard pressed to sign him to a $10M contract as is, without losing some other young players due for a raise.

So TB was the right fit for Stamkos and he needed to shop around to confirm that. The NYI will lose out on any comparison if Tavares decides to shop. The only thing that would keep him in NYI is loyalty. And you don't shop around for loyalty. You either want to stay, or want to take the best offer. Loyalty might still be a component, and maybe things will turn around with Eberle there. They may still sign him. But its not automatic and that means there is a good chance they don't.

As Blues fans, we want to believe it's different. It's not, though.

If the NYI show him the money, Tavares will remain an Islander.

You question how the Islanders can afford to keep JT and their young talent. Simple. Same way the Lightning kept all of that talent around Stamkos that you spoke of in the same post. Teams find ways to keep top talent.

That includes bringing up cheap, top prospects. The Islanders have plenty of good pieces on the horizon to help John Tavares. This is because they've spent their last 5 first round picks on forwards.

And of course loyalty plays into it. Tavares is the captain of the Islanders. He wants to get PAID, sure, but that is no different than Kane, Toews, McDavid, etc. They just want to get paid their worth. Like said, he'll stay if the offer is to his liking.

The Islanders sure aren't the Lightning of last year but they aren't a dumpster fire if they have Tavares. They can easily contend.

 

[Shwabeal]

The Islanders sure aren't the Lightning of last year but they aren't a dumpster fire if they have Tavares. They can easily contend.

That roster is literally the definition of bubble team. Definitely not a contender.

 

[Halak Ness Monster]

That roster is literally the definition of bubble team. Definitely not a contender.

Contend for the playoffs.

It'll be a year or two before we really know how good they can be. Many are very high on Barzal and Pulock but they have to prove themselves. Same for Ho Sang, Dal Colle, Beauviller.

One thing is for sure, dumpster fires don't contend for the playoffs. The Islanders will.

 

[Brian39]

At this point Colorado is going to take the best defenseman they can get. If Nashville finally would decide to trade Ekholm, they'd get Duchene. I highly doubt Colorado cares about what division the team is in anymore. They need to get a good player for him.

I see this scenario as way more likely than them signing Tavares. After the contract they gave Johansen, I don't see them giving Tavares a huge deal.

I made a similar point about Tavares/Nashville earlier in the thread. I think it is highly unlikely that they could land Tavares.

However, I think Duchene is the ideal center for them. Duchene hasn't been a top end 1C for 3 years at this point. In the last 3 seasons he's finished 65th, 20th and 29th in scoring among centers. He had one 30 goal season in that stretch, but the 18 and 21 goal campaigns in the other 2 seasons doesn't scream 1C on a contender. Some of that might just be the Avalanche, but banking on improvement from a change of scenery is always risky. IMO, he can be a 1C, but is better suited as the 2nd guy in an elite 1-2 punch down the middle. If Nashville can get him for a fair value, they should do it.

With all that said, I really hope the Blues are in on Duchene. The price Sakic seems to want is too high, but no one is going to pay his price and at some point Sakic is going to have to adjust. Every report is that they want a top end LD prospect and I think we could potentially put together a decent package around Dunn or Walman. I like both those guys a lot, but adding Duchene to our lineup would be a heck of an upgrade and would make us a top 2 team in the West. We'd have to send about $3.5 mil back, so I'd have to imagine Sobotka would need to be included. Given his play in the playoffs, I think Colorado wouldn't view him as a negative asset, so it's not like he subtracts value from a package.

 

[Dbrownss]

Contend for the playoffs.

It'll be a year or two before we really know how good they can be. Many are very high on Barzal and Pulock but they have to prove themselves. Same for Ho Sang, Dal Colle, Beauviller.

One thing is for sure, dumpster fires don't contend for the playoffs. The Islanders will.

Bubble teams contend for the playoffs....


If it was "show me the money" then JT would have already signed. Its not just about the money. It seems that he's not satisfied with the team. Prospects are good and all but JT has made the playoffs...what once in his career? He practically willed that team along. Ill agree its not fair to call them a dumpster fire but they are far from a well built cup contender

 

[Brian39]

As Blues fans, we want to believe it's different. It's not, though.

If the NYI show him the money, Tavares will remain an Islander.

You question how the Islanders can afford to keep JT and their young talent. Simple. Same way the Lightning kept all of that talent around Stamkos that you spoke of in the same post. Teams find ways to keep top talent.

That includes bringing up cheap, top prospects. The Islanders have plenty of good pieces on the horizon to help John Tavares. This is because they've spent their last 5 first round picks on forwards.

And of course loyalty plays into it. Tavares is the captain of the Islanders. He wants to get PAID, sure, but that is no different than Kane, Toews, McDavid, etc. They just want to get paid their worth. Like said, he'll stay if the offer is to his liking.

The Islanders sure aren't the Lightning of last year but they aren't a dumpster fire if they have Tavares. They can easily contend.

The GM and owner of every one of those franchises could easily promise that the team would be in the same city by the end of an 8 year contract. You're insane if you think the Islanders can promise that. Their 'new' arena is hands down the worst in the NHL, it's in a completely different part of the city as it was the majority of his time with the franchises, it appears damn near certain that they won't be playing at Barclay's 5 years from now, Bettman has repeatedly said that the Nassau Coliseum isn't fit for an NHL club and the organization has already been working on this arena issue for years.

They can tell Tavares that they are dedicated to staying in New York. That they want to find a solution to get the team as close to Long Island as possible. That they will find a solution. But they sure as hell can't put that in writing. And they can't lay out a concrete, approved plan to accomplish that.

So what's the answer when Tavares asks the question, "and what happens to the team in 3 years if Barclay's kicks us out and your quest to get a new arena on Long Island is no more successful than it has been until now?" Do you think Tavares is eager to sign a long term deal without asking that question? That is a scenario that is miles apart from any negotiation involving the players you mentioned. The Toews, Kane, Stamkos, Price, Benn, Kopitar, etc contracts all offered the assurance that the player could control his career. That is something the Islanders just can't offer.

I think Tavares remains an Islander, but this notion that it is no different than other contracts to top end pending UFAs ignores the reality. This is the first time under this CBA that a team with such an uncertain future is negotiating with such a high level talent.

 

[TK 421]

As Blues fans, we want to believe it's different. It's not, though.

If the NYI show him the money, Tavares will remain an Islander.

You question how the Islanders can afford to keep JT and their young talent. Simple. Same way the Lightning kept all of that talent around Stamkos that you spoke of in the same post. Teams find ways to keep top talent.

That includes bringing up cheap, top prospects. The Islanders have plenty of good pieces on the horizon to help John Tavares. This is because they've spent their last 5 first round picks on forwards.

And of course loyalty plays into it. Tavares is the captain of the Islanders. He wants to get PAID, sure, but that is no different than Kane, Toews, McDavid, etc. They just want to get paid their worth. Like said, he'll stay if the offer is to his liking.

The Islanders sure aren't the Lightning of last year but they aren't a dumpster fire if they have Tavares. They can easily contend.

The JT/Isles situation isn't nearly as simple as you're making it out to be. Tavares has made it really clear that re-signing with the Isles is a huge decision that he wants to take his time with. The arena deal and their on ice success are likely both factors in whether he re-signs or not. I strongly urge you to read the Islanders board if you think this is just wishful thinking by Blues fans.

 

[BleedBlue14]

The JT/Isles situation isn't nearly as simple as you're making it out to be. Tavares has made it really clear that re-signing with the Isles is a huge decision that he wants to take his time with. The arena deal and their on ice success are likely both factors in whether he re-signs or not. I strongly urge you to read the Islanders board of you think this is just wishful thinking by Blues fans.

Agree with you there, I've seen a whole lot of speculation from insiders basing Tavares decision on things like whether or not the team will be moved. Mainly the whole arena situation NYI is dealing with right now. I'm not talking about the team being moved like an Atlanta/Winnipeg although that's not exactly out of the question.

It's wishful thinking that Tavares would somehow come to STL yes. It's not wishful thinking to believe that there is a good chance that he doesn't resign with NYI.

 

[Majorityof1]

Contend for the playoffs.

It'll be a year or two before we really know how good they can be. Many are very high on Barzal and Pulock but they have to prove themselves. Same for Ho Sang, Dal Colle, Beauviller.

One thing is for sure, dumpster fires don't contend for the playoffs. The Islanders will.

I meant they are a dumpster fire without Tavares. TB had the same record w/o Stamkos as NYI did with Tavares. Also their cap is a bit of a mess with the Ladd contracts and $3M 4th liners. I also hate their goalie tandem, with no prospect there in sight.

Their overall prospect pool is nice, but prospects aren't sure things. Dal Colle has come along much slower than anticipated. His OHL production dropped in his 2nd post-draft year. He was .5 ppg in the AHL in his 3rd post-draft year. By comparison, most of the rest of the top 15 from that draft have already played significant time in the NHL, in addition to guys like Arvidsson, Fabbri and Pastarnak who were drafted later. Ho Sang has attitude problems that could derail his talent. I've seen a few re-drafts that had Dal Colle going 25th+ of that year and Ho Sang out of the first completely. Barzal is a Center, and Pulock a D, so they don't help Tavares' wing.

Who are these guys going to replace to save salary? Ladd isn't movable without heavy retention. They drop Kumelin, but that only goes so far. Bailey and Nelson will be due raises. So will De Haan if he performs as expected. Do you let one of them go for a unknown prospect? That sounds like a zero-sum game at best. They can probably find an extra $4M for a $9.5M offer fairly painlessly. But trying to win a bidding war is going to take some cuts, and that will hurt an already hurting team. They need those young guys to step up now.

Look, I am not saying there is 0% chance he re-signs with NYI. Obviously he has done team-friendly deals before and they are absolutely motivated to back up the Brink's truck this time. But as long as he stays unsigned, it's 50-50 in my mind. A good offer and the right situation could appeal to him. Just because one player in the past didn't jump ship, in a different situation, does not mean Tavares won't, or its not worth talking about the possibility he might.

 

[Brian39]

I meant they are a dumpster fire without Tavares. TB had the same record w/o Stamkos as NYI did with Tavares. Also their cap is a bit of a mess with the Ladd contracts and $3M 4th liners. I also hate their goalie tandem, with no prospect there in sight.

Their overall prospect pool is nice, but prospects aren't sure things. Dal Colle has come along much slower than anticipated. His OHL production dropped in his 2nd post-draft year. He was .5 ppg in the AHL in his 3rd post-draft year. By comparison, most of the rest of the top 15 from that draft have already played significant time in the NHL, in addition to guys like Arvidsson, Fabbri and Pastarnak who were drafted later. Ho Sang has attitude problems that could derail his talent. I've seen a few re-drafts that had Dal Colle going 25th+ of that year and Ho Sang out of the first completely. Barzal is a Center, and Pulock a D, so they don't help Tavares' wing.

Who are these guys going to replace to save salary? Ladd isn't movable without heavy retention. They drop Kumelin, but that only goes so far. Bailey and Nelson will be due raises. So will De Haan if he performs as expected. Do you let one of them go for a unknown prospect? That sounds like a zero-sum game at best. They can probably find an extra $4M for a $9.5M offer fairly painlessly. But trying to win a bidding war is going to take some cuts, and that will hurt an already hurting team. They need those young guys to step up now.

Look, I am not saying there is 0% chance he re-signs with NYI. Obviously he has done team-friendly deals before and they are absolutely motivated to back up the Brink's truck this time. But as long as he stays unsigned, it's 50-50 in my mind. A good offer and the right situation could appeal to him. Just because one player in the past didn't jump ship, in a different situation, does not mean Tavares won't, or its not worth talking about the possibility he might.

This has no bearing on Tavares and his opinion, but if I were an NHL agent I'd be advising my clients to stay the hell away from that team. They have way too much dead cap tied up in mediocre players and the arena situation would scare the hell out of me. If I had to lay down money, I'd put my money on them needing a rebuild (even if they keep Tavares) before I'd put it on them seriously competing for a Cup.

 

[GoldenSeal]

Armstrong must sign JT. All there is to it. He's the missing piece to the Blues puzzle.

 

[jura]

Armstrong must sign JT. All there is to it. He's the missing piece to the Blues puzzle.

 

[Ranksu]

but it will end

Yes, now you're gone
And from this moment on
I'll be crying, crying
Crying, crying
Yeah, crying, crying
Over you

Yeah Lets Go Blues.

 

[jura]

Yeah Lets Go Blues.

blues fans anthem

 

[Halak Ness Monster]

Bubble teams contend for the playoffs....

You realize it was the other guy that called the Islanders a bubble team and then said they are "definitely not a contender".

Bubble teams do contend for the playoffs. Occasionally they contend for and win the Conference/Cup.

Dumpster fires don't.

We seem to be on the same page. Good.

If it was "show me the money" then JT would have already signed. Its not just about the money. It seems that he's not satisfied with the team. Prospects are good and all but JT has made the playoffs...what once in his career? He practically willed that team along. Ill agree its not fair to call them a dumpster fire but they are far from a well built cup contender

And you know the Islanders have offered JT exactly what he wants? That's not the most well oiled front office.

As Blues fan, we want it to be a different situation than Stamkos. Maybe it is slightly different just because TB was so good and the Islanders are just playoff contenders for now. However, it's another captain deciding if he should abandon HIS team. The only team he has known. The team he has failed to bring a Cup to for so many years. I think, if offered the right amount of money, he will stay.

The point originally made with the Stamkos example is that I just don't think anyone should be reading TOO much into Tavares not re-signing yet. It doesn't mean TOO much to me. Everyone said the same thing about Stamkos and going home to Toronto when he hadn't signed...days before free agency.

I don't disagree that it is about more than money. I apologize if I didn't make that clear. Like I said above, loyalty will probably play into it. I just think as long as the money aligns with his wants...he'll return to the Island.

There's certainly hope, though. Don't get me wrong. Hopefully he pulls a Kevin Durant!

 

[Halak Ness Monster]

The JT/Isles situation isn't nearly as simple as you're making it out to be. Tavares has made it really clear that re-signing with the Isles is a huge decision that he wants to take his time with. The arena deal and their on ice success are likely both factors in whether he re-signs or not. I strongly urge you to read the Islanders board if you think this is just wishful thinking by Blues fans.

Did you read the Lightning board in late June with free agency bearing down on the TB front office last year?

Stamkos was going back home to Toronto!

 

[Klank Loves You]

Did you read the Lightning board in late June with free agency bearing down on the TB front office last year?

Stamkos was going back home to Toronto!

Similar, but ultimately a different situation. I still think that he'll end back with the Islanders, but Tavares has his beef with the situation. It's 100% on owners to try to make amends, and they have little leverage.

 

[HighNote]

As Blues fan, we want it to be a different situation than Stamkos. Maybe it is slightly different just because TB was so good and the Islanders are just playoff contenders for now. However, it's another captain deciding if he should abandon HIS team. The only team he has known. The team he has failed to bring a Cup to for so many years. I think, if offered the right amount of money, he will stay.

Oh come on now. Look at the team around him during those years. He hasn't had a single team good enough to actually contend for the cup in the 8 years he's been there. They've only made the playoffs 3 times. It's not like they were making the playoffs every year and choking each time. You can't hang a team's failures on one guy, even a guy as good as Tavares, if they haven't had a contending roster since before he was drafted.

If you ask me, it's the other way around. The organization has failed Tavares by not giving him a team that is worthy of winning a cup, or at least making some noise in the playoffs. If I was Tavares, I'd be unhappy with how the team has been built since I was drafted. He hasn't been given much of an opportunity to succeed. Now take into account he's been there for 8 years and he's in his prime. Would you want to sign with the same team that hasn't iced a contending team in 8 years, and shows no signs of getting much better right in the middle of your prime?

That question then brings it back to what his priorities are: winning or loyalty. I don't see how you can lean towards loyalty given the circumstances. He owes nothing to the Islanders, and in my opinion should get out of there ASAP. I'd hate to see his career, and his prime especially, wasted there.

 

[Bluesnatic27]

blues fans anthem

Still can't believe 9 Inch Nails had the audacity to cover such a beloved song .

 

[c-carp]

If we really want this dude and I would trade anyone on the roster for him, he is a better player than anyone we have, I would try and get out ahead of this thing. Call Garth Snow and offer Terasenko for him straight up. I'll trade a franchise Winger for a Franchise center everyday of the week and twice on Sunday. It would have to be a sign and trade but if the Isles would do it I would do it.

 

[The Note in MI]

If we really want this dude and I would trade anyone on the roster for him, he is a better player than anyone we have, I would try and get out ahead of this thing. Call Garth Snow and offer Terasenko for him straight up. I'll trade a franchise Winger for a Franchise center everyday of the week and twice on Sunday. It would have to be a sign and trade but if the Isles would do it I would do it.

You get a C for tank to play with not use him to get a center.

 

[Dbrownss]

If we really want this dude and I would trade anyone on the roster for him, he is a better player than anyone we have, I would try and get out ahead of this thing. Call Garth Snow and offer Terasenko for him straight up. I'll trade a franchise Winger for a Franchise center everyday of the week and twice on Sunday. It would have to be a sign and trade but if the Isles would do it I would do it.

Trade a top 3 franchise winger for an impending UFA(extention or no extention). Tavares will not cost that for any team. That doesn't reflect his value, but thats the situation he's in. If he currently had a multi-year contract, maybe you could make that case

 

[TK 421]

Did you read the Lightning board in late June with free agency bearing down on the TB front office last year?

Stamkos was going back home to Toronto!

The Lightning knew where they would be playing hockey and have a lease on a building.....Tavares is currently a member of the Islanders who are playing in Brooklyn. Remain willfully ignorant if you like but don't tell us to settle down. You're the guy who can't manage to see the difference in these 2 situations.