Speculation: Summer 2018 General Speculation/Discussion Thread

[CBJWerenski8]

I understand that this is your repetitive talking point/tool against me to attempt to belittle my opinions that you don't agree with. Its (imo) WAY off base here on a message board that is essentially designed for debate. Pitting player against player, team against team, etc, is the MAJORITY of conversation on here.

What is your opinion on the concept of the 'CBJ Board Summer Prospects Rankings' threads in relation to your supposed disdain for the disgusting act of "pitting player against player"?

I'll wait.

The goal of the Prospect Rankings is to literally put prospect against prospect and rank them according to however criteria you see fit. Sorry if the "repetitive talking point" doesn't measure up to your genius of "Player x > Wennberg/Anderson" that you spew every other thread. No, that isn't the majority of the conversation here. It's apart of it, sure, especially team vs team, but just because 90% of YOUR conversations are that way doesn't mean the whole board is. Not once did I call it disgusting. It's just all you do. You get on this board (ALOT) for being negative or not supportive of the team or the players, yet YOU go out of your way to be pretty damn negative about some important pieces to the team, which I find kind of funny.

You, however, just bring up player against player to prop up your guys (Murray, Dubinsky, Korpisalo, Jenner) and bring down others (Bobrovsky, Anderson, Wennberg, Werenski) when there was literally no reason to. You brought up that Nash would be a good pickup, and then go a complete 180 and turn it into a Jenner drove his hot line last year (even though he had less than 10 goals in like January) with Wennberg and Vanek. Nobody was talking about Jenner, Wennberg, or certainly Vanek. Yet you made a post, out of the blue, to again prop up Jenner and bring down Wennberg (not to mention basically calling everyone dumber than you).

It IS possible for you to say Jenner/Dubinsky/Korpisalo/Murray are good players without saying Wennberg sucks, you know.

 

[Maylo]

Ahh i miss Milano passing to no one and almost falling over 4 times out of 5.

 

[CBJx614]

Not to fuel the fire of the Wennberg discussion but...

 

[CBJx614]

I can see Nash signing in Columbus for $1 million (plus $1 million games played/performance bonus). Could even see him sign after training camp starts. I'm all for whatever Jarmo and Co. would agree upon.

Now, to the 'Captain' of the Redundanteers, Boone Jenner.



Sure, its just 1 play, but this is a PERFECT example of what Jenner brings most of the time, and what he did on a nearly nightly basis playing with Vanek and Wennberg. HE was the 1 "leading" or "driving" the line, not Wennberg, and certainly NOT Vanek.

Not only is the will there to get to the puck and beat the 2 Caps players, there is legitimate intelligence and (hand-eye/"stickhandling") ABILITY there to be the only guy of the 3 to get his stick on the puck (2 times) in a controlled manner to make a play. I highlight the number "2" there, because I want people to go 'full screen' and slow the vid down to 50%. You will then (hopefully) see that Jenner hits the puck forward a bit at about waist height just before it hits the ice. He then gets "control" of it enough to quite easily "muscle" the puck through 1-2 Caps players, before getting past them and making ANOTHER nice evasive maneuver with the (rolling/bouncing) puck past a 3rd poke-checking defensive player.

Then, comes the 2 things that you people give him zero credit for. In your mind and in your expressed perceptions on here, it doesn't exist. Vision (intelligence) and passing. Just before the "cut back" (another smart "skilled" decision) before the pass, there is a QUICK over the shoulder peek to see where Wennberg is/is going to be. LEGIT "Vision". Some/most/all of you wont understand the concept of the subtlety of the look, but the point is, that he WANTS the defenders/goalie to think he doesn't know where Wennberg is at that exact moment. Then, EVEN BEFORE the pass is the hesitation, and the way he does it. He's quite literally waiting for Wennberg to get into a "scoring position", while at the same time "selling" the shot to the goalie (mainly) and somewhat the d man. Its all there if you know what to look for. And this isn't some "once in a blue moon" type ****.​

Look, I can cherry pick a single plays too, one that shows Wennberg has better Vision, defensive play and passing than Jenner.

 

[EDM]

I would say more like 40 points,

 

[Maylo]

Gotta love Kukan commitment, he's only one overseas player that's been in Cbus more than a month already.

 

[Nanabijou]

I really think Kukan is going to seize his opportunity this fall and run with it.

 

[spintheblackcircle]

How full-bodied Blue Jacket Pierre-Luc Dubois spent his...

Waiting for the club’s skills coach at the airport was 20-year-old Pierre-Luc Dubois — all 6-foot-3 and 220 pounds of him

 

[Crede777]

How full-bodied Blue Jacket Pierre-Luc Dubois spent his...

Waiting for the club’s skills coach at the airport was 20-year-old Pierre-Luc Dubois — all 6-foot-3 and 220 pounds of him

Reminds me of the infamous article on Nazem Kadri.

McCudden was immediately struck by the thickness of the Blue Jackets center, who grew in a variety of ways during his rookie season.

 

[KJ Dangler]

How full-bodied Blue Jacket Pierre-Luc Dubois spent his...

Waiting for the club’s skills coach at the airport was 20-year-old Pierre-Luc Dubois — all 6-foot-3 and 220 pounds of him

This is what separates the good, from the great. Most 20 yr old kids would be living it up, spending money. All we've read about Dubois, (team Canada- staying after and soaking up how to get better at faceoffs- constantly working on his skills, in the gym the whole summer, 10 to 12 lbs of muscle added to his 6-3 frame. These are the intangibles that make good players, great.

 

[Monk]

This is what separates the good, from the great. Most 20 yr old kids would be living it up, spending money. All we've read about Dubois, (team Canada- staying after and soaking up how to get better at faceoffs- constantly working on his skills, in the gym the whole summer, 10 to 12 lbs of muscle added to his 6-3 frame. These are the intangibles that make good players, great.

I don't disagree, but this is sort of the very opposite of intangible!

 

[major major]

This is what separates the good, from the great. Most 20 yr old kids would be living it up, spending money. All we've read about Dubois, (team Canada- staying after and soaking up how to get better at faceoffs- constantly working on his skills, in the gym the whole summer, 10 to 12 lbs of muscle added to his 6-3 frame. These are the intangibles that make good players, great.

I don't disagree either. But I wonder how many puff pieces about Wennberg would it take for you to extend the same courtesy to him. We really don't know that he trains one minute less than Dubois. We really don't know how many hours per day Dubois plays Fortnite. We just have media narratives.

 

[KJ Dangler]

I don't disagree either. But I wonder how many puff pieces about Wennberg would it take for you to extend the same courtesy to him. We really don't know that he trains one minute less than Dubois. We really don't know how many hours per day Dubois plays Fortnite. We just have media narratives.

Cmon man , I wasn’t poking Wennberg . But now that you mention it , I guess I would say that the first time he shows up gaining 10 lbs in muscle in one offseason , or when every interview I read about him , is his desire to be great, how he’s always picking veterans brains, how to be better , how he spent the whole summer in gym focusing on being a beast , would be a start . Instead I see kitty photos on Instagram, and pictures of his girlfriend , and photos of him with a dancing stick , on #cbj twitter . Also, after years or the coach telling me I have to shoot the puck to become a legit threat in the Nhl, I would listen , and change my game up.

 

[major major]

Cmon man , I wasn’t poking Wennberg . But now that you mention it , I guess I would say that the first time he shows up gaining 10 lbs in muscle in one offseason , or when every interview I read about him , is his desire to be great, how he’s always picking veterans brains, how to be better , how he spent the whole summer in gym focusing on being a beast , would be a start . Instead I see kitty photos on Instagram, and pictures of his girlfriend , and photos of him with a dancing stick , on #cbj twitter . Also, after years or the coach telling me I have to shoot the puck to become a legit threat in the Nhl, I would listen , and change my game up.

I'll buy the shooting bit, but the rest is just bad heuristics.

In general, I wouldn't gauge someone's desire to be great by how often they mention it to reporters. You also can't measure someone's commitment by the pounds of muscle mass they've added each summer, as this is not bodybuilding. Finally, social media in general is a foolish way to assess players dedication to training.

Also the photo with the stick is literally a photo of Wennberg working out, either a lunge or some other core exercise. Yet it's nonetheless used against him. It seems like your game is rigged.

 

[thebus88]

Very interesting to me the amount of "hype" Wennberg got, after and during the 16/17 season, and somewhat before, in relation to the amount of "hype" Dubois has gotten after his 1st year. Not to mention 1 of them was a LEGIT top 3 pick and the other a mid 1st rounder. Wennberg has been passed up by Dubois in literally EVERY single way, and yet there's still (imo) this "downplaying" of Dubois.

I mean my point is this. Look at how people talk about our forwards in relation to "high end" skill and "potential"/"upside". Sure, NOBODY is quite on Panarin's (skill) level. But, lets go back to BEFORE 17/18 and REMEMBER what people were saying about Wennberg in general, and in relation to the team as a whole and Panarin being brought in. The idea that was attempted to be passed of as reality was something like, "Great, somebody 'skilled enough' to play with Wennberg".

People were hyping up Wennberg as a legit top-15 offensive (really not even "offensive"-overall) center and all that, and Dubois has come in and SURPASSED Wennberg in less than 1 hockey season.

You guys even had fans of other teams buying in. The amount of "hype" that WAS HERE for Wennberg, is NOT HERE for Dubois even though Dubois (and Wennberg) have proven that PLD is superior in every way.

 

[Hello Johnny]

Very interesting to me the amount of "hype" Wennberg got, after and during the 16/17 season, and somewhat before, in relation to the amount of "hype" Dubois has gotten after his 1st year. Not to mention 1 of them was a LEGIT top 3 pick and the other a mid 1st rounder. Wennberg has been passed up by Dubois in literally EVERY single way, and yet there's still (imo) this "downplaying" of Dubois.

I mean my point is this. Look at how people talk about our forwards in relation to "high end" skill and "potential"/"upside". Sure, NOBODY is quite on Panarin's (skill) level. But, lets go back to BEFORE 17/18 and REMEMBER what people were saying about Wennberg in general, and in relation to the team as a whole and Panarin being brought in. The idea that was attempted to be passed of as reality was something like, "Great, somebody 'skilled enough' to play with Wennberg".

People were hyping up Wennberg as a legit top-15 offensive (really not even "offensive"-overall) center and all that, and Dubois has come in and SURPASSED Wennberg in less than 1 hockey season.

You guys even had fans of other teams buying in. The amount of "hype" that WAS HERE for Wennberg, is NOT HERE for Dubois even though Dubois (and Wennberg) have proven that PLD is superior in every way.

Personally, I think Dubois is the real deal. I don't, however, see this conspiracy. People probably just want to see Dubois replicate it.

Also, who in the f*** hyped Wennberg to be a top-15 overall C? That's news to me.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Also, who in the **** hyped Wennberg to be a top-15 overall C? That's news to me.

It very clearly says "people" and "you guys" in that post, Mac. I don't know how more clear someone could be.

 

[Monk]

Also, who in the **** hyped Wennberg to be a top-15 overall C? That's news to me.

I can only speak for myself, but I do strongly believe that Wennberg remains one of CBJ's top 15 centers.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

I can only speak for myself, but I do strongly believe that Wennberg remains one of CBJ's top 15 centers.

 

[CBJFan827]

Personally, I think Dubois is the real deal. I don't, however, see this conspiracy. People probably just want to see Dubois replicate it.

Also, who in the **** hyped Wennberg to be a top-15 overall C? That's news to me.

I recall several people even last summer hyping Wennberg up to be something he never was projected to be--a dominant offensive center. I was more reserved in my estimations (and still am)--that he can be a strong #2 center who has a strong 200 foot game.

This season will be important for both Dubois and Wennberg, for very different reasons. I think the comparisons in this thread are unhelpful for the team, players, and fanbase. We can like BOTH of them, we don't need to pick one.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

I think the comparisons in this thread are unhelpful for the team, players, and fanbase. We can like BOTH of them, we don't need to pick one.

 

[major major]

Very interesting to me the amount of "hype" Wennberg got, after and during the 16/17 season, and somewhat before, in relation to the amount of "hype" Dubois has gotten after his 1st year. Not to mention 1 of them was a LEGIT top 3 pick and the other a mid 1st rounder. Wennberg has been passed up by Dubois in literally EVERY single way, and yet there's still (imo) this "downplaying" of Dubois.

I mean my point is this. Look at how people talk about our forwards in relation to "high end" skill and "potential"/"upside". Sure, NOBODY is quite on Panarin's (skill) level. But, lets go back to BEFORE 17/18 and REMEMBER what people were saying about Wennberg in general, and in relation to the team as a whole and Panarin being brought in. The idea that was attempted to be passed of as reality was something like, "Great, somebody 'skilled enough' to play with Wennberg".

People were hyping up Wennberg as a legit top-15 offensive (really not even "offensive"-overall) center and all that, and Dubois has come in and SURPASSED Wennberg in less than 1 hockey season.

You guys even had fans of other teams buying in. The amount of "hype" that WAS HERE for Wennberg, is NOT HERE for Dubois even though Dubois (and Wennberg) have proven that PLD is superior in every way.

The Dubois hype machine, which I'm fully a part of, has got to be louder than it was for Wennberg. At no point did I think Wennberg had the upside that Dubois does. There's PLD content all over the internet, you can find recent articles praising him on at least a half dozen sites.

Conversely, there's nothing for Wennberg right now. He got overhyped a year ago, which I was a part of, but now there's not anyone hyping him. It's just people defending him as not useless after some folks launch ridiculous unprincipled attacks on him. If that is too much for you to handle...

In any case, another example of bus loving one player by hating another.

 

[thebus88]

We can like BOTH of them, we don't need to pick one.

Am I allowed to NOT like a player though? Am I allowed to like Dubois MORE than Wennberg, and think he's BETTER, and express this while also explaining why?

The Dubois hype machine, which I'm fully a part of, has got to be louder than it was for Wennberg.

In any case, another example of bus loving one player by hating another.

Imo, what was said about Wennberg is essentially, "How good is this guy gonna be, when he gets it all figured out"? --And what I hear about Dubois--"Can he replicate his rookie year"?

I remember how Wennberg played his rookie year, and I remember what people said about him then. And I remember how "off base" I thought a lot of it was.

And, no. I do love Dubois. I don't "hate" Wenny, I hate what Wennberg used to be perceived as on here, mainly in relation to the rest of the team. Whether it was his current play or people talking about his "upside". I also hate that he is considered and given the opportunities as our "2nd line" center. And also, all the flack I got for telling people to literally ease up on the hype of him, isn't going to help my opinion of him.

 

[major major]

I'd be surprised if anyone thinks Wennberg is better than Dubois, or thinks he has better upside. No one is saying you can't say Dubois is better than Wennberg, but it's an odd thing to get a persecution complex over given that perhaps everyone already thinks Dubois is ahead of Wennberg.

And no, the story most folks are saying about Dubois is that he is only going to get better. He is a recommended "buy" in every fantasy article, as he should be.

This is all a sad strawman.

 

[Hello Johnny]

Am I allowed to NOT like a player though? Am I allowed to like Dubois MORE than Wennberg, and think he's BETTER, and express this while also explaining why?

Of course you are. However, I happen to think it's dangerous for us as a society to make baseless claims such as:

People were hyping up Wennberg as a legit top-15 offensive (really not even "offensive"-overall) center

without any evidence to back them up. Just trying to do my part to point out bullshit in a world where bullshit is what makes the world turn.