Player Discussion Subban

[Miller Time]

The value of Habs has doubled since Molson purchased them, so he's made $600M in 6 years. And he's focusing his investments (condos or whatever) not on the hockey team, but in businesses that profit off the Habs. He knows the arena will be filled every night as long as the team is decent. He doesn't have to push to be a winner. We could easily have the best front office and coach in the league if we spent the money like Toronto has done. Instead we spend far below our revenue levels. So his savvy cannot be understated. With Toronto being perennially poor, they get a free pass as well. If Toronto starts winning again with a franchise stud like Mathews, you'll see Molson change his tune then.

It costs a lot of money to win championships. And if you're already selling out, why bother right?

Gillette was responsible for rebuilding the value of the franchise, Molson just happen to be in the right place/right time when Gillette's other business venture mistakes forced him to cash out.


he's also spent aggressively on the hockey ops side of things since taking over, which as you point out, wasn't necessary from a purely business pov. He wants a winner, I don't doubt that at all. He's just made very poor decisions when it comes to hiring the people to deliver on that goal.

Gillette, on the other hand, was either happy-to, or mandated-that, Gainey keep the staff spending on the hockey side at a minimum.

 

[Rapala]

This is just one team executive throwing fuel on the fire imo, seeing what will shake loose. And it's all Therrien's fault for supporting the moron element in the crowd.

Bergevin made a huge mistake with that bridge contract, but I've liked his other moves. His options have been limited, let's face it. I'm not ready to give up on him, and highly doubt he'd do anything stupid.

Like back his ****** coach 'til the end of time stupid?

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Well put..but therein may exist some of the problem. No player is bigger than the crest. Not even PK. Folks are putting him on a pedestal..what exactly has he did with team to without Price. How many games has he singlehandedly won?

I think he's a great player..but there are other good players on this team too..let's not make him out to be indispensable if he really is a polarizing figure. We're not in that room..but good sources tell me he really is hard to deal with...he just never stops. You are with a guy like that all the time..you can only take so much.no matter how good he is.

People who are saying they wouldn't consider EDM's top pick, Draisaitl and Nurse for PK..are you crazy?

There would be $7M freed up to spend on a good dman through trade or a signing. Habs could well end up with Matthews and Juolevi through the draft..having Draisaitl and Matthews would allow them to deal Pleks for a dman sooner rather than later..and Eller too..Scherbak could b moved back to the wing.

Within 2 years look at this lineup:

Patch Matthews Scherbak
Chuck Draisital Gallagher
DLR McCarron Lehkonen/Hudon/
Lessio Mitchell Lehkonen/Hudon

Any one of a number of other prospects could push for bottom six spots too or players picked up in Eller/Plekanec and other deals

Nurse Petry
XXX Juolevi
Juulsen Beaulieu
Lernout

Price
Fucale

Weise, DSP, Flynn, Emelin, Pateryn, Gilbert etc. can be dealt for more picks.

I wouldn't dismiss this scenario..actually looks pretty intriguing to me.

The game isn't played in the dressing room though. Even if he is annoying (and I see how that can be the case) teams usually have annoying guys in the room. The solution is to make it work.

I agree no player is bigger than the crest... but it's not like this guy's missing practices, drinking or is a bad influence. He's just loud and brash. That might be annoying to some people but it shouldn't mean that we have to trade him. He genuinely cares on the ice, we've seen him stand up for his mates. I don't think that he sees himself as bigger than the crest. Just feels like a lot of this is way overblown.

I play ball in the summer. We've got a great player, he's super competitive and annoying. But at the end of the day we overlook it. I haven't heard PK do anything that can't be overlooked. I've seen a stupid WWF impression, I've seen him brag about himself and have an outsized personality. Nothing here that can't be overlooked in my opinion.

 

[Grant McCagg]

The likelihood of your lineup has the best case scenario happening in so many cases and Habs making a U-Turn on development.

1) Trade away Eller/DD/Markov
2) Fire MT at end of season and hire Guy Boucher
3) Win lottery and draft Matthews
4) Sign Stamkos as UFA, Subban/Boucher playing a role in the luring
5) Price actually returns to 100%
6) Sign Nygren by guaranteeing him a NHL spot barring horrible camp

Next Season:
Matthews - Galchenyuk - Stamkos
Pacioretty - Plekanec - Gallagher
Hudon - DLR/McCarron - Andrighetto
Byron - Mitchell - Carr
DSP/Lessio

Beaulieu - Subban
Emelin - Petry
<prospect returned for Markov> - Nygren
Pateryn

Price
Condon

I like my scenario better.

a U turn in developmnt? Nope......and Nygren? Not seeing him in MTL again.

It was mainly in response to folks who thought the proposed EDM deal wasn't good enough. You're damn right it is...that team contends for many years.

My scenario is more realistic than the Hab ever signing Stamkos..don't be ridiculous...you think he's coming to this soap opera? Figure he's dying to play for Therrien as well?

Even if they didn't land Matthews and had to "settle" for Laine..you move Chuck or Scherbak to center.

 

[Miller Time]

Well put..but therein may exist some of the problem. No player is bigger than the crest. Not even PK. Folks are putting him on a pedestal..what exactly has he did with team to without Price. How many games has he singlehandedly won?

I think he's a great player..but there are other good players on this team too..let's not make him out to be indispensable if he really is a polarizing figure. We're not in that room..but good sources tell me he really is hard to deal with...he just never stops. You are with a guy like that all the time..you can only take so much.no matter how good he is.

People who are saying they wouldn't consider EDM's top pick, Draisaitl and Nurse for PK..are you crazy?

There would be $7M freed up to spend on a good dman through trade or a signing. Habs could well end up with Matthews and Juolevi through the draft..having Draisaitl and Matthews would allow them to deal Pleks for a dman sooner rather than later..and Eller too..Scherbak could b moved back to the wing.

Within 2 years look at this lineup:

Patch Matthews Scherbak
Chuck Draisital Gallagher
DLR McCarron Lehkonen/Hudon/
Lessio Mitchell Lehkonen/Hudon

Any one of a number of other prospects could push for bottom six spots too or players picked up in Eller/Plekanec and other deals

Nurse Petry
XXX Juolevi
Juulsen Beaulieu
Lernout

Price
Fucale

Weise, DSP, Flynn, Emelin, Pateryn, Gilbert etc. can be dealt for more picks.

I wouldn't dismiss this scenario..actually looks pretty intriguing to me.

some of what you say is fair, but the polarizing part is way off... elite athletes in lots of team sports are polarizing/hard to deal with. the athletes that are about winning readily put aside the need to "like" each other as long as when it comes to performance, they can count on each other.

it's the weaker/role players that need to be easy to get along with... guys like Bergevin... precisely because the EQ/likability factor is about all they bring to the room.

any guy in the room that cares more about PK's off-ice personality than his on-ice personality, isn't a guy you need to keep.


The other problem with your scenario is laid bare by the very team you want to deal with. Drai/1st/Nurse/Laine isn't any better than Hall/RNH/Klefbom/Yakupov/Eberle/Drai/Nurse... which is what the oilers have.

money in the bank is worth more than the hope that a high-end prospect turns into an impact winner. PK is a winner. Has been throughout his career. Plays at an elite level regardless of what happens around him, elevates his game in high pressure situations, wants to be counted on when stakes are the highest.

as good as Drai/Nurse may be, no guarantee they have that kind of mentality & ability to handle the pressure of a market like montreal.

on paper, sure, it's an easy deal to say yes to. In real life, the odds of any one of those assets ever being the full package that PK is/has been, is very very very low.

 

[Grant McCagg]

The likelihood of your lineup has the best case scenario happening in so many cases and Habs making a U-Turn on development.

1) Trade away Eller/DD/Markov
2) Fire MT at end of season and hire Guy Boucher
3) Win lottery and draft Matthews
4) Sign Stamkos as UFA, Subban/Boucher playing a role in the luring
5) Price actually returns to 100%
6) Sign Nygren by guaranteeing him a NHL spot on PP barring horrible camp

Next Season:
Matthews - Galchenyuk - Stamkos
Pacioretty - Plekanec - Gallagher
Hudon - DLR/McCarron - Andrighetto
Byron - Mitchell - Carr
DSP/Lessio

Beaulieu - Subban
Emelin - Petry
<prospect returned for Markov> - Nygren
Pateryn

Price
Condon

I like my scenario better.

Odds of landing Matthews are infinitely higher if they trade Subban to EDM than if they don't.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

New thread is up. You may have to look for it under the bus though.