Steven Stamkos vs. John Tavares

[cesareborgia]

No use posting a poll for anything, the Toronto option will always lose.

 

[Ryan Michaels]

I'm talking points wise and about his current contract, what he did 8 years ago doesn't matter. The value on his contract now is bad.

Eh, it's not awful... It was a UFA overpay granted but not a particularly egregious one. I am a Leafs fan but I am also hard on their players when deserved, particularly Tavares last year. However, he was great year 1 and he looks great again now, does he bring as much as Matthews at the same number? Absolutely not. But I think if he plays like he has been so far and like in year 1 he's a 10 million dollar player. So yeah it's a bit too much but it's not bad by the definition that other teams would be thrilled to have him at that.

Voted Stamkos for the record I think he is clearly the answer outside of injury concerns.

 

[Ryan Michaels]

It took Stamkos sitting out the playoffs for Tampa to win it all. Says a lot.

John Tavares joins a stacked team, they don't even make the playoffs and he completely screw their cap structure. That's 2 franchises he's set back.

Guys come on, this is buffoonery across the board.

 

[Ryan Michaels]

Stamkos has had the better career this far.

But Tavares has always been the better player.

I guess these don't exactly have to be contradictions but you need to do much more leg work to explain yourself because I have no idea what you mean. Stamkos has always been better.

No use posting a poll for anything, the Toronto option will always lose.

And please don't do this either. As a Leaf fan you discredit examples of legitimate anti-Leaf bias by propagating this in a poll the Leaf player is deservedly losing.

 

[Ryan Michaels]

I see you making this argument all the time but it’s not a good one.

If one team was willing to overpay him even more doesn’t mean he’s not currently overpaid.

I agree with you to a point but it's not an argument totally without merit, he had many suitors at this price tag on an open market and his play hasn't dropped off. So if the market dictates price as it should then he isn't overpaid. That said, I do agree that he is one of the lesser players in his price range.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

You should at least be accurate and say how Toronto made the playoffs in 2019 with Tavares and missed them in 2020. The way you said that makes it sound like they missed the playoffs in his 2 years with them.

As for the salary cap you can thank the global pandemic for that, which is something Kyle Dubas or anyone else never thought would happen and change things.

Since you just used making the playoffs in another player comparison in another thread. Stamkos has made the playoffs 7 times, won multiple playoff rds, including a Stanley Cup. While Tavares has made the playoffs 5 times in his career. Won only one playoff rd. I am curious using your own arguments from the Matthews/Eichel thread. Advantage Stamkos?

 

[LeafsNation75]

That was his best year ever, he was 16th in league scoring as the 2nd highest paid forward in the league.

Last year, he was 29th in PPG in the league as the 4th highest paid forward, yes he's overpaid, by a lot.

You forgot that Tavares was 3rd in goals scored in the 2018-19 Season with those 47 goals, which was only behind the 51 goals for Ovechkin and 50 goals for Draisaitl.

Before the start of last season Tavares had an oblique injury and in October 2019 he suffered a broken finger when he blocked a shot against Washington and missed 7 games. So that was the reason why his stats were down compared to the 2018-19 Season.

However so this year Tavares is off to a better start with 4 goals, 3 assists, and 7 points in six games played, which includes scoring the game winning goal against Edmonton in Toronto's most recent game played.

 

[Halla]

Stamkos and Tavares are very close offensively
Tavares is a significantly better 2 way player (Stamkos isnt even a legit C anymore)

this is JT but HF boards so i predict he gets 40% max

 

[Dache]

That was just the usual suspects on here that are known for flaming Leaf players. It was funny though, Tavares scores 47 goals...and the peanut gallery on here says he is no good and declining. The funniest part about that is, the season before when he was playing in New York...those were the same posters that had him as a top three Center in the NHL. Then he comes to Toronto, scores more goals and points but is somehow worse .

Pretty sure the people that said he was declining said it after last season, not the 47 goal season.

 

[Dache]

Tavares was also unlucky when he finished 2nd to Jamie Benn for the Art Ross in 2015, since he got 86 points and Benn won it with 87 points.

Plus on the final night of the 2014-15 Season with Tavares leading the NHL in scoring he had 2 points, however Benn passed him with a 4 point game.

Why is it always unlucky to you? Maybe Crosby or Ovi are unlucky because they finished 3rd and 4th. Maybe Benn is unlucky because he didn’t have even more points. Sometimes people just get beat. It’s not being unlucky.

 

[Dache]

Would you still be saying Tavares was overpaid if he signed with the Lightning, considering they were one of the teams he meet with.

Also San Jose was offering Tavares $13 million AAV and he still signed for $2 million less to play in Toronto.

If Tavares can play like he did for Toronto in the 2018-19 Season when he had those 47 goals and 88 points because so far this season he's playing a lot better compared to last year, I won't call him overpaid.

you won’t call him overpaid no matter what

 

[Skolman]

Chances are no matter who signed Tavares he was going to get at least $11 million and we know San Jose was willing to pay him $13 million.

Is this the same Sharks team that gave Karlsson 11.5 mil per for the next 7 years?

Poor argument.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Why is it always unlucky to you? Maybe Crosby or Ovi are unlucky because they finished 3rd and 4th. Maybe Benn is unlucky because he didn’t have even more points. Sometimes people just get beat. It’s not being unlucky.

So when Tavares is leading the league in points going into the final night of the regular season, scores 2 more points that gives him 86 and Benn gets 4 points giving him 87 and wins the Art Ross by 1 point over Tavares you wouldn't say there was any luck involved based on those circumstances?

Also it's a poor argument saying Benn was unlucky because he didn't get more points since he ended up winning the Art Ross. So what does it matter in the end how many points he had?

That's like someone winning $10 million in the lottery and wishing they had won $20 million instead.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Pretty sure the people that said he was declining said it after last season, not the 47 goal season.

They didn't take into account that Tavares went into last season with an oblique injury and later on he broke his finger which caused him to miss 7 games. So that's why his stats went down compared to the 2018-19 Season. However so far this year Tavares is 100% healthy and has had a great start.

 

[Dache]

So when Tavares is leading the league in points going into the final night of the regular season, scores 2 more points that gives him 86 and Benn gets 4 points giving him 87 and wins the Art Ross by 1 point over Tavares you wouldn't say there was any luck involved based on those circumstances?

Also it's a poor argument saying Benn was unlucky because he didn't get more points since he ended up winning the Art Ross. So what does it matter in the end how many points he had?

That's like someone winning $10 million in the lottery and wishing they had won $20 million instead.

If the guy that came in 2nd is unlucky everyone can be unlucky. Or do you think hockey isn’t a skill game and is just luck like the lottery?

 

[Dache]

They didn't take into account that Tavares went into last season with an oblique injury and later on he broke his finger which caused him to miss 7 games. So that's why his stats went down compared to the 2018-19 Season. However so far this year Tavares is 100% healthy and has had a great start.

Yes, thru 6 games he’s playing very well. That doesn’t discount an entire season. But I hope he can keep it up. I’m not a fan of crapping on entire teams like some posters on here that refuse to back up their claims

 

[Sky04]

Stamkos and Tavares are very close offensively
Tavares is a significantly better 2 way player (Stamkos isnt even a legit C anymore)

this is JT but HF boards so i predict he gets 40% max

Tavares was never good defensively, Stamkos is the far better 2 way forward and it's not close offensively, Stamkos has significantly out produced Tavares in recent years.

 

[Dave92]

Depends on the role you need them to play, on a bad team where you need a first line center Tavares no question. On an elite team and you're trying to add a scorer, Stamkos.

 

[Rhaegar Targaryen]

Tavares just doesn’t look like the same dominant force he looked like with the Islanders, unfortunately. This is Stamkos

 

[Bluesguru]

I think right now, I’d take Taveras

 

[BAM]

I think it depends on what your team already has. This is the best Tavares has looked since joining the Leafs, Nylander really complements his game well. A team like the Oilers devoid of top 6 forward talent after LD, McDavid and RNH would probably prefer Tavares because he could carry any of their bottom 6 wingers and still be ppg as shown with the Isles.

A team like the Pens would probably prefer Stamkos because he can easily tag on the wing of Malkin or Crosby, both of which have proven they can elevate bottom 6 wingers but also elite playmakers that can feed Stamkos.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

So when Tavares is leading the league in points going into the final night of the regular season, scores 2 more points that gives him 86 and Benn gets 4 points giving him 87 and wins the Art Ross by 1 point over Tavares you wouldn't say there was any luck involved based on those circumstances?

Also it's a poor argument saying Benn was unlucky because he didn't get more points since he ended up winning the Art Ross. So what does it matter in the end how many points he had?

That's like someone winning $10 million in the lottery and wishing they had won $20 million instead.

So Crosby's wasn't unlucky missing 5 games due to a minor injury? He finished only 2 points back of Tavares (3 back of Benn) despite playing 5 games less.

If he wasn't "unlucky" with that minor injury, he likely wins the Art Ross over both of those guys. There's all sorts of "what if" scenarios you can play around with if you really try.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

The difference in players today comes down to skating and 5 v 5 play. Stamkos is a better skater and is more productive and effective 5 v 5.

PP wise you can say both are proficient. But Tavares really leans on the PP to get his points, whereas Stamkos produces more evenly at ES and on the PP. Tavares 5 v 5 play started to decline in 2 of his last 3 seasons he was a -13 in 17-18 and -7 last season. He relied heavily on the PP to put his points on the board. He had 30 PPP in his final season on the Island and 21 in a shortened season.

Of his 7 points this year, 5 have been on the PP. Only 2 ES points this year. If Tavares doesn't score in a game, you barely notice him. Stamkos with 0ne game less, has 6 pts, 2 have come on the PP. 4 even strength pts. His game will age better. He is still a powerful skater. Regardless, this is a year where both play in different divisions. Stamkos may be producing higher if TB played in the North division. We have to consider this.

A quick break down of PP and ES scoring. If we look back to last season. Stamkos was superior when you take away the PP stats.
Stamkos 57 GP 66 pts, 47 were not on the PP. +14
Tavares 62 GP 60 pts, 39 were not on the PP -7

 

[BAM]

Is this the same Sharks team that gave Karlsson 11.5 mil per for the next 7 years?

Poor argument.

Isles offered him the same amount as the Bolts, Bruins offered similar to the Leafs. [mod]

 

[LeafsNation75]

So Crosby's wasn't unlucky missing 5 games due to a minor injury? He finished only 2 points back of Tavares (3 back of Benn) despite playing 5 games less.

If he wasn't "unlucky" with that minor injury, he likely wins the Art Ross over both of those guys. There's all sorts of "what if" scenarios you can play around with if you really try.

Crosby had already won the Art Ross in 2007 and and 2014. So don't act like he wasn't robbed of winning it for a third time just because he did not win it in 2015.