Steen

[simon IC]

I suspect they both came back too soon.

 

[TheDizee]

why would he play injured this early into the season? if thats true, its incredibly selfish of him....and stupid.

 

[Linkens Mastery]

I suspect they both came back too soon.

Agreed, Bo has no speed and is totally not ready, and Steen is a black hole offensively.

Steen we kinda needed back due to our forward depth at the time, but, with even without him we were winning, and now with Bergy back it would be the best time to send him back to the IR if he's still hurt.

 

[joshyhockey26]

why would he play injured this early into the season? if thats true, its incredibly selfish of him....and stupid.

Highly doubt Steen has any sort of serious injury. Staff wouldn’t let him play. The players only have so much say when it comes to playing through something.

 

[wannabebluesplayer]

I don't think Steen is injured. I think he's getting older and his game is following him, unfortunately. Steen is going to be the new albatross contract with Lehtera gone based on returns for the money.

 

[KingBran]

I wonder if the Blues as a whole just feel less pressure to perform.

I mean in the beginning of the season... lost Fabbri, Steen, JBo and Berglund. The team HAD to step it up and they went above and beyond expectations.

Guys are coming back and they are playing worse. Almost like they are relaxing some... even subconsciously.

 

[wannabebluesplayer]

I wonder if the Blues as a whole just feel less pressure to perform.

I mean in the beginning of the season... lost Fabbri, Steen, JBo and Berglund. The team HAD to step it up and they went above and beyond expectations.

Guys are coming back and they are playing worse. Almost like they are relaxing some... even subconsciously.

I don't think it's a relaxing. I think it's chemistry was thrown off, especially on the defense. 4, 27, 55, 6, 29, and 41 were all playing together for all but 1 game while 19 was out and they all built chemistry together, especially Pietrangelo and Edmundson. Bouwmeester coming back and almost immediately being put with Pietrangelo has thrown that chemistry off. It will either take a while to get back or it's not going to come back. Pietrangelo was having a NORRIS season and has fallen almost off a cliff since having 19 added back. What scares me more is when Petro talked about how great it was to get him back. I hope that actually isn't the case and he was paying lip service. He played much better when he didn't have to worry about covering for his partner. Bouwmeester being slow to react or making bad decisions has directly led to 3-4 goals since he's been back. 10-15 games to get his game back under him? I understand that a veteran player in the NHL has to approve a conditioning stint, but I think the NHL needs something like the MLB has with rehab assignments after injuries and it should be mandated. I understand the argument that you can't get the NHL game feel or speed in the minors but it could at least help him get HIS legs and timing back under him, then he can transition to NHL.

Forwards also aren't scoring and the lines have begun to be juggled. I don't blame that on Berglund. That's just teams getting video and some unlucky bounces. It'll even back out, but something is needed to light another spark.

 

[KingBran]

That's kind of my point though. I am not blaming Berglund for the lack of O. I am saying the guys are relaxing a bit more, even subconsciously just thinking they don't have to give it everything they got night in and night out anymore because they shouldn't have to.

 

[Brian39]

Steen hasn't been good, but I'm not ready to write this off as the new normal with him. He has always played noticeably worse at RW than LW and we are asking him to play on the right a lot this year. I think we'd see improvement if we put him at LW consistently.

Totally agree about the PP. I've never liked him on the point. It made some sense 3 years ago when his shot was downright lethal, but it hasn't made sense in at least 2 years. I have no clue how numerous PP coaches have come to the conclusion that the best role for him on the PP is the point and/or that we don't have better options for the point.

With all that said, he is on pace for 46 points with a shooting percentage below 6%. That number should creep up. I realize that a lot of his production has come in bunches, but that is often the case with secondary scoring. He is going to have a handful more 3 point nights throughout the year. Even if there is no improvement, we are still a long ways off from his contract being comparable to Lehtera's. You can absorb spending $5.7 mil on your 6th highest scoring forward a hell of a lot easier than absorbing $4.7 mil on a guy who doesn't belong in the top 9 more than 15-25 games a year.

Edit: I wouldn't be surprised if he is nursing some kind of injury that impairs his ability to play along on the wall on the left side. Yeo seems to be doing everything he can to keep him on the right, including playing Jaskin on left wing occasionally. That makes very little sense if Steen can play LW. If this is this case, the team needs to sit him down instead of adjusting usage to let him play through it.

 

[wannabebluesplayer]

Steen hasn't been good, but I'm not ready to write this off as the new normal with him. He has always played noticeably worse at RW than LW and we are asking him to play on the right a lot this year. I think we'd see improvement if we put him at LW consistently.

Totally agree about the PP. I've never liked him on the point. It made some sense 3 years ago when his shot was downright lethal, but it hasn't made sense in at least 2 years. I have no clue how numerous PP coaches have come to the conclusion that the best role for him on the PP is the point and/or that we don't have better options for the point.

With all that said, he is on pace for 46 points with a shooting percentage below 6%. That number should creep up. I realize that a lot of his production has come in bunches, but that is often the case with secondary scoring. He is going to have a handful more 3 point nights throughout the year. Even if there is no improvement, we are still a long ways off from his contract being comparable to Lehtera's. You can absorb spending $5.7 mil on your 6th highest scoring forward a hell of a lot easier than absorbing $4.7 mil on a guy who doesn't belong in the top 9 more than 15-25 games a year.

Oh 100% he no longer should be on the point during the PP. Put him on the half-boards on his opposite side for one timers. I don't necessarily agree that his contract is more tolerable than Lehtera's because of their production or position/ranking on the team. Almost a $6mil contract is hard to swallow at all if you aren't getting the production you need from him.

I do agree that we'd see and improvement if they put him back to his proper side during 5 on 5, but again, his production is in decline no matter where you put him and if that contract was done next year, I wouldn't be harping against Steen, but it's going for three more years after this year, that's a problem.

 

[Brian39]

Oh 100% he no longer should be on the point during the PP. Put him on the half-boards on his opposite side for one timers. I don't necessarily agree that his contract is more tolerable than Lehtera's because of their production or position/ranking on the team. Almost a $6mil contract is hard to swallow at all if you aren't getting the production you need from him.

I do agree that we'd see and improvement if they put him back to his proper side during 5 on 5, but again, his production is in decline no matter where you put him and if that contract was done next year, I wouldn't be harping against Steen, but it's going for three more years after this year, that's a problem.

It's absolutely hard to swallow, but the gap in 'needed production' vs 'actual production' is significantly smaller for current Steen than it was for Lehtera. In his last season, Lehtera was playing below a replacement 3rd line player. Right now, Steen is still producing on par with a $3.5-$4 mil player. It's not what you want out of a $5.7 mil contract, but his actual play is well above a replacement level player. At his very worst, he is well above a replacement level player and would have a spot on any top 9 in the league if cap wasn't a consideration. Even at an extra million, that is a much, much easier contract to work around than a guy who has been a healthy scratch in 35% of the games for the 4th worst team in the league. At his current play/production, Steen is overpaid by a couple million. Lehtera was overpaid by about $4 mil.

If this is the Alex Steen we get for the rest of his contract, the contract will be like trying to swallow a very large pill. Lehtera's was like trying to swallow a golf ball. Neither is great, but one is objectively still better than the other.

 

[ManyIdeas]

I hate to be that guy that is removing "random" samples from a set of games, but if you take out the two games vs Calgary, he's got 6 points in 19 games.

Of those 6, 2 against edmonton in 2 games, 1 against LA, 1 against toronto and 2 against Minnesota

 

[Brian39]

I hate to be that guy that is removing "random" samples from a set of games, but if you take out the two games vs Calgary, he's got 6 points in 19 games.

Of those 6, 2 against edmonton in 2 games, 1 against LA, 1 against toronto and 2 against Minnesota

He had 13 multi point games that accounted for 30 of his 51 points last year. That's 60% of his production in 13 nights. This year, he has 3 multi-point nights out of 21 games played, which puts him on pace for 11.7 multi-point nights over an 82 game season (or 11 over 76 games played, which is what he played last year). Those multi-point nights account for 66% of his overall production so far.

There is certainly a dip in production from last year. However, when just looking at his non-multi-point nights, we're talking a difference of 7 or 8 points over the course of an 82 game season. That is pretty darn close to the difference between his expected production this year vs last year.

My conclusion: removing his multi-point games this year shouldn't lead to any additional concern than his overall numbers. Like most non-elite forwards, he is going to get most his production on the backs of multi-point nights. There is nothing to suggest that he won't have a comparable number of multi-point nights as he did last year. He is on pace to have only 2 fewer multi-point nights, so we can probably expect 25ish points out of multi-point nights this year. If he continues to score at .222 points per game in non-multi-point nights, we can expect about 45ish points from him.

Edit: I heavily edited my original post because I didn't realize that the games not excluded by ManyIdeas included a multi-point night. I adjusted my numbers accordingly, which led to a fairly different conclusion.

 

[BadgersandBlues]

I've been very wary of Steen's contract since the moment he signed it. I advocated for trading him a few years ago when I thought his value was sky high and he would regress/age poorly. He's simply not the same player he was 3ish years ago when he had Oshie dishing him passes and Backes creating space for him. Now that he has to fight for his own space he isn't nearly as effective. His stick is where the offensive cycle goes to die. He's also become allergic to shooting, which I cannot understand, other then to assume it has to do with him not getting the puck in space as much as when he played with those two guys. I've never subscribed to the theory that he's an excellent passer, he got a lot of assists on the PP thanks to Shattenkirk. If making a 10 foot pass to arguably the best PP QB in the league is evidence of excellent passing, then shit, I'm friggin Gretzky.

I don't think moving him to the left full time (which he's played a fair amount of this year) or moving him to the half boards on the PP is really going to change much. He is who he is, an older, slower, former sniper that needed help getting the puck in space in the offensive zone. Once he has it he's lethal, but getting it is the trick.

 

[Brian39]

I've been very wary of Steen's contract since the moment he signed it. I advocated for trading him a few years ago when I thought his value was sky high and he would regress/age poorly. He's simply not the same player he was 3ish years ago when he had Oshie dishing him passes and Backes creating space for him. Now that he has to fight for his own space he isn't nearly as effective. His stick is where the offensive cycle goes to die. He's also become allergic to shooting, which I cannot understand, other then to assume it has to do with him not getting the puck in space as much as when he played with those two guys. I've never subscribed to the theory that he's an excellent passer, he got a lot of assists on the PP thanks to Shattenkirk. If making a 10 foot pass to arguably the best PP QB in the league is evidence of excellent passing, then ****, I'm friggin Gretzky.

I don't think moving him to the left full time (which he's played a fair amount of this year) or moving him to the half boards on the PP is really going to change much. He is who he is, an older, slower, former sniper that needed help getting the puck in space in the offensive zone. Once he has it he's lethal, but getting it is the trick.

Let's say we moved to an umbrella PP with him on the wall instead of the point. Do you think that Schenn/Schwartz/Tarasenko can't be as effective at creating space and getting him the puck as Oshie/Backes?

I'm not saying that he is going to be a 65 point pace player again, but I think we can still put him in better situations that slow the decline.

 

[carter333167]

I honestly don't believe steen is one of the top five options we have for the first unit PP.
Yet, we roll him out there out of some sense of seniority (at least from my perspective). That is not on Steen, it's on the coaches.

The same logic led to overplaying Lehtera when he clearly was dragging down players who, in a vacuum, were more skilled or otherwise more effective. I guess locker room politics play some role and admittedly we simply aren't privy to such dynamics.

 

[Celtic Note]

I wonder if the Blues as a whole just feel less pressure to perform.

I mean in the beginning of the season... lost Fabbri, Steen, JBo and Berglund. The team HAD to step it up and they went above and beyond expectations.

Guys are coming back and they are playing worse. Almost like they are relaxing some... even subconsciously.

We have seen this many times in the past as well.

 

[BadgersandBlues]

Let's say we moved to an umbrella PP with him on the wall instead of the point. Do you think that Schenn/Schwartz/Tarasenko can't be as effective at creating space and getting him the puck as Oshie/Backes?

I'm not saying that he is going to be a 65 point pace player again, but I think we can still put him in better situations that slow the decline.

Well I was focusing more on 5v5 play. I think he's been playing with two of our better playmakers, but man Oshie, for all his faults, could really change speeds and shift angles in a way that opened up space. I don't see this skill from Stastny/Sobotka, at least not on the regular basis that Oshie did it. I think our PP has a problem, once upon a time he could sit near the half wall and blast one timers.....now that spot is Tarasenko's. Not really sure why Steen is on the point if he's not utilizing his one-timer. That's pretty much the only plus he brings to the PP.

Our first PP needs to shoot more in general. It's like all 4 other guys are simply trying to wait until the seam opens up and they can get the puck to Tarasenko. Let's count how many shot attempts our PP1 takes that isn't Tarasenko. I'll bet the 4 other guys average 1 attempt per 3 PPs. It needs to change.

 

[m1a2lt]

Watched Steen on his one good scoring chance last game and, forgive the hockey cliche, but he looks like he's holding the stick too tight. If he just took the one timer straight off the pass, most likely a goal. But holding on to the puck for a second and Dubnyk gets over and makes the save. Difference between the W vs OTL. Think he will refind his groove; hoping it will come. But until it does, pull him off the #1 PP and take some pressure off.

 

[Celtic Note]

Watched Steen on his one good scoring chance last game and, forgive the hockey cliche, but he looks like he's holding the stick too tight. If he just took the one timer straight off the pass, most likely a goal. But holding on to the puck for a second and Dubnyk gets over and makes the save. Difference between the W vs OTL. Think he will refind his groove; hoping it will come. But until it does, pull him off the #1 PP and take some pressure off.

He has been overthinking since his last high scoring season.

 

[BadgersandBlues]

Watched Steen on his one good scoring chance last game and, forgive the hockey cliche, but he looks like he's holding the stick too tight. If he just took the one timer straight off the pass, most likely a goal. But holding on to the puck for a second and Dubnyk gets over and makes the save. Difference between the W vs OTL. Think he will refind his groove; hoping it will come. But until it does, pull him off the #1 PP and take some pressure off.

I counted at least 4 times he passed up on solid looks to either make a pass or look to try and make a pass that put him in a worse position where all he could do was take a bad angle shot b/c the passing lane never opened up. It's pretty frustrating.

 

[MissouriMook]

I counted at least 4 times he passed up on solid looks to either make a pass or look to try and make a pass that put him in a worse position where all he could do was take a bad angle shot b/c the passing lane never opened up. It's pretty frustrating.

You can say that about pretty much all of our forwards with the exception of 10, 17 and 91. It seems to be a sickness with this club, having survived several coaches and some significant roster turnover. Too many times we get caught trying to make "the next play" instead of taking the one in front of you.

On topic, I think Steen looked much better overall last night despite the aggravating deferrals. He seemed quicker and far more engaged than he has all season.

 

[wannabebluesplayer]

Steen looked better last night, but much like others have said, he's still too gun shy when given great opportunities. That powerplay though, wow, Sydor, Berube, and Yeo REALLY need to pull Steen off that point. He simply cannot get his shot through and is a liability now. He needs to be down in the slot, closer to the goalie. I'd also try a 1-2-2 setup with him Stastny behind the net, Steen and Berglund on the wings, and Parayko and Tarasenko or Edmundson up top. The 1st power play unit should be 2-1-2 with Pietrangelo and Dunn, then Tarasenko, then Schwartz and Schenn on the door steps.

 

[tomin]

Steen looked better last night, but much like others have said, he's still too gun shy when given great opportunities. That powerplay though, wow, Sydor, Berube, and Yeo REALLY need to pull Steen off that point. He simply cannot get his shot through and is a liability now. He needs to be down in the slot, closer to the goalie. I'd also try a 1-2-2 setup with him Stastny behind the net, Steen and Berglund on the wings, and Parayko and Tarasenko or Edmundson up top. The 1st power play unit should be 2-1-2 with Pietrangelo and Dunn, then Tarasenko, then Schwartz and Schenn on the door steps.

Steen had one PP during 1st period I believe where he was kinda stuck or posted up in the higher slot, not working the point... a much more hopeful set up for the Blues imo. It has been so long of not only not generating a scoring chance from his shot up top but also not even being a threat that when I find him there it is a mute unit...

 

[Whitsmith803]

This is it. He isn't playing well, but when you couple that with how he is being used then it is going to look far worse.

Schwartz - Schenn - Tarasenko
Steen - Stastny - ?
Sobotka - Berglund - ?
Upshall - Brodziak - Sundqvist

Get a RW on that second line, then you can have a makeshift RW on the third. As it is we're playing too many players out of position, or moving them up a line, and hoping it'll just continue to work.

I don't care excuses. Army doesn't need to pay 5.7 million on a 4 year contract for a 33 yr old who has dealt with injuries it seems like every season. We have 3 more years of a player that's Lehtera 2.0 slow skater who shoots into defenders consistently. Is he more suited for third line. Yes just like Sobotka but at Cap hit of 5.7 that's 1st line/2nd line at least money. That's the issue. Blues have Cap issues