Olympics: State of USA Hockey after another disappointing Olympics (Merged)

[Helistin]

Uh, why?

Their talent pool still pales in comparison to Canada, yet they're close every year. How many players on the US team would even make Team Canada? Suter and Kessel. Maybe Backes.

They've done fine, winning bronze would be a solid result for them.

People still haven't learned that you don't win games by looking at the roster...

 

[Chris Hansen]

USA needs more top end talent. That's why leaving Bobby Ryan at home is such a head scratcher.

Backes and Kesler shouldn't be your 1st line center options when you are playing the best in the world.

USA needs a number 1 center like a Ryan Getzlaf.

Not sure there are any American born players on the horizon that fit that mold.

Eichel could be that guy eventually. Not like Getzlaf (they're entirely different players), but could be a true #1 center.

Quite a few years away from that, though.

 

[Osprey]

I question whether Team USA has any true leaders. Parise and Suter both recently ditched their former teams that they were leaders for in order to pursue their personal goals. Callahan is holding out for big money (and may be traded) and Brown is a total, quiet non-leader. Backes might be the only decent leader on the team, and he wasn't given an A, so he might not have even exercised such a role. Still, I'm not sure if he's enough. This team needs a true leader. Canada has a number of guys who would fill that need, but the USA just can't seem to produce even one. That's a big problem and one reason why you see the inconsistency of effort, IMO.

I've been a big proponent of NHLers in the Olympics since 1998, and maybe this is just the sting talking, but I'm starting to almost hope now that the NHL decides to not send NHLers anymore. Maybe the USA would stack up a little better, but, even if they don't, there won't be nearly the disappointment when they lose. I'm losing a lot of faith in USA being able to meet expectation and win gold, so it'd almost be preferable to come in with lower expectations and not partly sour the Olympics for hockey fans by falling short (as both the men's and women's teams have done for me in the last few days).

USA needs a number 1 center like a Ryan Getzlaf.

I think that, realistically, they need two #1 centers. Having just one makes it easy for the other top teams to shut that one line down. If the USA had Getzlaf, they still would've come up short, IMO. Having one center like him when Canada has three like him (two of which are even better) still isn't much of a competition. If USA wants to really compete with Canada and not just hope for an upset, they need more than just one #1 center, IMO.

 

[sepHF]

USA Hockey is fine, it's a short single elimination tournament... **** happens.

Canada could have easily found themselves in the same situation.

I question whether Team USA has any true leaders. Parise and Suter both recently ditched their former teams that they were leaders for in order to pursue their personal goals. Callahan is holding out for big money (and may be traded) and Brown is a total, quiet non-leader. Backes might be the only decent leader on the team, and he wasn't given an A, so he might not have even exercised such a role. Still, I'm not sure if he's enough. This team needs a true leader. Canada has a number of guys who would fill that need, but the USA just can't seem to produce even one. That's a big problem and one reason why you see the inconsistency of effort, IMO.

Callahan is a great leader, I don't think Parise and Suter heading to Minnesota diminishes their leadership skills at all either.

 

[Chris Hansen]

Yeah, you're probably right. Martin wasn't awful. Maybe my disdain for Orpik is creating some bias towards Penguins' defenders.

I think Pacioretty is a really good player, I just think Saad's speed, agility, and puck possession game translates better to olympic ice than his. He makes defenders look helpless on NHL ice when he rushes the puck. I could only imagine watching him on a bigger ice surface. I think he would have been more dangerous, and I think he's a better defensive player than Patches.

Parise was a complete no-show, but who would have seen that coming when the team was picked? He was a lock for the team, but if we're looking at 2018 and NHL players are still involved, I don't bring him back...

Haha. No worries.

Yeah, you make a good point. If it was me I would've taken Saad over Pacioretty, but I've generally assumed that's only because I'm a Blackhawks fan. At the end of the day, they're both solid and there were much more bizarre choices.

Yeah, Parise had a rough tournament. Wasn't he just returning from an injury, though? Perhaps it was rust, or maybe he came back too early. Possibly both. Unless he declines badly by 2018 (which is possible - four years is a long time), you have to pick him for that team.

 

[magic school bus]

I like Saad a lot (hell, his is the only Blackhawks jersey I even own), but Pacioretty is a really good player. I didn't have a problem with Saad being left off. Ryan and Okposo were easily the biggest snubs at forward that I saw.
Although if we're sticking strictly to which side each player plays, then yeah, Saad (and about half the American wingers in the NHL) should've made it over Brown. He is terrible.

Really? I thought Martin was fine. He's agile, good puck mover, good defensively. I liked the selections of Suter, McDonagh, Shattenkirk, and Martin. Beyond that, though, not so much.

I disagree on Shattenkirk. He was taken as an offensive defenseman and wasn't even trusted to play on the 1st PP. He provides 2nd pairing level offense and Yandle's better than that.

 

[serge2k]

Over reaction much?

They lost a close game to Canada and then came out flat in the bronze medal game. Finishing 4th in a single game elimination tournament isn't bad. It's not like they lost to Latvia, Finland medals consistently (4 of last 5 olympics) and people should have expected that they would come out and play their ***** off for the bronze.

 

[Chris Hansen]

I question whether Team USA has any true leaders. Parise and Suter both recently ditched their former teams that they were leaders for in order to pursue their personal goals. Callahan is holding out for big money (and may be traded) and Brown is a total, quiet non-leader. Backes might be the only decent leader on the team, and he wasn't given an A, so he might not have even exercised such a role. Still, I'm not sure if he's enough. This team needs a true leader. Canada has a number of guys who would fill that need, but the USA just can't seem to produce even one. That's a big problem and one reason why you see the inconsistency of effort, IMO.

Meh, this is pretty vacuous. These guys are all NHL players, and quite a few of them have championship experience.

Parise leaving NJ provides zero indication of his leadership ability. It simply shows that he wanted to come home and had no loyalty to the Devils. And why should he have had any? His contract was up. It was perfectly within his rights to go elsewhere.
(Obviously if I was a Devils fan I would hate the guy, but that has nothing to do with his ability to lead).

As for the "inconsistency of effort," the only game where the effort wasn't great was the latest one. And despite what all the keyboard-heads want to say about "oh my gosh guys there's no excuse!!!," these guys are human. Of course they weren't going to be all there mentally playing for the bronze. It was gold or bust in the minds of every player on that team.
Disappointment is human. Professional hockey players are human. It is a fact that fans forget disturbingly often.

 

[Chris Hansen]

I disagree on Shattenkirk. He was taken as an offensive defenseman and wasn't even trusted to play on the 1st PP. He provides 2nd pairing level offense and Yandle's better than that.

I said that I liked the Shattenkirk selection, not that he was better than Yandle. I wanted both on the team.

 

[Sergei Shirokov]

No Canadian fans should be calling this an overreaction, we do the same when we don't make the finals in the WJ's let alone Olympics.

 

[Esq]

Brown, Parise, Pacioretty and Wheeler did absolutely nothing for me in any game that mattered. Parise was especially disappointing given that he got to play with Kane/Kesler.

Oshie was also completely useless 5-on-5.

 

[jeangauthier]

USA Hockey is fine, it's a short single elimination tournament... **** happens.

Canada could have easily found themselves in the same situation.



Callahan is a great leader, I don't think Parise and Suter heading to Minnesota diminishes their leadership skills at all either.

Great post...........there is nothing wrong with the USA hockey program.........a 10 day knock out tournament with little practice is in no way to grade a program............Hyperbole at it`s best.........

 

[novisor]

Brian Burke can't even spell GOAL

 

[novisor]

Burke and Poille seem like a disease to be honest

 

[serge2k]

No Canadian fans should be calling this an overreaction, we do the same when we don't make the finals in the WJ's let alone Olympics.

Yes, and it is an overreaction, at times.

 

[Pay Carl]

USA needs more top end talent. That's why leaving Bobby Ryan at home is such a head scratcher.

Backes and Kesler shouldn't be your 1st line center options when you are playing the best in the world.

USA needs a number 1 center like a Ryan Getzlaf.

Not sure there are any American born players on the horizon that fit that mold.

Nick Bjugstad is a future Ryan Getzlaf if he hits his potential

 

[Ventana*]

Horrible showing by the USA.

 

[DanZ]

I don't see how this is "another" disappointing Olympics... I mean yes, losing to Canada in OT in Vancouver sucked, but there is no shame in it. Canada is the best hockey nation on the planet...

 

[Pay Carl]

Brown, Parise, Pacioretty and Wheeler did absolutely nothing for me in any game that mattered. Parise was especially disappointing given that he got to play with Kane/Kesler.

Oshie was also completely useless 5-on-5.

I think Wheeler played pretty well today, not really his fault he never got any ice time

He also had a filthy pass to McDonagh I believe one game

The others I'd agree on, especially Parise. But Wheeler is fine with me since he barely even got to play

 

[jeangauthier]

No Canadian fans should be calling this an overreaction, we do the same when we don't make the finals in the WJ's let alone Olympics.

No we don`t.....some yes but for the most part? No way .......folks move on.......Many sports stations need to feed the minions with bi-polar opinions to get the ratings up........seriously

 

[Sergei Shirokov]

Yes, and it is an overreaction, at times.

I agree, and thats why we shouldn't be doing it, its hyporcitical.

I understand USA fans on this one, I think they have every right to react this way, just look at there coach & some of the stupid decisions they made in the selection process.

No we don`t.....some yes but for the most part? No way .......folks move on.......Many sports stations need to feed the minions with bi-polar opinions to get the ratings up........seriously

Yes we do.

I remember everyone freaking out after losing inthe WJ's to Finland, myself included.

So I don't think Canadian fans should be criticizing American fans in this situation. If we lost that game the country would have exploded.

 

[DaveG]

Eichel could be that guy eventually. Not like Getzlaf (they're entirely different players), but could be a true #1 center.

Quite a few years away from that, though.

Should be able to roll Eichel and Glachenyuk down the middle at the Olympics come 18, so there's definitely room to hope from a pure skill standpoint. Though 18 MAY be just a bit early in their careers to expect top 6 roles in a best on best out of them unfortunately.

Really not much down the middle going forward right now that looks that good at the moment.

 

[zombie kopitar]

. Backes might be the only decent leader on the team, and he wasn't given an A, so he might not have even exercised such a role. Still, I'm not sure if he's enough. This team needs a true leader. Canada has a number of guys who would fill that need, but the USA just can't seem to produce even one. That's a big problem and one reason why you see the inconsistency of effort, IMO.

......

I think that, realistically, they need two #1 centers. Having just one makes it easy for the other top teams to shut that one line down. If the USA had Getzlaf, they still would've come up short, IMO. Having one center like him when Canada has three like him (two of which are even better) still isn't much of a competition. If USA wants to really compete with Canada and not just hope for an upset, they need more than just one #1 center, IMO.

I agree, I thought Backes should have been the captain 100%, he wears it on his sleeve no matter when and where he's playing.
I would argue that Pavelski have excelled in a role with an 'A' as well. Only one of Suter/Parise should have worn a letter imo.
I think #1 center is different then elite center. Pavelski is a #1 center, but will never be elite. If he was on the Leafs,that USA line would be rivaled by very few.

besides there's no other center on team Canada like Getzlaf; Staal and Jumbo are off the roster:p

The USA does a great job at developing great 2 way 2nd line/1b type centers. I don't know what they need to do to start producing at the level of Toews,Getzlaf ect.

 

[2ka RasK*]

Burke and Poille seem like a disease to be honest

Puke and Boil

cuz that's why

 

[Osprey]

Meh, this is pretty vacuous. These guys are all NHL players, and quite a few of them have championship experience.

Being NHL players and having championship experience does not automatically make them great leaders. If it did, there would be hundreds of great leaders out there. There have been only two American Cup-winning captains in NHL history: Hatcher and Brown, both of whom were very underwhelming captain material and whose teams likely won in spite of it. It's a problem for USA hockey. Heck, it seems like a problem with the USA, in general, when you look at how few true leaders we manage to produce for political office, too, but I digress.

Parise leaving NJ provides zero indication of his leadership ability. It simply shows that he wanted to come home and had no loyalty to the Devils. And why should he have had any? His contract was up. It was perfectly within his rights to go elsewhere.

I don't fault Parise and the other players for pursuing money and the comforts of home--don't misunderstand--but I think that it does raise a flag that they're, perhaps, not the ideal leaders that Team USA really needs. You said, yourself, that Parise "had no loyalty to the Devils." He was their captain. You don't see even a teensy bit of problem with that? Again, as an outsider, I don't hold leaving against him, but when we're talking about my team (Team USA), it's not who would be my ideal choice for captain (even though the team doesn't have any ideal choice, but that's my whole point).

Of course they weren't going to be all there mentally playing for the bronze. It was gold or bust in the minds of every player on that team.

That's exactly the problem. There needs to be at least one person in that room for whom every medal is important, and who can drill that notion into the others' heads, even if he's as disappointed as they are. Finland has had that attitude and they've won a medal in 4 of the last 5 Olympics, especially by winning a number of bronze medal games. If it's "gold or bust" and you're left playing for bronze, then you've given up, and that should never be acceptable in sports. Being "human" is no excuse for giving up. If they try hard and just fall short, perhaps partly because they're human and are struggling with pride and confidence after losing the last game, that's excusable, but just giving up is not.