Tawnos
A guy with a bass
I love this movie, but I don’t think it’s better than any of the OT (yet). I’d put it more on par with TFA and RotS.
Movies: Star Wars VIII The Last Jedi, for those who have seen it! (SPOILERS)
- Thread starter canuckster19
- Start date
- Status
I love this movie, but I don’t think it’s better than any of the OT (yet). I’d put it more on par with TFA and RotS.
Arizonan God
Registered User
Don’t understand people complaining that Rey is no one. That’s kind of the point. Anakin was no one, yet possessed great power that he could have used for great things. That’s the whole point of the ending scene at the end with the kid and the broom - to show that heroes can be from any background.
Really enjoyed it. Loved that it didn't feel like a retread of Empire. I honestly didn't know what was going to happen...and I liked it.
The Throne Room scene was tremendous. Highlight of the film for me.
The Throne Room scene was tremendous. Highlight of the film for me.
Interesting, to me it did feel like a retread of the Empire, with sprinkles of Return of The Jedi. The bad guys are relentlessly following a disjointed band of rebels that barely escape, you know, like in the Empire.
PBandJ
If it didn't happen in the 80's, it didn't happen
I will say, I can see why some of the old school fans are frustrated. The end of ROTJ is basically undone. Han is dead, Luke was a pessimistic old man who had failed in everything he had tried to do (and damn near killed a child), Leia is leader of a fractured Resistance...
That sucks. But I do feel Han and Luke were given dignified ends that will help forward everything.
That sucks. But I do feel Han and Luke were given dignified ends that will help forward everything.
I agree about Han and Luke, and I don't think that is the story line people are complaining about. IMO the entire Luke/Leia/Han arc is done well, specially the cynical, ageing Luke. the It is the development of the new protagonists that is lacking. They are simply a shadow of how well developed the old protagonists were.
I like that Rey's parents are just nobodies, so I like that direction for the franchise. I always thought that made the most sense. I mean, it's a big f***ing universe, right?
The entire Finn and Rose story was such a complete waste of time though. That movie wasted like an hour trying to make a couple moral points that really coulda been done more efficiently (and might feel less patronizing were they not coming from Disney). And I feel like they did very little actual character building in that plot. I feel like Finn is getting real shortchanged here.
Also. JJ Abrams is a lame duck director now cuz he's gotta deal with Leia! What's up with that?!
The entire Finn and Rose story was such a complete waste of time though. That movie wasted like an hour trying to make a couple moral points that really coulda been done more efficiently (and might feel less patronizing were they not coming from Disney). And I feel like they did very little actual character building in that plot. I feel like Finn is getting real shortchanged here.
Also. JJ Abrams is a lame duck director now cuz he's gotta deal with Leia! What's up with that?!
quoipourquoi
Goaltender
Kinda hated it. Just seemed so inconsistent with what it wanted to say in regard to Poe/the Dern character, Rey/the deconstruction of the Jedi identity, Finn/retreating to fight another day, the Rebellion/Del Toro's perspective on both sides' flaws.
I would have been fine with it if it ended with Luke looking off into the suns with the promise that he'd be coming for Kylo Ren, because I can get behind that movie, but then they went and turned him into a blanket a la Yoda. Too many fake-out deaths throughout, and Leia flying back to the ship was visually too similar to the climax of Guardians of the Galaxy Vol 2 - but weird and unearned emotionally.
Dialogue was great, but structurally, it was the worst of the eight. They didn't talk about sand or turn all Stormtroopers and Boba Fett into clones, so it's not my least favorite overall, but man, I didn't like this.
What's the driving point of interest for #9? Rey isn't avenging Han Solo; she practically bonded with Kylo Ren in spite of the previous film's murder, and there's no ultimate evil beyond him. Poe and Finn are just spinning their wheels in an endless Empire/Rebellion fight where no ground is permanently gained or lost.
Mark Hamill nailed it though.
I would have been fine with it if it ended with Luke looking off into the suns with the promise that he'd be coming for Kylo Ren, because I can get behind that movie, but then they went and turned him into a blanket a la Yoda. Too many fake-out deaths throughout, and Leia flying back to the ship was visually too similar to the climax of Guardians of the Galaxy Vol 2 - but weird and unearned emotionally.
Dialogue was great, but structurally, it was the worst of the eight. They didn't talk about sand or turn all Stormtroopers and Boba Fett into clones, so it's not my least favorite overall, but man, I didn't like this.
What's the driving point of interest for #9? Rey isn't avenging Han Solo; she practically bonded with Kylo Ren in spite of the previous film's murder, and there's no ultimate evil beyond him. Poe and Finn are just spinning their wheels in an endless Empire/Rebellion fight where no ground is permanently gained or lost.
Mark Hamill nailed it though.
OhCaptainMyCaptain
Registered User
Isn’t the fact the #9 is so unknown what makes this great? I swear, can never please people. It’s either way too according to script, or wow now we don’t know exactly what’s going to happen next so I don’t like it. People confuse me.
Oh, and I loved it. I had no issue with the length. I swear I checked the time and there was only like 45 minutes left before I knew it. I feel like maybe Finn does get shortchanged, but let’s be honest... someone has to. If not Finn, then it’s Rey, Luke, Ren, or someone else who gets short-changed... unless people want a 4 hour movie, which I doubt, because apparently 2.5 is too much.
OhCaptainMyCaptain
Registered User
I was a big fan. I love how Ren killed Snoke without actually turning to the light. He just wanted power. That was well done.
OhCaptainMyCaptain
Registered User
I honestly think you’re overestimating how developed Luke was after 5. Is she really that different from Luke after Empire? He was being trained, left early, and got her ass kicked by someone far stronger than her (Vader in 5; Snoke in 8). Their stories are actually extremely similar, so to act like they’re on some way different levels of development seems a bit based on feelings rather than evidence from the OT.
OhCaptainMyCaptain
Registered User
It’s a new trilogy. The end of ROTJ should be gone heading into 9 with a few remaining pieces.
OhCaptainMyCaptain
Registered User
Holy crap, someone who gets it. Well said. There were a lot of moving pieces, but what’s wrong with that? I was easily able to keep track of everything and saw the point behind it all.
OhCaptainMyCaptain
Registered User
Well, a movie that is meant to have someone die will, naturally, feel darker and more dramatic. That’s also a one time story, where this is a three part tale. I never understand why people want to compare trilogy movies and these one-offs. They serve completely different purposes.
OhCaptainMyCaptain
Registered User
You want them to go into character development on another one? Sometimes people just have limited roles. She served her purpose and did it well, but I saw no need to have ever more of Phasma than we already did.
OhCaptainMyCaptain
Registered User
PBandJ
If it didn't happen in the 80's, it didn't happen
I'm starting to think the ending of 9 is going to be a rework of Jacen and Jaina Solo's final battle.
AlanHUK
5-14-6-1
The only part of it that didn't make sense to me was Leia's sudden ability to use the force to cocoon herself in the vacuum of space and then force pull herself back to the ship. There has been nothing to indicate she's that strong in the force in any of the cannon material to this point.
They borrowed from KOTOR2 nicely for Luke I thought.
Snoke was clearly way too powerful for any character to face head on, and I don't mind the way he died, same as a lot of leaders have in actual history betrayed by one of their own in a power grab, I hope there's an animated series to flesh him out some more though.
Kylo manipulated Snoke perfectly, Snoke's arrogance in stating that he knew Kylo's thoughts and was in his head was his downfall, what Kylo did was essentially what a good street magician does, took the focus to one area with a very deliberate display while something subtle happens elsewhere so the trick can work.
Considering Poe was never meant to survive TFA his character is probably my favourite of the new ones.
Rey being a nobody is good for Star Wars as a whole.
Unsurprisingly I loved the soundtrack, John Williams is a genius, march of the resistance is an unreal piece and I love that it was bought back for VIII.
On a slight tangent, If the Star Wars land places don't sell roast porg I will be disappointed.
They borrowed from KOTOR2 nicely for Luke I thought.
Snoke was clearly way too powerful for any character to face head on, and I don't mind the way he died, same as a lot of leaders have in actual history betrayed by one of their own in a power grab, I hope there's an animated series to flesh him out some more though.
Kylo manipulated Snoke perfectly, Snoke's arrogance in stating that he knew Kylo's thoughts and was in his head was his downfall, what Kylo did was essentially what a good street magician does, took the focus to one area with a very deliberate display while something subtle happens elsewhere so the trick can work.
Considering Poe was never meant to survive TFA his character is probably my favourite of the new ones.
Rey being a nobody is good for Star Wars as a whole.
Unsurprisingly I loved the soundtrack, John Williams is a genius, march of the resistance is an unreal piece and I love that it was bought back for VIII.
On a slight tangent, If the Star Wars land places don't sell roast porg I will be disappointed.
OhCaptainMyCaptain
Registered User
Alright, so it’s definitely one of those movies where you really do need to take a little bit after the movie to process it. Luckily, I used my 20 minute drive back from the theatre to do exactly that.
After even more examination, I am very pleased with how that movie went. No movie is going to be perfect and still a few lingering questions, but I don’t think I could have asked for too much more.
The movie had me guessing what was going to happen the entire time. I wasn’t sure what the next move would be. And I am realizing it does have some parallels to Empire, but during the movie I wasn’t like “omg that’s just like Empire” like I did during TFA, which, to me, shows a high level of directing. Keep it along the same lines, but not in a way that is so obvious is jumps out right away. At the same time, it’s unique in its own way. But I feel like the people who are upset just want crazy stuff to happen. When does that ever happen in movies that aren’t just solo movies? Did huh really expect some of the main characters to die off? That’s crazy talk and just wishful thinking for some.
And this also now allows 9 to be its own. People are right to ask “what is 9 even going to be?” But isn’t that the beauty of it? It stuck to a somewhat similar story line, but also just opened a new path going into the final chapter.
Man. The more I think about this, the happier I am. Again, I’m not saying it’s perfect, but there is a lot of positive stuff I got out of this.
Oh, and I personally love what they’re doing with Ren. Kills his leader simply out of hunger for more power? That is not what the OT did, btw, for whoever it was that drew that parallel. I don’t see him as whiny. Whiny is what Anakin was. Ren is undisciplined and driven by emotion too often. There is a huge difference between the two.
After even more examination, I am very pleased with how that movie went. No movie is going to be perfect and still a few lingering questions, but I don’t think I could have asked for too much more.
The movie had me guessing what was going to happen the entire time. I wasn’t sure what the next move would be. And I am realizing it does have some parallels to Empire, but during the movie I wasn’t like “omg that’s just like Empire” like I did during TFA, which, to me, shows a high level of directing. Keep it along the same lines, but not in a way that is so obvious is jumps out right away. At the same time, it’s unique in its own way. But I feel like the people who are upset just want crazy stuff to happen. When does that ever happen in movies that aren’t just solo movies? Did huh really expect some of the main characters to die off? That’s crazy talk and just wishful thinking for some.
And this also now allows 9 to be its own. People are right to ask “what is 9 even going to be?” But isn’t that the beauty of it? It stuck to a somewhat similar story line, but also just opened a new path going into the final chapter.
Man. The more I think about this, the happier I am. Again, I’m not saying it’s perfect, but there is a lot of positive stuff I got out of this.
Oh, and I personally love what they’re doing with Ren. Kills his leader simply out of hunger for more power? That is not what the OT did, btw, for whoever it was that drew that parallel. I don’t see him as whiny. Whiny is what Anakin was. Ren is undisciplined and driven by emotion too often. There is a huge difference between the two.
quoipourquoi
Goaltender
No. We're going into the final movie with no centralized focus. There's a man-frozen-in-carbonite sized hole in #9, and the build up to every potential confrontation is less heated going into #9 than it was going into #8 - especially the Rey vs. Ren end game. I'm not upset that I don't know what will happen in #9; my disappointment comes from being less interested in any individual aspect of it after the choices made in #8.
Snoke can have no direct battle with Rey. Luke cannot avenge his other pupils. Rey forgives the man who murdered Han Solo. Finn has already dispatched of Phasma, and Poe has no real enemies.
Honestly, Kylo Ren vs. General Hux has more heat than any other conflict. They've burned through the deaths of Han Solo and Luke Skywalker to no larger benefit. Everything they gained going into #8 by having Kylo Ren remorselessly murder Han Solo was lost by the end of this movie as they've drifted back into ambiguity over Ben Solo's conscience. The ship should have sailed on that one the second Harrison Ford's face lit up with the flash of Ren's lightsaber. To back down now is to have wasted the emotion of Rey, Chewbacca, and Leia. And the heroes ran, which is exactly what they said not to do with Finn's arc.
I'm easy to please. 6 other Star Wars movies did a better job of it, and frankly, I think this is the first to not only not push the series forward, but to throw a wet blanket over the conflict between the people with blue and red lightsabers.
PBandJ
If it didn't happen in the 80's, it didn't happen
Seeing so many people whining about SJW propaganda and I'm sitting here like "did we watch the same movie"?
How is there no conflict between Rey and Ren? The rest I can grant you but Rey bent over backwards trying to turn Kylo. He betrayed her. She closed the door on him figuratively and literally. He made his choice and it's up to Rey as the Last Jedi to stop him. I'd say there's plenty of conflict left.
quoipourquoi
Goaltender
There is a difference between saying there is no conflict and saying that the conflict is - as a result of the actions in #8 - far less anticipated.
Rey and Kylo Ren will fight in #9. But I was more excited to see them fight directly after the murder of Han Solo and before last night when I saw them forge a mental connection and come to a misunderstanding while dispatching Snoke.
It would be like building a film on the promise of Luke Skywalker and Darth Vader fighting again after the death of the Emperor because Luke misunderstood Vader's intentions when he saved his life - or if the hook coming out of Empire Strikes Back was that Darth Vader still wanted the rule the Empire with Luke but that Luke was a nobody whose parents sold him for booze money.
On its own, it was a clever reveal and Driver sold the truth of Rey's parents perfectly. His charisma is off the charts.
KingBran
Three Eyed Raven
- Apr 24, 2014
- 6,436
- 2,284
Disappointed.
The Force Awakens had so much build-up to some great plotlines. Then The Last Jedi comes along and just dismisses them / kills them off. They had such a great opportunity to build on some of these story-lines and characters like Snoke, who Rey's parents are, The story of Anakins lightsaber.
Instead they kill Snoke, Rey's parents are nobody and the mystique of Anakins saber is gone.
The whole theme of the movie was out with the old, in with the new. Which is fine. I don't care that Luke died and that Han died in TFA, obviously Leia won't be around for Episode 9 either. But Snoke was actually becoming some great powerful (no pun intended) force! We were starting to see his power and without learning anything more about that. He's killed and Rey and Kylo become BFF's for 3 minutes. Dumb. Just dumb.
And that kid at the end with the broom how he used the force to grab it and the narrative going on is basically saying you don't have to be special to use the force, which I guess is why they felt they could kill Snoke and have it be no big deal, is also dumb.
Star Wars isn't supposed to have narrative and flashbacks. That's another thing that bugged me about this one. The only "flashbacks" are what someone sees with the force. Not 3 different versions of some recollection. Star Wars shows you what is happening. In this movie there was lots of translation / narrative and less raw story.
Just not a very Star Wars produced movie. The plot was super thin and Characters were killed off simply for shock value with no substance.
I didn't hate it, it had some cool scenes and some good comic relief but it's absolutely not even close to being a good SW movie in my mind.
The Force Awakens had so much build-up to some great plotlines. Then The Last Jedi comes along and just dismisses them / kills them off. They had such a great opportunity to build on some of these story-lines and characters like Snoke, who Rey's parents are, The story of Anakins lightsaber.
Instead they kill Snoke, Rey's parents are nobody and the mystique of Anakins saber is gone.
The whole theme of the movie was out with the old, in with the new. Which is fine. I don't care that Luke died and that Han died in TFA, obviously Leia won't be around for Episode 9 either. But Snoke was actually becoming some great powerful (no pun intended) force! We were starting to see his power and without learning anything more about that. He's killed and Rey and Kylo become BFF's for 3 minutes. Dumb. Just dumb.
And that kid at the end with the broom how he used the force to grab it and the narrative going on is basically saying you don't have to be special to use the force, which I guess is why they felt they could kill Snoke and have it be no big deal, is also dumb.
Star Wars isn't supposed to have narrative and flashbacks. That's another thing that bugged me about this one. The only "flashbacks" are what someone sees with the force. Not 3 different versions of some recollection. Star Wars shows you what is happening. In this movie there was lots of translation / narrative and less raw story.
Just not a very Star Wars produced movie. The plot was super thin and Characters were killed off simply for shock value with no substance.
I didn't hate it, it had some cool scenes and some good comic relief but it's absolutely not even close to being a good SW movie in my mind.
KingBran
Three Eyed Raven
- Apr 24, 2014
- 6,436
- 2,284
Also, I don't remember anyone saying "I have a bad feeling about this."
- Status
