Stan Kroenke joins real estate group building NHL/NBA quality arena in San Diego

[Voight]

34+ teams league here we go...

The Ponzi scheme continues

They've already exhausted the family thing: Stan Kroenke owns the LA Rams. His wife owns the Avalanche and Nuggets. The NFL requires that kind of arrangement because the Avs/Nugs are in another NFL team's market...

That rule existed in the NFL so different NFL owners were not competing for the same sports dollars in the same city. It had petty feud implications, like "The Cleveland Indians controlled the stadium and the Browns paid rent... Pittsburgh Steelers owners hate Cleveland, he could buy the INDIANS and become the Browns landlord."


But THIS would be different. There's no way Stan can buy the Coyotes and move them to San Diego when Ann owns the Avalanche. It's a conflict of interest for either team to operate when their owners are literally in bed with each other.

Wrong. They got rid of that rule years ago.

NFL finally ditches cross-ownership policy

Well, Stan Kroenke can take back the Nuggets and the Avalanche from the family members who were running them on his behalf.

www.nbcsports.com

 

[Voight]

Point of order, but the NFL dropped the market-cross-ownership rule a few years back. It's why Harris is being allowed to buy the Commanders despite already owning the 76ers and Devils. (In fact, supposedly the rule was rescinded specifically to grease the wheels to allow Kronke to buy the Rams and relocate them back to LA.)

The rule was rescinded in 2018, Rams moved in 2016.

 

[KevFu]

The Ponzi scheme continues



Wrong. They got rid of that rule years ago.

NFL finally ditches cross-ownership policy

Well, Stan Kroenke can take back the Nuggets and the Avalanche from the family members who were running them on his behalf.

www.nbcsports.com

Hence using PAST TENSE in the next paragraph: "That rule existed in the NFL." They got rid of the rule AFTER the ownership of Nuggest/Avalanche was transferred from Stan to Ann to abide by the rule.

And you could have just kept reading the thread where it was addressed a few posts later.

The reason it matters is because Stan can't own an NHL team in San Diego when his wife owns the Avalanche. There might not be a specific rule against it, but there's no way the NHL approves it.

So either Stan is going to be an investor in the facility but not the owner (which takes revenue away, you'd rather have the uber rich investor own the team and get all the revenue from the entire project), OR if Stan owns the team, the family has to sell the Colorado sports empire to buy a San Diego sports empire.

 

[KevFu]

Mother Teresa would have been toxic to you if she had been the owner.

Mother Teresa was a jerk. Apologies if you're related to Mother Teresa.

Ballmer bought the Forum after MSG tried to c-block them and propose moving the Lakers back there of all things, so the Clippers basically have two revenue sources (or two expenses, but it's LA, and everyone always is performing in LA).

As for the issue of the Ducks, the Arrowhead Pond just turned 30 this month, which naturally means to many people "time to tear it down!" but is it necessary just to do so?

I haven't heard it talked about much, but the Clippers are leaving "Staples Center" and opening a new arena right south of the Forum.

 

[Harvey Birdman]

So the plan is to redevelop THIS area, with the new arena being to the right of my Red Pin Mark

View attachment 722718


But you can see the old arena is right there on the left. So obviously, you don't tear down the old arena until the new arena is finished.

That area is in desperate need of redevelopment. When I came to San Diego 12 years ago it was a lot worse. I’d say the amount of liquor stores and strip clubs in that area have been cut in half. But that arena is a relic clinging on for dear life only due being really the only closed roof music venue in the city above that of a bar or theater size venue. I’m not sure if they’d wait to rip it down before the new one is built. I know the biggest hurdle that project faces is the local residents. For being generally inside the city proper there are some cheaper housing options in that area compared to most. And the locals there do not want to see their property taxes or lease/rent prices raise.

 

[Voight]

Hence using PAST TENSE in the next paragraph: "That rule existed in the NFL." They got rid of the rule AFTER the ownership of Nuggest/Avalanche was transferred from Stan to Ann to abide by the rule.

And you could have just kept reading the thread where it was addressed a few posts later.

The reason it matters is because Stan can't own an NHL team in San Diego when his wife owns the Avalanche. There might not be a specific rule against it, but there's no way the NHL approves it.

So either Stan is going to be an investor in the facility but not the owner (which takes revenue away, you'd rather have the uber rich investor own the team and get all the revenue from the entire project), OR if Stan owns the team, the family has to sell the Colorado sports empire to buy a San Diego sports empire.

AFAIK theres only a rule against a single person owning two teams (James Norris owned the Red Wings while also owning a large chunk of MSG shock, the league prevented him from buying more as that would've resulted in him becoming the majority owner of the Rangers).

In the Kroenkes case they could argue that they both have their "own" money. Tho I agree the NHL probably wouldn't allow it.

Its a bit of a stretch but the NFL didn't have an issue with Rob Walton (Anns cousin) buying the Broncos.

 

[LadyStanley]

Would have impact on where Anaheim has their AHL team. And where might NHLSD want their affiliate?

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

Yeah, the population is there but I dont see southern California having the appetite for 3 NHL teams.

 

[GKJ]

Yeah, the population is there but I dont see southern California having the appetite for 3 NHL teams.

San Diego and Los Angeles are not the same.

 

[TheLegend]

San Diego and Los Angeles are not the same.

In the greater LA area, San Diego is known more as "LoCal".

 

[awfulwaffle]

That'd be silly. They should put teams in San Diego and Riverside before taking a team out of Anaheim.




The NFL shouldn't even HAVE divisions anyway. You don't need them. There's 15 conference opponents, and 17 games. Just play everyone in the conference once and your top two rivals twice. You're done.

None of this SOS crap or 8-9 division winners, or fourth tie-breaker non-sense. If you're tied in the standings, you played one game head to head with 13 of the other 15 teams. There's only two teams you could need a second tie-breaker with.

This is actually a brilliant idea. Only problem is the current setup, your home market plays the oppossing conference team once every 4 years(so once every 8 years at your home stadium). Dolphins/Cowboys as an example. Me living in Dallas, I'll see them on tv guaranteed one afternoon every 4 years, and at jerry world once every 8 years. I wouldn't see them at all unless they were somehow the team that is shown. But since I live in the Dallas market, they are more likely to show any other NFC game instead of an AFC game in the non-Cowboy time slots.

 

[Tawnos]

San Diego and Los Angeles are not the same.

It takes longer to drive from Staples Center in LA to Pechanga Arena in San Diego than it does to drive from Bell Centre in Montreal to Videotron Centre in Quebec City.

 

[famicommander]

Perhaps Joe Tsai would be interested in an NHL team?

He owns the NLL's San Diego Seals (alongside the NBA's Brooklyn Nets, WNBA's New York Liberty, G-League's Long Island Nets, most of the NLL's Las Vegas Desert Dogs, part of the Premier Lacrosse League, and a minority share of MLS's LAFC).

The Seals currently share the dated Pechanga Arena with the AHL's Gulls. Maybe they could share the NHL arena with a new team as the Avalanche/Mammoth, Canucks/Warriors, Flames/Roughnecks, Flyers/Wings, and Sabres/Bandits do currently.

 

[KevFu]

This is actually a brilliant idea. Only problem is the current setup, your home market plays the oppossing conference team once every 4 years(so once every 8 years at your home stadium). Dolphins/Cowboys as an example. Me living in Dallas, I'll see them on tv guaranteed one afternoon every 4 years, and at jerry world once every 8 years. I wouldn't see them at all unless they were somehow the team that is shown. But since I live in the Dallas market, they are more likely to show any other NFC game instead of an AFC game in the non-Cowboy time slots.

Thank you. I've been saying it for a while now. I understand the concept of non-conference play being a thing. But I really don't think it's a lucrative aspect of the league.

So Dolphins coming to Dallas. If you're a Dolphins fan in Dallas, that means:
- you moved once (from FLA to TEX) and you could again before the Dolphins visit
- you're not from FLA and picked the Dolphins as your team because (reasons), so where people live doesn't really matter to fans.

The NFL has very little problem selling tickets. The road attraction isn't a big deal when 31 stadiums are at 92% capacity already. Washington was the lowest at 85% last year because they're a trainwreck franchise.

An eight-year cycle is meaningless because what star players are NFL stars for 8+ years running on the same team? You look at 2022 starting QBs vs 2014 and there's TWO GUYS the same: Aaron Rodgers (who's now on the Jets) and Derek Carr, but the Raiders moved form Oakland to Las Vegas!).

 

[Headshot77]

I could see San Diego being the safety valve for Arizona, and a future 2-team expansion into Atlanta and SLC.

 

[Voight]

Perhaps Joe Tsai would be interested in an NHL team?

He owns the NLL's San Diego Seals (alongside the NBA's Brooklyn Nets, WNBA's New York Liberty, G-League's Long Island Nets, most of the NLL's Las Vegas Desert Dogs, part of the Premier Lacrosse League, and a minority share of MLS's LAFC).

The Seals currently share the dated Pechanga Arena with the AHL's Gulls. Maybe they could share the NHL arena with a new team as the Avalanche/Mammoth, Canucks/Warriors, Flames/Roughnecks, Flyers/Wings, and Sabres/Bandits do currently.

If thew expansion fee is really a billion dollars or closer to 2bn, I doubt hell be interested. That would be a not insignificant portion of his net worth.

 

[edog37]

Yeah, the NHL owners are addicted to quick cash injections and it reads as kind of pathetic

name me one pro sports league that isn't addicted to money.

 

[StreetHawk]

If thew expansion fee is really a billion dollars or closer to 2bn, I doubt hell be interested. That would be a not insignificant portion of his net worth.

He can always sell a portion of the Nets which has jumped in value from the $2.35 million he paid for them in 2019. Suns sold at a $4 bill valuation in the past year. Bucks at $3.5 billion.

Figure Brooklyn is $4.5 - $5 billion at least. So, double his original purchase price valuation.

But, is a SD NHL team worth $2 billion in 5-6 years? Probably have to see what Anaheim is valued at as a comp in a few years.

At the $2 bill that Dreger reported says that the NHL is eying for their next expansion, it may take a few cities like Salt Lake, Portland, Milwaukee, etc. out of the mix. But, will see.
2020's have seen a skyrocketing of team valuations. A-Rod get the Timberwolves for $1.5 billion then within 3 years Milwaukee at $3.5 bill, Phx at $4 bill and Charlotte at $3 billion were sold.

 

[Brodie]

name me one pro sports league that isn't addicted to money.

No other major pro league has expanded in 20+ years meanwhile the NHL is out here hinting they want to go to 34 or 36 teams within 5 years of expanding twice

 

[edog37]

No other major pro league has expanded in 20+ years meanwhile the NHL is out here hinting they want to go to 34 or 36 teams within 5 years of expanding twice

Still haven’t answered my question. Do you think the NHL’s true purpose is to just grow the game? That’s a really naive point of view if you think that. Hell, the NCAA is even worse with conference realignment.

 

[Tawnos]

No other major pro league has expanded in 20+ years meanwhile the NHL is out here hinting they want to go to 34 or 36 teams within 5 years of expanding twice

The NHL has 6-7 more viable markets than any of the other leagues… at least if you’re keeping the restriction to US and Canada. The NHL also has the smallest US footprint of the 4. It makes sense they’d see opportunities the other leagues might not have.

 

[BKIslandersFan]

No other major pro league has expanded in 20+ years meanwhile the NHL is out here hinting they want to go to 34 or 36 teams within 5 years of expanding twice

NFL expanded to 32 long before NHL. And then NBA and MLB strongly hinted they will expand to 32.

And you think all of them will then tell themselves 32 is enough after that? Gimme a break man.

 

[aqib]

NFL expanded to 32 long before NHL. And then NBA and MLB strongly hinted they will expand to 32.

And you think all of them will then tell themselves 32 is enough after that? Gimme a break man.

If we set talent dilution aside (which I am not sure is an issue these days to be honest). I figure they could all go the 34-36 teams. The NFL could go to 40 if they include Europe. This is what I see the 4 major leagues being able to do:

The NBA could put teams in the following cities: Seattle, Vegas, Vancouver, San Diego, Louisville, and Montreal. Figure Memphis and New Orleans are relo candidates so thats 34 teams.

MLB could put teams in Montreal, Portland, Vegas, Nashville, and Charlotte. Figure 2 of those spots can be taken by Tampa and Oakland. So they could go to 34. Or 36 if you take those 5 cities and add Mexico City.

The NFL could put teams in San Antonio, St Louis, Mexico City, Toronto, plus 4 in Europe. Only Jacksonville is a relo candidate. There is probably at least one more North American city I am missing so that's 40 they could do.

The NHL could put teams in QC, Hamilton, Portland, Salt Lake City, and Houston. Arizona is an obvious relo candidate. Maybe Florida if last years attendance spike isn't sustained. so 36 is a reasonable number for them,

 

[StreetHawk]

All of those proposed expansion cities that Weekes tweeted about, each has their own arena situation and thus timeline. Which is probably why we are hearing about expansion only after 2 years since Seattle came into the NHL.

ATL group may be like SEA in that the city would ok their total project if/when they secure a pro team

HOU all on Fertitia's desires as the arena is ready. Think the terms of the Rockets agreement limit the ATL option given the distance it has be from the Toyota Center which is pretty centrally located.

POR it's still an estate ownership right now. So, that is an unknown what the next owner wants to do. $4 billion at least for Blazers and Moda Center. If the expansion fee is $2 bill, that pushes it to $6 bill for the Portland owner. Arena is like Houston, ready to go right away.

UTAH arena like the NBA one AZ, not NHL compatible. Opened in 1991, so either a massive reno or a new arena is needed. Not sure what the timeline is for the Jazz' owner and the lease with the arena.

SD, no NBA team to be concerned about. But, do need to determine if they follow Chase, Barclays, and other basketball only facilities or whether they pay extra to have it built to fit an NHL team.

 

[GKJ]

All of those proposed expansion cities that Weekes tweeted about, each has their own arena situation and thus timeline. Which is probably why we are hearing about expansion only after 2 years since Seattle came into the NHL.

ATL group may be like SEA in that the city would ok their total project if/when they secure a pro team

HOU all on Fertitia's desires as the arena is ready. Think the terms of the Rockets agreement limit the ATL option given the distance it has be from the Toyota Center which is pretty centrally located.

POR it's still an estate ownership right now. So, that is an unknown what the next owner wants to do. $4 billion at least for Blazers and Moda Center. If the expansion fee is $2 bill, that pushes it to $6 bill for the Portland owner. Arena is like Houston, ready to go right away.

UTAH arena like the NBA one AZ, not NHL compatible. Opened in 1991, so either a massive reno or a new arena is needed. Not sure what the timeline is for the Jazz' owner and the lease with the arena.

SD, no NBA team to be concerned about. But, do need to determine if they follow Chase, Barclays, and other basketball only facilities or whether they pay extra to have it built to fit an NHL team.

It’s very clear that while it’s not a long term thing, Ryan Smith is ready and willing to take a team any time the NHL is ready to give it to him in Salt Lake