Stafford vs. Frolik

[Aavco Cup]

Why do we need to constantly drag up the past?

 

[CaptainChef]

Currently 2/1 Frolic. Would have been 40/1 if Frolic had stayed a jet - this one's not even close

 

[SCP Guy]

One wanted to be here one didn't want to be here....so that makes it an easy choice.

Fro is a better player but it's not like he is carrying the flames to a cup...or a playoff spot for that matter so meh

 

[KingBogo]

One wanted to be here one didn't want to be here....so that makes it an easy choice.

Fro is a better player but it's not like he is carrying the flames to a cup...or a playoff spot for that matter so meh

And one was willing to take a 2 year deal, which IMO was most important. Stafford won't be around when this team is ready to contend so his contract works for the organization. Also IMO one of the most unfairly maligned Jet players. He is a lot closer to the top of the roster than the bottom.

 

[Skobel24]

Just looking at goals, Stafford has 8 more this year. He has a few more assists, too. I doubt Stafford's defensive liability, compared to Frolik, has cost the Jets that many points.

Frolik has played 10 less games.

 

[BigZ65]

And one was willing to take a 2 year deal, which IMO was most important. Stafford won't be around when this team is ready to contend so his contract works for the organization. Also IMO one of the most unfairly maligned Jet players. He is a lot closer to the top of the roster than the bottom.

Kind of a sad commentary on the roster more than anything. Stafford is a useful player for sure. If we had 3-4 veteran guys like him who could play different roles between the studs and the duds, we'd be a playoff team, kind of like 14-15.

 

[PerryPooley]

It still annoys me that Frolik wasn't re-signed, just as it annoys me that it is taking so long to sign Buff

 

[ps241]

Fro pretty easily for me, he his younger, better, and plugs in on any line. That being said Drew has been a pleasant suprise for me this season. At least he has provided secondary scoring which was the plan I assume.

 

[KCjetsfan]

I almost voted Stafford just because I couldn't have made it through another year of misspellings of 'frolic'. That's about the only way Stafford would win though.

 

[ATLbound]

Stafford for me in our case. He wanted to play here, and worked to get a deal done to stay here. Frolik didn't want to be here and jumped ship when he got the chance. I don't put the blame on Chevy on this one. Frolik wanted out of Winnipeg, it would have took us overpaying him. If we matched Calgarys offer, he still would have went to Calgary. Not to mention, Frolik is better on the PK and defensively. Stafford has more talent, and skill and is a better player to have in our top 6. If we had more talent here, then I would pick Frolik, but when your team lacks any real, true talent I am not worried about a 2 way depth player, I am worried about the guy who is going to score 25 goals for us....

This should not be in discussion though, I want both. If you pick one of the other, we are still missing a good piece

 

[GJF]

I almost voted Stafford just because I couldn't have made it through another year of misspellings of 'frolic'. That's about the only way Stafford would win though.

Good thing we're not voting on Meyers

 

[Say What]

Stafford for me. His term is what makes the difference.

With Perreault, Burmistrov, Armia/Petan and the 'future' prospects Cheveldayoff had to consider; Frolik's intangibles were going to be redundant in the long run.

I loved Frolik's game and wished we could've signed him, however not for 4 years at a premium price. Plus, Stafford is a goal scorer. Something this team needs more of going forward (albeit more elite).

As a bonus, if a prospect or two are ready when Stafford's contract is ending (an upgrade like Connor or the 2017 pick), you cut ties by moving him for more assets.

Cheveldayoff made the right choice by staying firm on the 'term' with Frolik. "...in some ways our offer was.......anyway we wish Michael the best "

Some look at the team through a magnifying glass, while others have to see it through binoculars.

I will say, I don't for a second believe this was his first choice. If Frolik had decided to stay, I think Stafford was gone, unless he signed for significantly less. Chevy seems to have better outcomes (eg. drafting) just fall into his lap.

 

[garret9]

Why do we need to constantly drag up the past?

 

[garret9]

Stafford for me in our case. He wanted to play here, and worked to get a deal done to stay here. Frolik didn't want to be here and jumped ship when he got the chance. I don't put the blame on Chevy on this one. Frolik wanted out of Winnipeg, it would have took us overpaying him. If we matched Calgarys offer, he still would have went to Calgary. Not to mention, Frolik is better on the PK and defensively. Stafford has more talent, and skill and is a better player to have in our top 6. If we had more talent here, then I would pick Frolik, but when your team lacks any real, true talent I am not worried about a 2 way depth player, I am worried about the guy who is going to score 25 goals for us....

This should not be in discussion though, I want both. If you pick one of the other, we are still missing a good piece

There is a lot of silly guessing going on here being presented as facts.

Stafford may have actually wanted to stay here less. Maybe the Jets just offered him more money than other places. After all, Stafford did hold out until he was officially a UFA.

Frolik may have chosen Jets if he was offered similar money. Frolik DID want to be here; he offered a multi year deal that Chevy didn't take the year prior.

I do not believe Stafford has more talent and do not believe him to be a better player in the top six, and goals and shots do not support your theory there either.

I think everyone scared about the term is being a bit crazy too. Frolik is going through his prime. He will finish his contract with the Flames at the same age Stafford was at when he signed his Jets extension.

 

[garret9]

Frolik AINEC.


Similar goal scoring.
Frolik better primary assist production.
Frolik better primary point production.
Frolik improves linemates shot production more.
Frolik improves linemates shot suppression more.
Frolik improves linemates shot differentials more.

Stafford is an okay PP2 option, which he gets over Frolik, but Frolik is a FAR better penalty killer, more so than Stafford is better PP option.

There is a huuuuuuge gap in performance between the two.

 

[JetsFan815]

Why do we need to constantly drag up the past?

https://www.historians.org/teaching-and-learning/why-study-history

“Historical knowledge is no more and no less than carefully and critically constructed collective memory. As such it can both make us wiser in our public choices and more richly human in our private lives.”

 

[JetsFan815]

I would even say on a scale of 1 to 10 in terms of offseason blunders, if letting Stempniak walk was a 6.5 then letting Frolik walk was an 8.5. Amazing it doesn't get more play on this board compared to all the Stempniak talk

 

[garret9]

I would even say on a scale of 1 to 10 in terms of offseason blunders, if letting Stempniak walk was a 6.5 then letting Frolik walk was an 8.5. Amazing it doesn't get more play on this board compared to all the Stempniak talk

To me I think the bigger thing was not going for the 4x4 that Frolik's camp offered Chevy the year prior. That covers Frolik for his 26-29 yo seasons.

I know some were thinking Chevy was worried Frolik was not worth it due to his value possibly being inflated by Ladd and Little, but there is ways to how likely that is.

The answer was not likely:
http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/rat...eamid=2&type=corsi&sort=PCTRelTM&sortdir=DESC

 

[YWGinYYZ]

https://www.historians.org/teaching-and-learning/why-study-history

“Historical knowledge is no more and no less than carefully and critically constructed collective memory. As such it can both make us wiser in our public choices and more richly human in our private lives.”

Because we posters are signing or not signing the deals?

I get why we'd want to remind management of their mistakes, but I believe that we're all fairly clear on the issues that have been presented at this point.

 

[garret9]

Because we posters are signing or not signing the deals?

I get why we'd want to remind management of their mistakes, but I believe that we're all fairly clear on the issues that have been presented at this point.

Yes, but it gets to the true point, discussion.

This is a discussion board so we discuss things. Learning what went wrong and right from the past is how we explain what should occur in the future.

1/3rd of the board has voted Stafford. There is a disagreement on whether it was truly a mistake. Hence more discussion on the topic.

 

[JetsFan815]

To me I think the bigger thing was not going for the 4x4 that Frolik's camp offered Chevy the year prior. That covers Frolik for his 26-29 yo seasons.

I know some were thinking Chevy was worried Frolik was not worth it due to his value possibly being inflated by Ladd and Little, but there is ways to how likely that is.

The answer was not likely:
http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/rat...eamid=2&type=corsi&sort=PCTRelTM&sortdir=DESC

Agreed 100%. Even if his numbers were being inflated by Little and Ladd which they obviously weren't, 4x4 for a player like him is still a great deal. Now we potentially have to wait years for a player to fill his shoes.

I have no idea what Chevy was thinking. I have noticed he tends to screw over his own good moves. Acquiring Frolik for cheap was a great move, acquiring all that depth at the deadline last season was a great move but then inexplicably he decided to squat and take a dump over his own good moves. If the trend follows then I am afraid for the Perrault contract renewal next season. Hopefully lessons have been learned

 

[YWGinYYZ]

Yes, but it gets to the true point, discussion.

This is a discussion board so we discuss things. Learning what went wrong and right from the past is how we explain what should occur in the future.

Okee dokee. Personally, I've made my thoughts known, and have done so for the past 8 months - you can even read them in this thread. I don't know that anyone who hasn't already been convinced will be convinced at this point, but knock yourself out.

1/3rd of the board has voted Stafford. There is a disagreement on whether it was truly a mistake. Hence more discussion on the topic.

I think letting Frolik walk was a mistake, but I don't think it was Stafford vs. Frolik. Personally, I had hoped that both were signed, for different reasons (and reasons you've brought up in the past regarding Stafford's plusses).

And good luck changing people's minds on this. I commend you for trying though.

 

[robertocarlos]

Stafford has always been streaky though.

 

[KingBogo]

Okee dokee. Personally, I've made my thoughts known, and have done so for the past 8 months - you can even read them in this thread. I don't know that anyone who hasn't already been convinced will be convinced at this point, but knock yourself out.



I think letting Frolik walk was a mistake, but I don't think it was Stafford vs. Frolik. Personally, I had hoped that both were signed, for different reasons (and reasons you've brought up in the past regarding Stafford's plusses).

And good luck changing people's minds on this. I commend you for trying though.

Agreed. I think most people realize it was never between Frolik and Stafford.

 

[garret9]

Stafford has always been streaky though.

Everyone is streaky though.
Just the less you score, the more streakier you appear... until you score so rarely that no one really notices it haha.