Stafford vs. Frolik

[Thai jet*]

Just my opinion, these 2 players are the biggest "on ice" difference between last year and this. This year's team does not have a goal scoring problem but a goals against one. There is in my mind a large differential in the 2-way play of Fro vs Staff. Stafford is too much a liability just as he was in Buffalo. I trade him @ the deadline with, if possible Thorburn, Ladd, Stu and Pavs. One or two decent LD would be nice in return.

 

[Puckatron 3000]

So I guess the take away is that most folks agree - Stafford is at least equal to, if not a superior player than Frolik.

/thread

 

[Board Bard]

So I guess the take away is that most folks agree - Stafford is at least equal to, if not a superior player than Frolik.

/thread

The poll at this moment is 65% in favour of Frolik, or almost 2:1 over Stafford. Don't see how that equates to equality or superiority for Stafford among most folks.

The sense I get from reading the comments is that both players have strengths, but that Frolik's are more positively impactful.

 

[Puckatron 3000]

I was trying to make a joke.
I thought it was funnier without the smiley. But yeah, without that maybe it wasn't so obvious.

You're right Board Board, definitely most prefer Frolik by a wide margin. Although it was nice to see a bit of appreciation for Stafford as well.

 

[Skidooboy]

It was Never Stafford vs Frolik. It's Frolik vs Burimistrov.

And As I have stated many times Burmi is an anchor.

 

[Puckatron 3000]

It was Never Stafford vs Frolik. It's Frolik vs Burimistrov.

Disagree. They would have taken Burmi either way, regardless of Fro.

Frolik and Stafford are both top 6 guys on the Jets. Burmi is not.

Frolik and Stafford are both 4+ mil AAV. Burmi is 1.55.

There's nothing to suggest it was ever Burmi vs. Fro, in terms of role on the team or cap management. Whereas there are a lot of comparable aspects in these areas with Stafford and Fro. 1 top 6 slot. 2 top 6 guys. Two relatively expensive contracts, and the Jets probably didn't have space for both, given their other future plans for the team.

Burmi is a non-factor in the Frolik (non-)contract.

 

[Skidooboy]

Disagree. They would have taken Burmi either way, regardless of Fro.

Frolik and Stafford are both top 6 guys on the Jets. Burmi is not.

Frolik and Stafford are both 4+ mil AAV. Burmi is 1.55.

There's nothing to suggest it was ever Burmi vs. Fro, in terms of role on the team or cap management. Whereas there are a lot of comparable aspects in these areas with Stafford and Fro. 1 top 6 slot. 2 top 6 guys. Two relatively expensive contracts, and the Jets probably didn't have space for both, given their other future plans for the team.

Burmi is a non-factor in the Frolik (non-)contract.

And I disagree entirely with you.

A big part of why Frolik wasn't signed was the hope that Burmi would develop into a strong 2 way forward who could kill and play ion the powerplay.

IIRC that was even a strong line of discussion from the "Stats guys" around these boards, the hope that Burmi was gonna be able to fill Fro's shoes.

where as the acquisition of Stafford was really an unforeseeable outcome of Kane's trade, which as you might recall, was a crisis that Chevy had tried to avoid for several years.

 

[Thai jet*]

Nope

It was Never Stafford vs Frolik. It's Frolik vs Burimistrov.

And As I have stated many times Burmi is an anchor.

Stafford vs Kane.
Burmi vs Halischuk & Galiardi

 

[Positive]

Not great in our own end, but I have to say that when he has the puck in the offensive zone, on the half-wall or behind the net, he's pretty good. You just sort of sense that something is going to happen. That he'll cycle it back and head to the net. Do that enough times, habitually and hey...goals!

 

[Puckatron 3000]

A big part of why Frolik wasn't signed was the hope that Burmi would develop into a strong 2 way forward who could kill and play ion the powerplay.

Where did you get this information from?

If it's just your opinion, fine. But like I said in my last post, that just doesn't jive with their AAV and role. I never heard anything from TNSE to indicate they expected him to play 6. Neither would there have been reason to believe he could - he wasn't exactly tearing it up in the KHL. Has Burmi even played top 6 once this year?

 

[Skidooboy]

Where did you get this information from?

If it's just your opinion, fine. But like I said in my last post, that just doesn't jive with their AAV and role. I never heard anything from TNSE to indicate they expected him to play 6. Neither would there have been reason to believe he could - he wasn't exactly tearing it up in the KHL. Has Burmi even played top 6 once this year?

The point is that Burmi was ALWAYS part of TNSE's plan. Secret meetings in Russia, PoMo's ability to "understand Russian Players". lots of press and discussion and questions about that. TNSE wanted to maximize that asset and bring him back from the KHL. Stats guys like Garret were all over Burmi, talking about his strong 2 way play(fancy stats) and how that could fill the hole Frolik left, for less money. Again, Staff was brought in to hopefully help replace Kane's numbers as part of a Multiplayer "emergency" trade. he was never "part of the plan".

once all the pieces were in place things changed. Burnmi sucked(as I repeatedly predicted) and fell down the depth chart. Staff played well and in fact is a better fit then Burmi ever will be.

 

[tbcwpg]

The point is that Burmi was ALWAYS part of TNSE's plan. Secret meetings in Russia, PoMo's ability to "understand Russian Players". lots of press and discussion and questions about that. TNSE wanted to maximize that asset and bring him back from the KHL. Stats guys like Garret were all over Burmi, talking about his strong 2 way play(fancy stats) and how that could fill the hole Frolik left, for less money. Again, Staff was brought in to hopefully help replace Kane's numbers as part of a Multiplayer "emergency" trade. he was never "part of the plan".

once all the pieces were in place things changed. Burnmi sucked(as I repeatedly predicted) and fell down the depth chart. Staff played well and in fact is a better fit then Burmi ever will be.

This all may be true, but it's also totally separate from Frolik.

Frolik wanted 5 years, Stafford took 2. Welcome back, Drew!

 

[Puckatron 3000]

The point is that Burmi was ALWAYS part of TNSE's plan. Secret meetings in Russia, PoMo's ability to "understand Russian Players". lots of press and discussion and questions about that. TNSE wanted to maximize that asset and bring him back from the KHL.

I agree with all of this.

Although that backs up my claim the Jets wanted both Burmi and Fro, not one or the other. Because until Frolik took the contract with the Flames, Chevy was definitely trying to sign him. There was an offer on the table. If he was simultaneously courting Burmi, then he was going after both.

Stats guys like Garret were all over Burmi, talking about his strong 2 way play(fancy stats) and how that could fill the hole Frolik left, for less money.

Gotcha.

I think you're combining parts of the real story (the actions of TNSE from your 1st quote above), and opinions of HFBoards posters (the stuff from your 2nd quote). Garret may have had good reason to believe what he did, he's a very smart guy. But that certainly doesn't mean that was TNSE's plan.

If TNSE followed Garret's advice, we'd have no Pavelec, no Stuart, no Thorburn, and probably no Peluso. We would have Stempniak. Oh, but Buff would probably be at forward. Garret has always advocated strongly for that. (*)

Again, Staff was brought in to hopefully help replace Kane's numbers as part of a Multiplayer "emergency" trade. he was never "part of the plan".

That's a reasonable thing to consider. But again, signing Burmi vs. Frolik vs. Stafford was a decision made last off-season. Stafford was already part of the picture at that point. Where he came from, or how we got him doesn't affect the decision you make with those players moving forward.

(*)

 

[Skidooboy]

I agree with all of this.

Although that backs up my claim the Jets wanted both Burmi and Fro, not one or the other. Because until Frolik took the contract with the Flames, Chevy was definitely trying to sign him. There was an offer on the table. If he was simultaneously courting Burmi, then he was going after both.



Gotcha.

I think you're combining parts of the real story (the actions of TNSE from your 1st quote above), and opinions of HFBoards posters (the stuff from your 2nd quote). Garret may have had good reason to believe what he did, he's a very smart guy. But that certainly doesn't mean that was TNSE's plan.

If TNSE followed Garret's advice, we'd have no Pavelec, no Stuart, no Thorburn, and probably no Peluso. Oh, but Buff would probably be at forward. Garret has always advocated strongly for that. (*)



That's a reasonable thing to consider. But again, signing Burmi vs. Frolik vs. Stafford was a decision made last off-season. Stafford was already part of the picture at that point. Where he came from, or how we got him doesn't affect the decision you make with those players moving forward.

(*)

yeah they tried to sign Frolik.... but they sure didn't go hard after him. if he's the player sooo many here believe him to be Chevy should have gone for Term and money, Lock Fro up.... but that wasn't what he did. Why? Because the Jets felt they had something in the pipeline to replace him. same thing with Staff. Short term fill in until one of our Draft & Develop guys is ready. so where did the Burmi, a strong 2 way player(supposedly) with skill and finish fit? po Mo and Chevy talked about him maturing, and changing as a player, being someone who could fit in....

 

[Puckatron 3000]

I agree Skidooboy that Chevy didn't go after Frolik very hard. I follow you that this is because Chevy felt Frolik was replaceable. I guess we can agree to disagree whether Chevy thought that replacement, for this season, was Burmi or Stafford. Sounds like we're both clinging on to our opinions on that pretty tight.

Pleasure yakkin' with ya.

 

[Skidooboy]

 

[Board Bard]

I dunno, given how Chevy was practically blubbering with dismay when he first talked about losing Frolik to the Flames, it seemed like he'd been going after him pretty hard. Had he tried harder the summer before (as in forcing the word "Yes" from his mouth), he could have saved himself some blubbering.