St. John's Ice Caps: 2014-15 Season - Part II

[CanWin]

it's still far to early for me to say we are 100% a great drafting team or not getting lucky.

We've only hade one non first round pick make the show (lowry) and we've also had one high pick completely wash out (lucas sutter). While you could say the odds are any pick where lucas sutter was taken isn't going to pan out, the odds are not that they play so badly they don't even receive an ELC.

Now of course it's early, and we've pretty much done as good as we could possibly hope. We certainly aren't trending down. Also byt he looks of the other organizational pieces we do "appear" to be trending up. We have lot of players with good comparisons etc, but it remains, some of those players don't pan out.

we really don't know if our guys will pan out or not until they do.

Essentially, i'm not saying we're just getting lucky, just that we're not gods.....yet....

of course, petan, kosmo, copp, hellbuyck, lipon, de leo, lodge, all look like very promising prospects outside of the first and within 2 years i expect to be able to say "yes, we really are a very good drafting team", they ain't made it till they made it.

There is, of course, that Hockey News cover. That settles it for me!

 

[Grind]

My standards are higher. I won't be happy/100℅ trusting until we've pulled at least one additional Lowry level player from each draft on top of our first.

 

[jetkarma*]

My standards are higher. I won't be happy/100℅ trusting until we've pulled at least one additional Lowry level player from each draft on top of our first.

Don't forget we've had a couple less second rounders .

 

[Grind]

Don't forget we've had a couple less second rounders .

Doesn't matter to me, that factors into it. They weren't stolen from us (I guess the first one was but we already got Lowry from that draft so its OK). The standard doesn't change because you traded away picks.

If one of kosmo or helly turns out 2012 is good. Then we just need petan /comrie/copp/kostalek to end up that good and I'll be resting easy.

Until then its all if's and should's and thats nothing to gamble on for me. Cautious optimism.

 

[Aavco Cup]

My standards are higher. I won't be happy/100℅ trusting until we've pulled at least one additional Lowry level player from each draft on top of our first.

League average is less than 2 NHL players per draft, around 1.5ish. Your expectations might be a bit high.

 

[jetkarma*]

Doesn't matter to me, that factors into it. They weren't stolen from us (I guess the first one was but we already got Lowry from that draft so its OK). The standard doesn't change because you traded away picks.

If one of kosmo or helly turns out 2012 is good. Then we just need petan /comrie/copp/kostalek to end up that good and I'll be resting easy.

Until then its all if's and should's and thats nothing to gamble on for me. Cautious optimism.

Of course it factors into it , we're talking about drafting accumen . The first one absolutey was not on the Jets for not having.

For you it's different and of course you're entitled to evaluate any way you decide , it doesn't mean it's correct.

For me it's an overall result , if you get two non firsts from one draft that matters , if you get three , that matters , while you don't want to not get one from one draft , to me it's the overall result that matters. Your saying if we don't get a player as good as Lowry from beyond round one every year the Jets are not a successful team at drafting.

Getting multiple NHL players after round one won't outweigh not getting a "Lowry" with each and every draft for you . That isn't the determining factor for me .

We totally disagree , and that's fine , just like you review what has happened as opposed to what you believe likely will . Different approaches .

 

[Grind]

League average is less than 2 NHL players per draft, around 1.5ish. Your expectations might be a bit high.

the praise our scouting and drafting gets by many around here is far above league average. What i put forth was what we would have to do for ME to be comfortable giving that level of praise, hence why it is so high.

 

[Grind]

Of course it factors into it , we're talking about drafting accumen . The first one absolutey was not on the Jets for not having.

For you it's different and of course you're entitled to evaluate any way you decide , it doesn't mean it's correct.

For me it's an overall result , if you get two non firsts from one draft that matters , if you get three , that matters , while you don't want to not get one from one draft , to me it's the overall result that matters. Your saying if we don't get a player as good as Lowry from beyond round one every year the Jets are not a successful team at drafting.

Getting multiple NHL players after round one won't outweigh not getting a "Lowry" with each and every draft for you . That isn't the determining factor for me .

We totally disagree , and that's fine , just like you review what has happened as opposed to what you believe likely will . Different approaches .

My post was poorly worded, having that success rate ON AVERAGE would be fine.

I would be a OK if neither kosmo or jelly turned out but both copp and kostalek (for example) did.

I just need to see that sort of success over 3-4 drafts to be as confident in our abilities as you and some others are.

As for the second... If hitting when your missing a second is "worth more" or is "more indicative of great drafting" then conversely hitting when you have additional second round picks must be "less indicative of great drafting" - not saying it isn't still a positive, but if hitting when you have less is worth more then hitting when you have more must be worth less (not worthless)

 

[mcpw]

As for the second... If hitting when your missing a second is "worth more" or is "more indicative of great drafting" then conversely hitting when you have additional second round picks must be "less indicative of great drafting" - not saying it isn't still a positive, but if hitting when you have less is worth more then hitting when you have more must be worth less (not worthless)

My brain just exploded reading that sentence.

But you're right. We have to expect more quantity out of the 2013 draft then out of, say, 2014.

 

[Grind]

My brain just exploded reading that sentence.

But you're right. We have to expect more quantity out of the 2013 draft then out of, say, 2014.

Its tricky to word and spell out the logic in a straightforward way but yah, that's essentially it.

Personally since were never going to take the time to look at how many picks other "good drafting" teams had I find it best to Ignore picks per year on a macro level and assume it comes out in the wash. The 2 players/year rule stands regardless if you do it through excellent scouting or brute force(having tonnes of picks every year)

 

[Hobby Bull]

My post was poorly worded, having that success rate ON AVERAGE would be fine.

I would be a OK if neither kosmo or jelly turned out but both copp and kostalek (for example) did.

I just need to see that sort of success over 3-4 drafts to be as confident in our abilities as you and some others are.

As for the second... If hitting when your missing a second is "worth more" or is "more indicative of great drafting" then conversely hitting when you have additional second round picks must be "less indicative of great drafting" - not saying it isn't still a positive, but if hitting when you have less is worth more then hitting when you have more must be worth less (not worthless)

Of course you're right, Grind, you only really know how well you've done after the fact.

But with time on our hands we "hang out" here and guess.

I've done a lot of "hanging out" on other teams boards, and I spend time looking at their prospects. Many teams have virtually none. Draft and develop is not as universal as it would seem. Trade and make it work today is another approach.

Time will tell...

 

[ps241]

Its tricky to word and spell out the logic in a straightforward way but yah, that's essentially it.

Personally since were never going to take the time to look at how many picks other "good drafting" teams had I find it best to Ignore picks per year on a macro level and assume it comes out in the wash. The 2 players/year rule stands regardless if you do it through excellent scouting or brute force(having tonnes of picks every year)

One of the things I do from time to time is go to HockeyDB.com and they have a really user friendly site for viewing teams draft history by year. It is really depressing how few drafted players make it even from good teams. One thing becomes obvious with even minimum amount of time on the site, skill and luck both play big parts in projecting how kids will turn out in 3 or 4 seasons.

 

[Bob E]

One of the things I do from time to time is go to HockeyDB.com and they have a really user friendly site for viewing teams draft history by year. It is really depressing how few drafted players make it even from good teams. One thing becomes obvious with even minimum amount of time on the site, skill and luck both play big parts in projecting how kids will turn out in 3 or 4 seasons.

Yup. Not an easy task.

 

[Aavco Cup]

Anyone know anything about this guy?


@cgballardsports: Newly signed Andrew Panzarella on the ice at practice this morning. In team photo before he had a single practice. #IceCapsInsider

@cgballardsports: North Dakota grad is a right-handed D man, wearing number 23. #IceCapsInsider

@cgballardsports: Washington, D.C. Native signed an ATO. Set for first taste of the pros. #IceCapsInsider

 

[Whileee]

Anyone know anything about this guy?


@cgballardsports: Newly signed Andrew Panzarella on the ice at practice this morning. In team photo before he had a single practice. #IceCapsInsider

@cgballardsports: North Dakota grad is a right-handed D man, wearing number 23. #IceCapsInsider

@cgballardsports: Washington, D.C. Native signed an ATO. Set for first taste of the pros. #IceCapsInsider

Maybe there to take a bit of heat off Lipon....

654 PIM in 216 USHL games.

http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=37848

 

[Aavco Cup]

 

[HannuJ]

^^ I've never seen anyone look like that when they take a slapper.

Shaun Cronin v2.0.
Hope this dude can at least stand on his skates

 

[Aavco Cup]

Is Budaj gonna play center?

@cgballardsports: Budaj just took a few faceoffs against Balisy. Guy's got a quick stick! #IceCapsInsider

 

[IceCapsFanNL]

Hi guys,

Sorry to hear about the loss last night, get 'em next game.

Tonight will be my last night at an Icecaps/Jets game. I'll give you a report on the newer players later tonight or tomorrow.

While I am delighted we will have two, and probably three more AHL years, and I am optimistic past that point, I will miss the affiliation. TNSE are certainly an organization on the way up, and it was fun being part of it. I'll follow the Moose next year, might even listen to a game or two.

I doubt the Moose will play the IceCaps, maybe in the Calder Cup finals. Go Jets/Moose/IceCaps

 

[CorgisPer60]

Hi guys,

Sorry to hear about the loss last night, get 'em next game.

Tonight will be my last night at an Icecaps/Jets game. I'll give you a report on the newer players later tonight or tomorrow.

While I am delighted we will have two, and probably three more AHL years, and I am optimistic past that point, I will miss the affiliation. TNSE are certainly an organization on the way up, and it was fun being part of it. I'll follow the Moose next year, might even listen to a game or two.

I doubt the Moose will play the IceCaps, maybe in the Calder Cup finals. Go Jets/Moose/IceCaps

Agreed. For what it's worth, I liked the kinship we felt with St. John's as two hockey-mad markets equally spurned by powers beyond our controls. One thing I will miss is having fans of the TEAM giving us their takes on what's going on, because what I fear now is fans of the prospects giving us their take, and that's already a pretty insular bunch on this board.

 

[ps241]

Hi guys,

Sorry to hear about the loss last night, get 'em next game.

Tonight will be my last night at an Icecaps/Jets game. I'll give you a report on the newer players later tonight or tomorrow.

While I am delighted we will have two, and probably three more AHL years, and I am optimistic past that point, I will miss the affiliation. TNSE are certainly an organization on the way up, and it was fun being part of it. I'll follow the Moose next year, might even listen to a game or two.

I doubt the Moose will play the IceCaps, maybe in the Calder Cup finals. Go Jets/Moose/IceCaps

Yea back at you. I really enjoyed the relationship between fan bases and think that St John's is a great hockey market. I am thrilled you guys are getting another team because your fan base deserves it and if we were moving our team and leaving you high and dry I would feel brutal. I wish the Ice Caps could have got the ball into the end zone last year and brought the Cup to the Rock but it was a great run to be a part of.

Good luck to you and all the other boys with your new affiliation.

 

[CanWin]

Hi guys,

Sorry to hear about the loss last night, get 'em next game.

Tonight will be my last night at an Icecaps/Jets game. I'll give you a report on the newer players later tonight or tomorrow.

While I am delighted we will have two, and probably three more AHL years, and I am optimistic past that point, I will miss the affiliation. TNSE are certainly an organization on the way up, and it was fun being part of it. I'll follow the Moose next year, might even listen to a game or two.

I doubt the Moose will play the IceCaps, maybe in the Calder Cup finals. Go Jets/Moose/IceCaps

I hope the Ice Caps go on an absolute tear next year to give you an lother season of great hockey like the year before this one. You guys were awesome at giving us updates on the younguns. You were thoroughly to be trusted as babysitters with the kids. It would be great to meet you again in the finals, but I don't want to presume. All the best going forward.

 

[Atoyot]

Comrie in net again. Panzarella makes his debut on forward (played D for UND when he was in the line-up I believe), still no Lodge or Blomqvist. Starting to doubt they'll get their debuts this season. They're likely more concerned about seeing the "maybe" guys for next season than they are the new kids who will be on the team one way or another.

 

[surixon]

Comrie in net again. Panzarella makes his debut on forward (played D for UND when he was in the line-up I believe), still no Lodge or Blomqvist. Starting to doubt they'll get their debuts this season. They're likely more concerned about seeing the "maybe" guys for next season than they are the new kids who will be on the team one way or another.

Comrie stops 32 of 35 and was named first star in a 4-3 SO win. Looks like he may be ready to pose a challenge to Helly for starts next year in the A.

 

[IceCapsFanNL]

I'd agree,

He was solid tonight. Team played well all around. Jaffs was on wheels all night, Albert and Riley showed why they are fan favourites. I liked Armia's game.

A question, what is Mechiori's contract status. He had more turnovers than the Pillsbury dough boy. He was the only player I noticed mailing it in. I found him real solid last season, he has looked frustrated a lot this year.