Spring 2016 Prospect Poll: #5

[Chainshot]

It's part of the valuation process -- is someone closer, and if so what is their ceiling or floor as a pro? What is their likelihood of making it, even to their floor?

For me, the grade on proximity is the push on Ullmark over Petersen. Ullmark's injury recovery has been very encouraging and while he wasn't great in his duty after Lehner came in, there were some very encouraging things there.

As for skill guys, if it was purely based on scoring numbers, Estephan would have run away with the poll. But it isn't. There are any number of factors to consider and each person can weigh what they like more or less heavily than someone else.

 

[Ruckus007]

On an unrelated note, I can't believe how many people are voting for Schaller when a guy like Dupuy is still on the board. As a 25 year old he's shown very limited ability to stick at the NHL level, and if he does he's at best a 4th line centre/13 forward.

Well, adds aren't the same as voting for the poll.


Do you see Dupuy as being more than a 4th liner/13th forward?

 

[stokes84]

On an unrelated note, I can't believe how many people are voting for Schaller when a guy like Dupuy is still on the board. As a 25 year old he's shown very limited ability to stick at the NHL level, and if he does he's at best a 4th line centre/13 forward.

I'm glad you think it's funny, but the kid WILL be in the NHL within three to four years barring a major setback. It's pretty much a slam dunk with his skill set. The kid went from high school hockey to playing against the best players in his age group in the world, and not only held his own, but was a standout. He's got the goods.

 

[CrazyPsycho]

I went carrier, but alot of guys could fit here....add schaller

 

[dire wolf]

Baptiste. Add Cat. (Yes, I switched my add from Florentino)

 

[sabrebuild]

His handle is sooooo strong. Like, you don't see stronger handles. All other handles are losers. His handle is a winner. You don't even know about how strong his his handle is.

Too bad we can't just behindthenet.ca it though.

It's weird cuz I didn't ask you sny analytics, since I know you don't care about that.

Instead I asked you what your eyes told you about his game, because sure fire nhler is pretty high praise for a teenager, so I assumed you have watched him a lot and had an opinion on his game.

Was that offensive? Why such a rude response to a hockey question? Was handle a word you don't understand? I meant stick handling, you know his calm under pressure? Something important to a young dman... weird response stokes

 

[Jame]

I like him. I actually have him projecting as a nhl dman with a ceiling as a 2nd pairing guy.


He is not a sure fire nhler. He's not even a sure fire ahler yet

Where's Borgen on your board/measure?

He's tied with Olofsson at 6th for me

Are we calling 19 year old 4th round picks sure fire NHLers now?

Interesting factoid about Borgen. The Sabres were going to draft Dennis Gilbert (Chicago took him right before our Borgen pick).

 

[stokes84]

It's weird cuz I didn't ask you sny analytics, since I know you don't care about that.

Instead I asked you what your eyes told you about his game, because sure fire nhler is pretty high praise for a teenager, so I assumed you have watched him a lot and had an opinion on his game.

Was that offensive? Why such a rude response to a hockey question? Was handle a word you don't understand? I meant stick handling, you know his calm under pressure? Something important to a young dman... weird response stokes

A. You could do this to every other poster. You didn't. You are being a smart ass.

B. Your questions revolved around coachable aspects of his game. It's a waste of time.

C. We all got to see the kid at the WJC. Draw your own conclusions. I haven't sought SC St. games. I don't need to. I saw him play against his peers in the hardest Junior tournament in the world and crush it.

 

[vcv]

A. You could do this to every other poster. You didn't. You are being a smart ass.

B. Your questions revolved around coachable aspects of his game. It's a waste of time.

C. We all got to see the kid at the WJC. Draw your own conclusions. I haven't sought SC St. games. I don't need to. I saw him play against his peers in the hardest Junior tournament in the world and crush it.

If you don't want to want to participate in the discussion seriously and would rather just be a smart ass, then I encourage you to simply not participate at all.

Please, everyone, let's not waste time with petty crap and focusing on agendas. Focus on debating the players and criteria.

 

[Jame]

If most people are putting more weight into how close a guy is then this poll should be for who is the closest to making the NHL, not who the best prospect is.

Some of us choose to base our rankings on a mix of both. The quality / value / rank of a prospect is not solely their talent/ceiling/floor or our personal projection of their future or their current stage of development. It's all of that combined

 

[Samsonite23]

I have Cal here and Baptiste and Borgen as the next two. Cal has been playing very well for a long time now.

Edit: Forgot. Add Cat

 

[kenfury]

Add Dupuy

 

[ZemgusWho]

Baptiste...

...and I'm sensing I might be on +Florentino island by myself. Physical d-man, playing on a good team, has made some big plays in big games, like the national championship last year? Anyway, I'm hoping he forgoes his senior year after the Friars season and we get to see him in Rochester. I think he's a way better prospect, but I hear you if you're saying he's still a couple years away.

But hey, I'm a potential guy on these polls more than I'm a "how close they are" guy. Hence why I'd rank Petersen above Linus, though Linus I think could contribute now.

 

[WpgBuffan]

Some of us choose to base our rankings on a mix of both. The quality / value / rank of a prospect is not solely their talent/ceiling/floor or our personal projection of their future or their current stage of development. It's all of that combined

I agree with this as well but to me the only reason Ulmark won the last poll was because of how much closer he is to making it.

 

[Chainshot]

Baptiste...

...and I'm sensing I might be on +Florentino island by myself. Physical d-man, playing on a good team, has made some big plays in big games, like the national championship last year? Anyway, I'm hoping he forgoes his senior year after the Friars season and we get to see him in Rochester. I think he's a way better prospect, but I hear you if you're saying he's still a couple years away.

But hey, I'm a potential guy on these polls more than I'm a "how close they are" guy. Hence why I'd rank Petersen above Linus, though Linus I think could contribute now.

I wanted more from him this year, in limited viewing. Teasing with all of those abilities, want to see it all together. I still think of Reed Larson when I see him -- stocky build, big shot, some rugged play... and leaves me wanting more.

 

[sabrebuild]

A. You could do this to every other poster. You didn't. You are being a smart ass.

B. Your questions revolved around coachable aspects of his game. It's a waste of time.

C. We all got to see the kid at the WJC. Draw your own conclusions. I haven't sought SC St. games. I don't need to. I saw him play against his peers in the hardest Junior tournament in the world and crush it.

No one else made such an absolute claim about a player who is a boy still. So I asked you why to better understand why you said that. Such a question is the heart of conversation.

My questions revolved around his game. His handle for example is not a coachable issue. If he lobs grenades now because pressure is on him, he will lob grenades in the future.

My questions were all things that one would want to know about a player to help project their future skill set. They are the opposite of a waste of time when evaluating a player.

I find it fascinating that you think seeing him in one tournament, which is basically an all star game for an extreme short period of time, gives you not just the confidence to say what you did, but also the indignation when asked why. As if your word is beyond reproach.

Simply put, why be on a discussion board anout hockey if you just want to make statements and not discuss the merits of said statements.

It's just weird, like going to a book club, telling the group this book is the best book ever, and then getting pissed when someone asks you why you think that.

Btw, anytime you see me make a specific comment about a player's performance, I would be happy to discuss it with whoever asks, because you know, I like talking about hockey. Strange I know.

 

[My Cozen Dylan]

Baptiste add Kasdorf

 

[ottawah]

I went with Peterson here. What's the story with Baptiste? 44 games played- looks like he missed some time, but not so much that those numbers shouldn't be better.

He missed about 3 weeks. He was 2nd on the team in goals and 3rd in points when he went out, so the progress was there, just set back due to injury.

Did anyone hear what it was? Hopefulyl not shoulder again as that has bene his problem area.

 

[Husko]

On an unrelated note, I can't believe how many people are voting for Schaller when a guy like Dupuy is still on the board. As a 25 year old he's shown very limited ability to stick at the NHL level, and if he does he's at best a 4th line centre/13 forward.

Eh. I see them as having the same ceiling. Schaller is just more of a sure thing because he's pretty much already there. I have them similarly ranked, but Schaller a little higher.

 

[Husko]

Where's Borgen on your board/measure?

He's tied with Olofsson at 6th for me

Are we calling 19 year old 4th round picks sure fire NHLers now?

Interesting factoid about Borgen. The Sabres were going to draft Dennis Gilbert (Chicago took him right before our Borgen pick).

I have him 13th. That's mostly because, IMO, he still has an incredibly low floor and he's incredibly far away. If he keeps playing well and progressing he should move up into my top 10 in due time.


And the irony of Storkes complaining about someone being too low due to where they were drafted just dawned on me.

 

[NotABadPeriod]

I've got Peterson next followed by Borgen. His trajectory has been amazing. But let's not kid ourselves, he's probably going to follow the same path as most college D-men, which means time in the AHL.

Add Schaller.

 

[Dingo44]

Seems like there is a lot of arguing about speculation on HF about who ranks where in our prospect ranks.

We honestly have no idea who will have the biggest impact to the Sabres, who will be moved out, who will flop, etc. And it's not like Tim Murray or anyone else connected with the Sabres reads or uses these things. They're just for fun.

I get as emotional as anyone about this team but I'm not going to get too worked up if someone likes Olofsson over Borgen or vice-versa.

 

[Jame]

I have him 13th. That's mostly because, IMO, he still has an incredibly low floor and he's incredibly far away. If he keeps playing well and progressing he should move up into my top 10 in due time.


And the irony of Storkes complaining about someone being too low due to where they were drafted just dawned on me.

i moved his talent/ceiling up a half a point due to WJC. Still maintaining the low floor, and moderate projection. But that talent/ceiling accounts for 50% of my total)

 

[Husko]

i moved his talent/ceiling up a half a point due to WJC. Still maintaining the low floor, and moderate projection. But that talent/ceiling accounts for 50% of my total)

I have his ceiling as a 2nd pairing D and his expectation as a 3rd pairing D. The issue is floor I have a 3, which is average AHL player and his development a 5, because he has at least one more year in college before even getting to the AHL. Gives him a total score of 5.75. That, FWIW, has him within half a point of the 7 prospects ahead of him.

If, for example, he could just sell me of having a floor as a borderline NHLer, and I gave him a 5 in the floor category, that would catapult him all the way to a three-way tie for 9th with Cornell and Martin.

 

[Zman5778]

This whole Petersen/Baptiste/Carrier/Borgen group is CLOSE for me.

I'll give Petersen the nod b/c I think his ceiling is highest of anyone in that group.

Add Schaller.