News Article: Spector: Oilers held hostage by their past

[CantHaveTkachev]

You’re right, let’s keep the current bad one because the next bad one might be bad too.
Actually, you have a point. If they’d have kept Tambo and he had sat on his hands all this time, we might have a better team.

It beats the hell out of trading off assets for pennies on the dollar.

the Chiarelli thread to cry in is right here:
http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/firechia-whoever.2407629/page-397
post the same tired, repetitive garbage there

 

[McDNicks17]

no, but that's not the point of the article is it?

are you telling me Katz has been a good owner thus far?

The point of the article was to push blame onto some mythical council based on nothing but loose speculation instead of the actual idiots in charge.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

If the point isn’t why the Oilers’ suck, then who cares?
The point of the article is too distract from the real issues.

because it pertains to our owner the same one who's had this team in the bottom 10 every year he's owned the team except one

 

[McDNicks17]

I don't even mind Chia.

I'd probably be willing to give him another season with a different coach, but it's pretty obvious that he's done more to hurt this team than Wayne and the boys.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

The point of the article was to push blame onto some mythical council based on nothing but loose speculation instead of the actual idiots in charge.

he's not pushing blame onto them at all...he's saying the OBC has major sway with the owner and that causes dysfunction if he begins to listen to them and not allow the GM to do his job...no matter who the GM is, he deserves full-autonomy

choose to ignore if you like but Spector isn't making up names like "Red Wine Summit"

 

[McDNicks17]

he's not pushing blame onto them at all...he's saying the OBC has major sway with the owner and that causes dysfunction if he begins to listen to them and not allow the GM to do his job...no matter who the GM is, he deserves full-autonomy

choose to ignore if you like but Spector isn't making up names like "Red Wine Summit"

It's just such a silly basis for an article.

There might be a power struggle because the Old Boys might get together and scheme and they might have Katz's ear, so he might be doomed if he possibly listens to them.

It's not hard to string enough mights, maybes and ifs together to make something sound scarier than the actual things you should be scared of(Chia, McLellan).

 

[Raoul Duke]

the Chiarelli thread to cry in is right here:
http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/firechia-whoever.2407629/page-397
post the same tired, repetitive garbage there

Why so hostile?

Determining if the boys on the bus are wrecking this organization IS the point of discussion, so suggesting it’s not them, it’s management is relevant. It just doesn’t agree with your take.

There is no evidence of Chiarelli being interfered with other than the Paul Coffey hire. The same source, Spec, said the OBC wanted TMac gone.
He’s not.

So what are they really controlling?

Also, were the 80s boys the only ones who wanted TMac out?
Were they wrong?

 

[Raoul Duke]

because it pertains to our owner the same one who's had this team in the bottom 10 every year he's owned the team except one

Yeah, because we suck. If we were winning who would care?
There’s no evidence of Chia’s moves being dictated by anyone. They correlate with his history.

I agree with you. They should be purged. No question. Long overdue.

I think there are bigger things to deal with and the OBC is fairly inconsequential.

Furthermore, all that’s actually mentioned is members of the Oilers organization suggesting change as the ship was taking on water.
Is that really wrong?

 

[I am the Liquor]

If the point isn’t why the Oilers’ suck, then who cares?
The point of the article is too distract from the real issues.

On the contrary, the ‘real’ issue is the owner. Always has been, always will be. How many guys have to be fired for this to be clear? What did Chia or McClellan have to do with missing the playoffs for ten straight years? Yet ‘they’ are the problem?

Pffft.

 

[FunkyChicken]

The point of the article was to push blame onto some mythical council based on nothing but loose speculation instead of the actual idiots in charge.

Pretty much summed it up right there.

We didn't suck because we kept getting fleeced on trades, have no team speed, below average defense and no top six wingers.
We sucked because of Paul Coffey (coming in after the season was already lost), the Illuminati and maybe an assistant coach or two.

#Chiaccountability

 

[Raoul Duke]

On the contrary, the ‘real’ issue is the owner. Always has been, always will be. How many guys have to be fired for this to be clear? What did Chia or McClellan have to do with missing the playoffs for ten straight years? Yet ‘they’ are the problem?

Pffft.

They were at the wheel for two of them.

Of course Katz is the problem. Not sure how to get rid of him.
If it were up to me, I’d fire the whole group and rebuild the management structure.
Of course, it would still be Katz’s people so...

What’s your solution?
Maybe you and I should buy the team! I can afford a few grand and I got about $245.63 on me. Can you pitch in the rest?

 

[Raoul Duke]

Pretty much summed it up right there.

We didn't suck because we kept getting fleeced on trades, have no team speed, below average defense and no top six wingers.
We sucked because of Paul Coffey (coming in after the season was already lost), the Illuminati and maybe an assistant coach or two.

#Chiaccountability

Don’t forget Hall, he’s gotta wear some of the blame.

 

[McDNicks17]

Don’t forget Hall, he’s gotta wear some of the blame.

I think it's more Barzal's fault.

Spector was on fire in that article.

 

[Raoul Duke]

I think it's more Barzal's fault.

Spector was on fire in that article.

Chia knew he’d have character issues. Figured he’d trade the pick. Cut out the middle man.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

Why so hostile?

Determining if the boys on the bus are wrecking this organization IS the point of discussion, so suggesting it’s not them, it’s management is relevant. It just doesn’t agree with your take.

There is no evidence of Chiarelli being interfered with other than the Paul Coffey hire. The same source, Spec, said the OBC wanted TMac gone.
He’s not.

So what are they really controlling?

Also, were the 80s boys the only ones who wanted TMac out?
Were they wrong?

who cares if they are wrong? why should we trust them to make the right decision?
if they fired Chiarelli tomorrow, would you trust them to make the right decision on the next GM hire?

 

[BigFuzzyDice]

since Katz owned the team, we've drafted Top 10 every single year but one...thats all the evidence needed they're the root of the problem

Yep. He’s hired bad managers.
Including the current one.

Seems they initially accomplished exactly what they set out to do. The decision was made by the organization to bolt together a panzer with nic heavyboozin in net and build through the draft. The whole intent was to construct a bad team, and convince the paying public the shit sammy was really peanut butter. but if you kept buying them next year it'd be fried banana and peanut butter. mission accomplished. You can't say they where bad as managers when the intent was to be bad. Failure would have built competent teams and been on the bubble or worse yet for the organizational plan, firmly in the playoffs. They where window dressing for operation f up. or success through failure, an idiots guide.

They tried to turn this thing up river a couple of times. the craigs on it years. Ugh If he had made one bold move in his time here that was a team that really was close. at any time in the last 5 years or so had they done a deal hall for oel the trajectory of the team is far different. Jultz doesn't drown, maybe doobie rides it out. When he said he wasn't patient there was hope something big was cooking but it was epic failure.

I'd say Katz meddled in his first years not only because it was a new toy but also because he was politic'ing the city and northlands. We know there was the rumored feud where Katz told northlands they'd never see another playoff game (they didn't) and i almost wonder if craigs inaction was because the new barn was a year behind from the approval process. Did a forced delay cost him his gm job and win us mcdavid. I think the management/katz where perfectly content to stockpile assets and just ride it out till they had the new barn But you'd think after winning the golden ticket and hiring fresh hockey operations staff he would get hands off on the game side of things other than to take the props for last year or express his displeasure with the fact they were terrible this year. Giving his buddies back office jobs away from the actual hockey is what billionaires are entitled to do i guess.

It's an onion...

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

Yeah, because we suck. If we were winning who would care?
There’s no evidence of Chia’s moves being dictated by anyone. They correlate with his history.

his history also indicates his teams win a lot of hockey games

I agree with you. They should be purged. No question. Long overdue.

I think there are bigger things to deal with and the OBC is fairly inconsequential.

Furthermore, all that’s actually mentioned is members of the Oilers organization suggesting change as the ship was taking on water.
Is that really wrong?

again, you trust them to make the right decision with the changes?

 

[Raoul Duke]

his history also indicates his teams win a lot of hockey games

Yep. Short term success.
Won a cup.
Finals another time.
Followed by a drop off and cap hell.
Where do you think we are in that time line?

You know who else took his team to the finals for some short term success?
Kevin Lowe.

 

[Raoul Duke]

his history also indicates his teams win a lot of hockey games


again, you trust them to make the right decision with the changes?

I’d like them to purge management.
I’ve stated this.
Not sure what you’re looking for from me here.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

Yep. Short term success.
Won a cup.
Finals another time.
Followed by a drop off and cap hell.
Where do you think we are in that time line?

You know who else took his team to the finals for some short term success?
Kevin Lowe.

short term success? after they won the Cup they made it to another Cup final and won another President trophy
btw, the players he's picked are having an impact right now...Pastrnak and Krug are decent players

 

[I am the Liquor]

They were at the wheel for two of them.

Of course Katz is the problem. Not sure how to get rid of him.
If it were up to me, I’d fire the whole group and rebuild the management structure.
Of course, it would still be Katz’s people so...

What’s your solution?
Maybe you and I should buy the team! I can afford a few grand and I got about $245.63 on me. Can you pitch in the rest?

My only solution is acceptance. I don't let it bother me anymore. I find other things to do. I still watch when I can, because I'm a lifelong fan (and I'm pretty old) and because of McDavid

But if I miss a game or games, I check the scores and maybe check the hilights, but I don't worry too much about it. Its not that big a priority.

That's all I got.

I mean, we've been talking about the futility of this team for ten years now. We've wanted most of the coaches and all of the GM's fired. Yet there are some constants. Katz, Lowe, you can throw Crapt in there. That's the root of the problem. Everything else are just symptoms.

 

[rboomercat90]

Yep. Short term success.
Won a cup.
Finals another time.
Followed by a drop off and cap hell.
Where do you think we are in that time line?

You know who else took his team to the finals for some short term success?
Kevin Lowe.

Two months of Kevin Lowe success equals several years of Chiarelli success? You’re really reaching here.

 

[Raoul Duke]

My only solution is acceptance. I don't let it bother me anymore. I find other things to do. I still watch when I can, because I'm a lifelong fan (and I'm pretty old) and because of McDavid

But if I miss a game or games, I check the scores and maybe check the hilights, but I don't worry too much about it. Its not that big a priority.

That's all I got.

I mean, we've been talking about the futility of this team for ten years now. We've wanted most of the coaches and all of the GM's fired. Yet there are some constants. Katz, Lowe, you can throw Crapt in there. That's the root of the problem. Everything else are just symptoms.

Can’t disagree with any of that.
I watch diligently early in the season and fall into the routine you described as the inevitable becomes apparent.
McDavid is always worth watching, though.

The acceptance thing is kind of my point, not much you can do about a bad owner.
Your spin, I guess is why worry about the GM when the emperor has no clothes.
I really have no argument for that.
Other than it’s depressing.

 

[Raoul Duke]

Two months of Kevin Lowe success equals several years of Chiarelli success? You’re really reaching here.

You’re right.
Chara didn’t walk away.
But this isn’t the place for that conversation.

 

[Raoul Duke]

short term success? after they won the Cup they made it to another Cup final and won another President trophy
btw, the players he's picked are having an impact right now...Pastrnak and Krug are decent players

K.
You win.
Chia’s great.
The team’s fine other than that the Coffey hire, that is.
Damn OBC.