News Article: Spector: Oilers held hostage by their past

[BigFuzzyDice]

How about Wayne? Can you tell me something he actually did well while in Arizona?

Lose money, Lots and lots of money... In fact if it wasn't for expansion and the league back dooring him a bunch of bucks to make gretz "whole" again he'd still be pissed off and not participating in the league even as an ambassador.

Duhatschek: NHL finally does right by Gretzky with settlement agreement

 

[guymez]

Some actual facts and use of logic would go a long way in changing my mind.

Haven't seen any of the former and very little of the latter in this thread.


I think the funniest thing in all this for me was pointed out by someone else earlier in the thread and conveniently glossed over.

Spector says the Old Boys don't like McLellan and want him gone, yet McLellan still has his job.

How much control do they have?

So...you arent willing to give any credibility to the multiple reports that the OBC are making decisions behind the scenes but yet you are more than willing to cite Stauffer.

How does that work?

 

[shoop]

So...you arent willing to give any credibility to the multiple reports that the OBC are making decisions behind the scenes but yet you are more than willing to cite Stauffer.

How does that work?

I think the question about the OBC not liking McLellan, yet McLellan still has a job is pretty critical.

Sure we can give these mulitple reports credibility. What about the OBC and McLellan? You'd think the group really running the Oilers would have power over the head coach hiring/firing.

 

[guymez]

I think the question about the OBC not liking McLellan, yet McLellan still has a job is pretty critical.

Sure we can give these mulitple reports credibility. What about the OBC and McLellan? You'd think the group really running the Oilers would have power over the head coach hiring/firing.

I dont think that there is any way to know. Thats really the issue here IMO.

Katz has created an unofficial hierarchical structure that is so murky its impossible to tell who is ultimately accountable.

 

[shoop]

I dont think that there is any way to know. Thats really the issue here IMO.

Katz has created an unofficial hierarchical structure that is so murky its impossible to tell who is ultimately accountable.

There is no crediblity with any of it really. I wouldn't be surprised if the head coaching position is a battle between the OBC and Chiarelli. Hopefully Chia doesn't fight and win a battle to keep Koala to start next season just to spite the OBC.

 

[rboomercat90]

There is no crediblity with any of it really. I wouldn't be surprised if the head coaching position is a battle between the OBC and Chiarelli. Hopefully Chia doesn't fight and win a battle to keep Koala to start next season just to spite the OBC.

The whole thing is a mess. It was described as a story with no heroes and only villains. I think that’s pretty accurate. It wouldn’t surprise me if Chiarelli wants to keep Mclellan around just because he’s a number on his side. It certainly can’t be because he thinks he’s a good coach, can it? Man, we’re screwed. I wish Katz would fire everybody and start fresh.

 

[shoop]

The whole thing is a mess. It was described as a story with no heroes and only villains. I think that’s pretty accurate. It wouldn’t surprise me if Chiarelli wants to keep Mclellan around just because he’s a number on his side. It certainly can’t be because he thinks he’s a good coach, can it? Man, we’re screwed. I wish Katz would fire everybody and start fresh.

Good theory on Chiarelli needing an ally. I really wonder if Nicholson is going to be the final decision maker here. It seems like a choice has to be made. OBC or Chia/McLellan. I pray it isn't the OBC, but if it is they might as well stay internal for the new coach and GM.

After another brutal start next season maybe Katz will finally realize the need to dump all of the OBC.

 

[thadd]

Good theory on Chiarelli needing an ally. I really wonder if Nicholson is going to be the final decision maker here. It seems like a choice has to be made. OBC or Chia/McLellan. I pray it isn't the OBC, but if it is they might as well stay internal for the new coach and GM.

After another brutal start next season maybe Katz will finally realize the need to dump all of the OBC.

Katz is a businessman and a billionaire. I honestly don't understand how he thought this could work in the first place. I've gotta believe that he got rich finding the right people for the job at some point in his career.

How on earth could he think it would work differently for hockey?

 

[Mr Positive]

The whole thing is a mess. It was described as a story with no heroes and only villains. I think that’s pretty accurate. It wouldn’t surprise me if Chiarelli wants to keep Mclellan around just because he’s a number on his side. It certainly can’t be because he thinks he’s a good coach, can it? Man, we’re screwed. I wish Katz would fire everybody and start fresh.

the only reason they'd be kept around is continuity and reputation. Both McLellan and Chia have great reputations. They'd be hired reasonably quickly if we fired them, and if you don't think so just look at someone like Shero, who was fired in Pittsburgh because of bad moves and a lack of results. He was hired again in less than a year. The same would happen with both Tmac and Chia

Tmac also has a good rep from his days in San Jose, and from how the team played last season. From a pure objective opinion, it's not so obvious that he should be fired. Yes the team was in disarray this season, but there are many factors there. That's the thing about continuity. If you fired someone it's best to be sure that you are cutting off the right person, because if you didn't then your problem will remain and you'll have to go through the trouble of starting over, and with fixing the real issue with the team.

I am also suspect of fan opinion on a lot of things, especially where emotion is involved. Of course fans will be very unhappy, and so they will want someone to be punished for this, when punishment is never the right thing. Probably the smartest thing Colorado did last offseason was not to fire Bednar. Just about every Avs fans 'knew' that the coach was a major problem with the team, having finished with a worse total than the Oilers ever did during the worst years, but Sakic made a gutsy call against the fans' wishes.

I don't know if keeping Tmac or Chia around is the right thing or not, but I think Nicholson probably knows quite a bit, and keeping these guys around might be the best possible move to winning next season, and it's not a stretch at all to suggest that.

 

[rboomercat90]

the only reason they'd be kept around is continuity and reputation. Both McLellan and Chia have great reputations. They'd be hired reasonably quickly if we fired them, and if you don't think so just look at someone like Shero, who was fired in Pittsburgh because of bad moves and a lack of results. He was hired again in less than a year. The same would happen with both Tmac and Chia

Tmac also has a good rep from his days in San Jose, and from how the team played last season. From a pure objective opinion, it's not so obvious that he should be fired. Yes the team was in disarray this season, but there are many factors there. That's the thing about continuity. If you fired someone it's best to be sure that you are cutting off the right person, because if you didn't then your problem will remain and you'll have to go through the trouble of starting over, and with fixing the real issue with the team.

I am also suspect of fan opinion on a lot of things, especially where emotion is involved. Of course fans will be very unhappy, and so they will want someone to be punished for this, when punishment is never the right thing. Probably the smartest thing Colorado did last offseason was not to fire Bednar. Just about every Avs fans 'knew' that the coach was a major problem with the team, having finished with a worse total than the Oilers ever did during the worst years, but Sakic made a gutsy call against the fans' wishes.

I don't know if keeping Tmac or Chia around is the right thing or not, but I think Nicholson probably knows quite a bit, and keeping these guys around might be the best possible move to winning next season, and it's not a stretch at all to suggest that.

I find it hard to compare the Oilers with what happened in Colorado last year. Roy threw the team in disarray when he quit just before training camp. Bednar was a last minute replacement and struggled to find his footing as a rookie head coach. The Oilers didn’t have those issue. They just didn’t play well from the start for whatever reason and Mclellan never found any answers. That to me is the issue. He’s slow to react to problems if he even recognizes them at all.

Good for you if you think he just had a bad year and something can be achieved with continuity. I thought a lot of holes were exposed in his coaching last year that concern me. He isn’t a rookie, we’ve had a lot of exposure to who he is. There have been plenty of articles dug up with the same complaints about how he handles his teams going back years. My biggest complaint, among many, about him is he doesn’t get the most from his players. The team can make the decision to keep him but I think the Oilers will underachieve with him in charge just like the Sharks used to.

 

[Mr Positive]

I find it hard to compare the Oilers with what happened in Colorado last year. Roy threw the team in disarray when he quit just before training camp. Bednar was a last minute replacement and struggled to find his footing as a rookie head coach. The Oilers didn’t have those issue. They just didn’t play well from the start for whatever reason and Mclellan never found any answers. That to me is the issue. He’s slow to react to problems if he even recognizes them at all.

Good for you if you think he just had a bad year and something can be achieved with continuity. I thought a lot of holes were exposed in his coaching last year that concern me. He isn’t a rookie, we’ve had a lot of exposure to who he is. There have been plenty of articles dug up with the same complaints about how he handles his teams going back years. My biggest complaint, among many, about him is he doesn’t get the most from his players. The team can make the decision to keep him but I think the Oilers will underachieve with him in charge just like the Sharks used to.

Colorado had chaos with their team, but their new coach still had a training camp and all that. They had injuries as well.

But we had chaos too. It was an offseason of downgrading for cap prepartion. We lost Pouliot from the PK, and Jokinen didn't replace him well. We swapped Eberle for Strome, and Strome took half of a season to find his legs. Sekera missed the first half of the season due to injury, and took time to get to true 100%. Klefbom and Larsson had issues all season as well, both injury and personal, and both missed significant time. Talbot had a rough 1st half.

And believe me, I do understand the arguments for GM failure last offseason as well coaching issues. The PK home/away split was definitely a psychology issue, and that's coaching. (special teams usually are a coaching issue). For the GM, yes Chia did downgrade the team, a team that was already going to start the season without Sekera.

There were also successes. Tmac was the coach while Khaira and Nurse had their breakout seasons, and that only happened because Tmac gave them significant time and patience next to quality players. For Chia, at the start of the year he looked really awful, with Sekera injured, Talbot playing bad, Strome playing bad, Larsson playing bad, Jokinen playing bad, Letestu playing bad, Benning playing bad, Maroon just being average, McDavid being average, and Lucic playing bad. As the 2nd half carried on, these issues were all improved in different ways (maybe not Lucic), and he also made some decent moves along the way like getting picks for Davidson and Maroon, getting Marody traded for and signed, as well as finding Rattie and Aberg.

 

[rboomercat90]

Colorado had chaos with their team, but their new coach still had a training camp and all that. They had injuries as well.

But we had chaos too. It was an offseason of downgrading for cap prepartion. We lost Pouliot from the PK, and Jokinen didn't replace him well. We swapped Eberle for Strome, and Strome took half of a season to find his legs. Sekera missed the first half of the season due to injury, and took time to get to true 100%. Klefbom and Larsson had issues all season as well, both injury and personal, and both missed significant time. Talbot had a rough 1st half.

And believe me, I do understand the arguments for GM failure last offseason as well coaching issues. The PK home/away split was definitely a psychology issue, and that's coaching. (special teams usually are a coaching issue). For the GM, yes Chia did downgrade the team, a team that was already going to start the season without Sekera.

There were also successes. Tmac was the coach while Khaira and Nurse had their breakout seasons, and that only happened because Tmac gave them significant time and patience next to quality players. For Chia, at the start of the year he looked really awful, with Sekera injured, Talbot playing bad, Strome playing bad, Larsson playing bad, Jokinen playing bad, Letestu playing bad, Benning playing bad, Maroon just being average, McDavid being average, and Lucic playing bad. As the 2nd half carried on, these issues were all improved in different ways (maybe not Lucic), and he also made some decent moves along the way like getting picks for Davidson and Maroon, getting Marody traded for and signed, as well as finding Rattie and Aberg.

You seem to be defending Chiarelli here. That’s not necessary with me, I’m not calling for his head. It’s Mclellan I think needs to go.

 

[guymez]

Katz is a businessman and a billionaire. I honestly don't understand how he thought this could work in the first place. I've gotta believe that he got rich finding the right people for the job at some point in his career.

How on earth could he think it would work differently for hockey?

I think its because he clearly isnt applying the same strategy.
His involvement with the Oilers really does seem to fall outside of his business framework and that has badly skewed his perspective.
The Oilers are a toy for Katz.... his way of connecting with the OBC and reliving the good ole days and pumping up his ego.
The team and all the fans are paying a big price for that and will continue to pay a big price until Katz decides to take a different approach.
That may never happen though.