Ambassador Of Fun
Registered User
- Jun 23, 2010
- 2,780
- 11
So what happens if this team is actually bad?
- Thread starter piqued
- Start date
The fact that Goligoski has another year left on his contract raises his value considerabley. Teams could part with a mid to late 1st knowing (thinking) they can get help now and then have the 1st chance to resign him or flip him sometime before the next deadline and still probably get a 2nd for him under the right circumstances.
OttMorrow
Registered User
- Sep 18, 2003
- 3,721
- 1
At this point, if you could get anything near 1st Round picks for Daley and Goligoski I'd be for it.
Let's just the "reset" button on our defensive corp completely. Take everyone off the D who played with us last year and isn't named "Nemeth".
Full tank mode.
I don't know if having a bunch of young, raw defensemen would be able to keep this team buoyant in 2015-16.
I would at this point as well. Semi rebuild time. Oleksiak, Jokipakka, Klingberg, Demers, is fine with me, not possible to be much worse, but gets us more out of this trainwreck season and helps tank. But until Nemeth comes back and we can sign a D in the offseason, who takes the other 2 spots?
I doubt we could get a 1st for Daley. But having 2 firsts in this draft and an extra 3rd in next would make me more willing to give up next years 2 or a 3+ to trade for a player like Z from Arizona or Franson giving us a chance to sign them before it becomes a bidding war while grabbing and extra 1st.
I doubt we could get a 1st for Daley. But having 2 firsts in this draft and an extra 3rd in next would make me more willing to give up next years 2 or a 3+ to trade for a player like Z from Arizona or Franson giving us a chance to sign them before it becomes a bidding war while grabbing and extra 1st.
OttMorrow
Registered User
- Sep 18, 2003
- 3,721
- 1
You definitely go for Seabrook and some Demers-level guys in the summer. He'll try for Myers if he's still there. I wouldn't want to go into the following season that weak. Definitely pick up some vets in the offseason if you go full system reboot on the D this season. I'm with ya on that.
I agree, my thinking is that you can't get good replacements for lesser picks and players. The free agent list is not terrible this year and trade value for rentals is down, theoretically you trade for one of those guys and resign them, while grabbing an extra 1st, Nhl 15 style.
Pohlow
Registered User
Faska, our 'poor mans Toews', has 2 goals and is -10 in 20 games for Texas. Campbell isn't looking stellar. Stransky 1 goal in 20 games. Like, can't even look to the future.
SolidusAKA
Registered User
Well, if you limit our prospect pool to 3 players
Ive been enjoying my time following guys like Ully, Dickinson, Elie, Lindell, Pollock, Honka, Ritchie
It seems like Texas in general is having 'system' issues, so its no wonder that some guys are having trouble getting started
Elysian
Emo Stars Fan
A lot of our prospects are
Bunch of players who likely will never be better than third liners are going to save the franchise 
redbeardtx
Registered User
Dr Pepper
Registered User
ginblossoms
Registered User
At the game yesterday. Ice girl shovels said "www.janiking.com." At first blush, I thought they said "www.tanking.com."
Does Seguin really NEED Benn...I mean, he obviously plays better with him (that's obvious), but I just don't think he needs to be supported by him...just saying.
Aside from Seguin, every forward has been ok/terrible...
Spezza needs serious help on the 2nd line (maybe Benn, maybe Eakin). Cole and an AHL player/prospect is just not good at all, and I had enough seeing him being paired with those type of players in Ottawa (Robitaille/Bass/Butler/Filatov/Winchester/Conacher/Greening/...etc.)...
Benn does have some flashes of greatness, but for the most part has been struggling to produce (even with Seguin).
Eakin has been mediocre...IMO. I think he is been pretty overhyped in this forum.
Hemsky is complete trash as of now...and don't even try to damage control it.
Cole is just..."there"...to fill in the empty space, which is what makes me so ****ing mad. He doesn't belong in that top 6 role anymore.
I really want to see...
???-Seguin-Hemsky (Seguin IMO can still continue to produce at the same rate without Benn...he is THAT good. On the other hand, Hemsky could get out of this terrible scoring slump being paired with him. ??? can be pretty much anyone that can play a solid 2 way or aggressive play. Val should fill in that space though)
Benn-Spezza-Eakin (All players IMO that are desperately in need of producing points. Benn and Spezza will both benefit from playing along each other, while Eakin can really help Spezza's +/-, because he needs that defense support, which Eakin does it pretty well)
Some may disagree, but Seguin can't single handedly carry this team throughout the season. If anyone wants that "secondary scoring", AHL player/prospect-Spezza-Cole/Hemsky isn't going to give you ANYTHING
Aside from Seguin, every forward has been ok/terrible...
Spezza needs serious help on the 2nd line (maybe Benn, maybe Eakin). Cole and an AHL player/prospect is just not good at all, and I had enough seeing him being paired with those type of players in Ottawa (Robitaille/Bass/Butler/Filatov/Winchester/Conacher/Greening/...etc.)...
Benn does have some flashes of greatness, but for the most part has been struggling to produce (even with Seguin).
Eakin has been mediocre...IMO. I think he is been pretty overhyped in this forum.
Hemsky is complete trash as of now...and don't even try to damage control it.
Cole is just..."there"...to fill in the empty space, which is what makes me so ****ing mad. He doesn't belong in that top 6 role anymore.
I really want to see...
???-Seguin-Hemsky (Seguin IMO can still continue to produce at the same rate without Benn...he is THAT good. On the other hand, Hemsky could get out of this terrible scoring slump being paired with him. ??? can be pretty much anyone that can play a solid 2 way or aggressive play. Val should fill in that space though)
Benn-Spezza-Eakin (All players IMO that are desperately in need of producing points. Benn and Spezza will both benefit from playing along each other, while Eakin can really help Spezza's +/-, because he needs that defense support, which Eakin does it pretty well)
Some may disagree, but Seguin can't single handedly carry this team throughout the season. If anyone wants that "secondary scoring", AHL player/prospect-Spezza-Cole/Hemsky isn't going to give you ANYTHING
Troy McClure
Suter will never be scratched
No, Seguin doesn't need Benn to produce. Spezza does need good players beside him to produce. It's why I'm all for putting Benn on Spezza's wing.
I'd want to see:
Eakin - Seguin - Ritchie
Benn - Spezza - Sceviour
... Okay point is... Since Ritchie is finally back and looks to be getting back to his former self, I would like to see him called up sometime, especially since RW is almost weaker than LW by now...
Edit: Thought Sceviour played better lately, is this right or am I hallucinating right now?
Agreed. Seguin doesn't need Benn to produce and Benn doesn't need Seguin to produce either. Spezza does require a winger who can put the puck in the net. It's at least worth trying. Look at Chicago with Kane and Toews on different lines. Maybe it won't work but it's not like the team can get much worse if we experiment.
The biggest issue is that Seguin is back to sucking at faceoffs and Benn is still very good at them especially in the offensive zone which allows things like Seguin's second goal last game to happen. If Benn was on another line we wouldn't have had that goal. Also he takes more faceoffs than Seguin and without him Seguin would have to take all of the faceoffs instead of only 40-50% of them
beepeearr
@beepeearr
There is just something special about the chemistry between Benn and Seguin. If the Rumors are true and we are trying to move Cole and Fiddler, I'm hoping its because they plan on calling up Ritchie who I would love to see with Spezza
glovesave_35
Name
Does Seguin really NEED Benn...I mean, he obviously plays better with him (that's obvious), but I just don't think he needs to be supported by him...just saying.
Aside from Seguin, every forward has been ok/terrible...
Spezza needs serious help on the 2nd line (maybe Benn, maybe Eakin). Cole and an AHL player/prospect is just not good at all, and I had enough seeing him being paired with those type of players in Ottawa (Robitaille/Bass/Butler/Filatov/Winchester/Conacher/Greening/...etc.)...
Benn does have some flashes of greatness, but for the most part has been struggling to produce (even with Seguin).
Eakin has been mediocre...IMO. I think he is been pretty overhyped in this forum.
Hemsky is complete trash as of now...and don't even try to damage control it.
Cole is just..."there"...to fill in the empty space, which is what makes me so ****ing mad. He doesn't belong in that top 6 role anymore.
I really want to see...
???-Seguin-Hemsky (Seguin IMO can still continue to produce at the same rate without Benn...he is THAT good. On the other hand, Hemsky could get out of this terrible scoring slump being paired with him. ??? can be pretty much anyone that can play a solid 2 way or aggressive play. Val should fill in that space though)
Benn-Spezza-Eakin (All players IMO that are desperately in need of producing points. Benn and Spezza will both benefit from playing along each other, while Eakin can really help Spezza's +/-, because he needs that defense support, which Eakin does it pretty well)
Some may disagree, but Seguin can't single handedly carry this team throughout the season. If anyone wants that "secondary scoring", AHL player/prospect-Spezza-Cole/Hemsky isn't going to give you ANYTHING
25 points in 27 games is pretty good from a struggling winger. If you want to split up Benn and Seguin and put Benn with Spezza I'm fine with that because it might be the best use of assets. If you do though, you better put somebody who can win faceoffs with Seguin or his line will never start with the puck. Benn helps Seguin just as much as Seguin helps Benn. People see Seguin roll off a bunch of goals and all of a sudden he's a one man band. Benn's playmaking that leads to a lot of Seguin goals seems to be swept under the rug.
Re: Hemsky, you are going to need to explain this "damage control" you have mentioned numerous times.
Seguin has had an amazing season so far but it's not going to last forever. He's not Crosby who will consistently rack up points in almost every game. Benn went 11 games without a goal and while it's unlikely the same can happen to Seguin. That's why we need goals to come from people other than Seguin and they're sure as **** not going to come from Erik Cole on Spezza's wing. We have only two 20 goal scorers on the entire team and they're both on the same line. That is not how we get secondary scoring.
Here's how the Stars second line compares to the Bolts and Sharks which are my other two teams (can't really compare to teams I don't watch much) :
Bolts- Palat-Johnson-Kucherov with 19-28-23 points
Sharks - Marleau-Couture-Wingels with 25-24-20 points
Stars- Cole-Spezza-Hemsky with 9-21-7 points. Other winger options are Roussel with 12 points, McKenzie with 1 in 10 games, Sceviour with 4 points.
As you can see Spezza is in a proper 2nd line points range even with his lack of support but none of his wingers are. I'm not saying that Cole needs to be Marleau but he's 16 points below him right now. The ****ing Oilers are a closer comparison to us right now with 14-9-8 for their second line scoring. The Sabres are the worst offensive team in the league and their second line is 5-6-9. We have basement-dweller quality wingers right now.
Here's how the Stars second line compares to the Bolts and Sharks which are my other two teams (can't really compare to teams I don't watch much) :
Bolts- Palat-Johnson-Kucherov with 19-28-23 points
Sharks - Marleau-Couture-Wingels with 25-24-20 points
Stars- Cole-Spezza-Hemsky with 9-21-7 points. Other winger options are Roussel with 12 points, McKenzie with 1 in 10 games, Sceviour with 4 points.
As you can see Spezza is in a proper 2nd line points range even with his lack of support but none of his wingers are. I'm not saying that Cole needs to be Marleau but he's 16 points below him right now. The ****ing Oilers are a closer comparison to us right now with 14-9-8 for their second line scoring. The Sabres are the worst offensive team in the league and their second line is 5-6-9. We have basement-dweller quality wingers right now.
Mr Misty
The Irons Are Back!
- Feb 20, 2012
- 7,965
- 58
I understand what you are saying but stopping goals is the problem and there hasn't been enough consistency in linemates to really compare Cole and Hemsky to other teams' 2nd line wingers.
Frozen Failure
They got business in my hockey, and I hate it.
If you're scoring goals you aren't being scored on. If you take it into the offensive zone and immediately lose the puck you aren't doing anything to help the team. If you try to carry the puck out of the zone and you consistently lose the puck you're hurting your team. Hemsky is weak on the puck, Cole is weak on the puck, Spezza had two absolutely brutal giveaways in the last game. If they were at least scoring then it would be okay but they're not putting up points and they're hurting the team overall. They're also the weakest defensive line on the team by far.
If you want an example of a second line player with elite possession skills then look at Johnny Gaudreau. The puck is on his stick every time he's on the ice and he drives the play of his line. When he gets pushed off the puck he gets it back. He rarely cheats on his defensive responsibilities. His linemates have changed frequently due to injuries but he's been on the ice for only 13 goals against this year (the lowest among forwards on his team). Spezza has been on the ice for 31 (the most among forwards on the Stars). That's the difference that solid second line possession can make.
I use Gaudreau as an example because I think he and Spezza have a similar play style but Spezza hasn't been strong on the puck. I think Spezza has the potential to be much better but right now he has to carry his linemates and it's not working.
