Post-Game Talk: Sixty Nine

[CasusBelli]

Rempe back for 70. Thanks.

 

[Machinehead]

If Rempe scores like Kreider, he has my permission to never look at anybody funny ever again.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

Well I think you’ve known me on here long enough to know that I don’t call out a specific player even when they’re playing well. There are no hidden agendas for me here. So I can’t speak for the other posters who do. All I can comment is that I unbiasedly will call out players that don’t hustle. Last night was a play and he deserved to be called out on it because it cost us a goal.

He made an awful play, he had an awful night. Also, that pass from Miller was even awfuler, he can't make that play there.

 

[Levitate]

It's not about whether you can call somebody out or not.

The reactions to Kreider are always different from those to other players, in a bad way. If anything, Kreider should have earned the benefit of the doubt. It should go the other way.

We see the comments about him giving a bad effort even when he's objectively playing well, because I don't know...I guess people don't like specific things he did? It happens every game.

I don't really care about that. I care about results.

I agree with whoever said that weasel Brooks started this culture. He would have unironically traded Kreider for Josh Anderson.

His entire career people have been saying "Kreider has so many physical tools if he just played like a power forward he'd be a top player!" when it's completely obvious he didn't have the requisite skills to be a star player. People got on him for not caring or being too soft and wasting his "talent"
Then he turns into a near point per game player in the later half of his career, a time when most players are falling off the proverbial cliff, and people still bitch he isn't living up to their expectations.
The one constant with Kreider is that a lot of fans have never accepted the kind of player he is and what his actual skill limits are.

I definitely think there's some merit to this.

Kreider has a big body, good natural speed without having to really rev the engine, and his positioning is absolutely elite -- as good as it gets. It's the best aspect of his game and it doesn't get enough love. That's why he's the best in front of the net, a good defender, and just a force all over the offensive zone. He is in the perfect spot always.

This all equates to a player who doesn't have to hustle to win battles. I know people like to see hustle, and some guys need to hustle, but if he's already (and I posted the numbers) affecting the game at a level among the top 30ish players in the league, what is more mustard going to accomplish, exactly? Probably just more penalties and being out of position more often.

The only real bad habit he has is making dumb passes; passing being something he's not really good at. It certainly burned him last night.

That being said, he's already trounced his career high in assists with 13 games left, along with the best 5v5 offensive analytics he's ever had, so he's probably improved his playmaking overall.

For a guy who's going to be 33 next month to continue improving the way he has, I think speaks to the work he puts in.

I said this in another thread but I think he has started coasting more into the boards and battling for the puck less than he used to, but it's also possible that at almost 33 and having gone through some pretty rough injury troubles in his career, he has come to the conclusion that he has to dial it back and save his body for the abuse he takes in front of the net rather than crashing into the boards for pucks

 

[PalmCoastRanger]

Once the playoffs start, the "rules" and "egos" go out the window. If Zibanejad still plays like this, they will juggle the power play and other stuff. He will get less minutes. I don't think Lavy will hesitate to move players around the lineup.

The juggling will only prove PP1 should have never been broken up. Since whoever comes into that mix will need time to acclimate. Time which simply will not exist in the playoffs. This team really need to decide at which which state of the cup hunt they are in. If they consider themselves true contenders, then the regular season is the time to make these adjustments. Playoffs is the worst time to make these type of changes.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

Once the playoffs start, the "rules" and "egos" go out the window. If Zibanejad still plays like this, they will juggle the power play and other stuff. He will get less minutes. I don't think Lavy will hesitate to move players around the lineup.

Doubt it.

Zib seems untouchable .

But I guess we’ll see.

 

[will1066]

The juggling will only prove PP1 should have never been broken up. Since whoever comes into that mix will need time to acclimate. Time which simply will not exist in the playoffs. This team really need to decide at which which state of the cup hunt they are in. If they consider themselves true contenders, then the regular season is the time to make these adjustments. Playoffs is the worst time to make these type of changes.

It's really going to be done between games, in practice. Playoffs is really going from game to game. The planning really becomes about the next game.

 

[80shockeywasbuns]

His entire career people have been saying "Kreider has so many physical tools if he just played like a power forward he'd be a top player!" when it's completely obvious he didn't have the requisite skills to be a star player. People got on him for not caring or being too soft and wasting his "talent"
Then he turns into a near point per game player in the later half of his career, a time when most players are falling off the proverbial cliff, and people still bitch he isn't living up to their expectations.
The one constant with Kreider is that a lot of fans have never accepted the kind of player he is and what his actual skill limits are.

Basically any time there’s a large player with above average north south speed people will act like that player should be able to Derrick Henry their way to net at will and score 40 goals driving wide repeatedly. The funny thing is the one time we actually had a huge insanely fast player who could create a breakaway out of thin air he was the most hated player I have ever seen, even when he was finishing (Gauthier).

 

[Jaromir Jagr]

His entire career people have been saying "Kreider has so many physical tools if he just played like a power forward he'd be a top player!" when it's completely obvious he didn't have the requisite skills to be a star player. People got on him for not caring or being too soft and wasting his "talent"
Then he turns into a near point per game player in the later half of his career, a time when most players are falling off the proverbial cliff, and people still bitch he isn't living up to their expectations.
The one constant with Kreider is that a lot of fans have never accepted the kind of player he is and what his actual skill limits are.



I said this in another thread but I think he has started coasting more into the boards and battling for the puck less than he used to, but it's also possible that at almost 33 and having gone through some pretty rough injury troubles in his career, he has come to the conclusion that he has to dial it back and save his body for the abuse he takes in front of the net rather than crashing into the boards for pucks

This is why I like being on these boards. I completely agree with the first paragraph and have noticed the coasting more this year, but never considered it could be actually to plan given his past injury troubles and that he is beginning to hit his mid-30's. That is similar to what Jagr did with the Rangers.

Unfortunately, I see a lot of similarities with how the fanbase treats Miller and I sometimes wonder if that could have led to the mental stress that caused him to miss some time earlier this year.

Any time you end up with a big guy who doesn't play like Rempe, people just can't seem to accept it. Miller is incredibly talented, but he is just not that physical and that's OK.

If you ask mostly anyone (that isn't a goon) who they would choose between Miller & Trouba, they'd choose Miller every day of the week and twice on Sunday, despite both being similar sizes and one playing far more physically than the other.

Hopefully he and others that come after him can ignore this noise and just play their game, understanding how valuable they are. Over time, hopefully the fools that ache for "old time hockey" will leave the sport.

 

[Harbour Dog]

It's really going to be done between games, in practice. Playoffs is really going from game to game. The planning really becomes about the next game.

But WHERE will he "tow the line"? So many unanswered questions.

 

[Levitate]

Unfortunately, I see a lot of similarities with how the fanbase treats Miller and I sometimes wonder if that could have led to the mental stress that caused him to miss some time earlier this year.

Man I hope players know better than to read these boards, haha. I'd do everything I could to avoid reading fans hot takes if I was a pro athlete

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Man I hope players know better than to read these boards, haha. I'd do everything I could to avoid reading fans hot takes if I was a pro athlete

This is why I never became a pro hockey player, I love HF too damn much.

 

[bhamill]

Kreider has scored 137 goals (including playoffs) in a little less than 3 seasons. He's on pace for another 70+ point season at age 33. He's a top penalty killer, one of the best net front PP guys maybe ever, and a net positive at even strength. Yet a bunch of mutant fans hate him. A homegrown, first round pick who has built for himself a legendary Ranger career. Far better than his hockey talents should have taken him. And he's also earned every damn penny of his contract - even though ya'll were ready to run him out of town four years ago.

It is by far one of the dumbest things to ever occur in Rangerland, probably just below the numbf***s who still chant "Potvin sucks." This fan base is embarrassing at times.

Well first, “Potvin sucks” (not that I chant it) is f***ing hysterical, BECAUSE it’s so stupid. THAT’S the joke. Even Potvin thinks it’s funny. Hence his Potvin Socks.
As far as Kreider, yes the hatred he gets sometimes is just, IMO, astoundingly stupid. But it’s also a compliment in a way: people see just so much more IN him at times than they see in the results. If he was just some scrub, he wouldn’t be the “target” he is. However, it’s completely valid to criticize him when he has a bad game, including if it’s poor effort. Just standing there after a giveaway is sub par effort. No matter who you are. I don’t care if it’s Kreider or Messier or Leetch. And it’s perfectly okay to say so. We all agree he is human, humans do not give 100% 100% of the time. Not a single one. And when that’s the case it’s fair to say so.

 

[80shockeywasbuns]

This is why I like being on these boards. I completely agree with the first paragraph and have noticed the coasting more this year, but never considered it could be actually to plan given his past injury troubles and that he is beginning to hit his mid-30's. That is similar to what Jagr did with the Rangers.

Unfortunately, I see a lot of similarities with how the fanbase treats Miller and I sometimes wonder if that could have led to the mental stress that caused him to miss some time earlier this year.

Any time you end up with a big guy who doesn't play like Rempe, people just can't seem to accept it. Miller is incredibly talented, but he is just not that physical and that's OK.

If you ask mostly anyone (that isn't a goon) who they would choose between Miller & Trouba, they'd choose Miller every day of the week and twice on Sunday, despite both being similar sizes and one playing far more physically than the other.

Hopefully he and others that come after him can ignore this noise and just play their game, understanding how valuable they are. Over time, hopefully the fools that ache for "old time hockey" will leave the sport.

Miller is a huge galloping skater with a massive reach and he uses it extremely well. There’s no reason for him to be wildly throwing himself around at people when he can skate with anybody and just bother them with his reach keeping the play in front of him.

 

[will1066]

But WHERE will he "tow the line"? So many unanswered questions.

The line is across Siegenthaler's face

 

[TominNC]

This is why I like being on these boards. I completely agree with the first paragraph and have noticed the coasting more this year, but never considered it could be actually to plan given his past injury troubles and that he is beginning to hit his mid-30's. That is similar to what Jagr did with the Rangers.

Unfortunately, I see a lot of similarities with how the fanbase treats Miller and I sometimes wonder if that could have led to the mental stress that caused him to miss some time earlier this year.

Any time you end up with a big guy who doesn't play like Rempe, people just can't seem to accept it. Miller is incredibly talented, but he is just not that physical and that's OK.

If you ask mostly anyone (that isn't a goon) who they would choose between Miller & Trouba, they'd choose Miller every day of the week and twice on Sunday, despite both being similar sizes and one playing far more physically than the other.

Hopefully he and others that come after him can ignore this noise and just play their game, understanding how valuable they are. Over time, hopefully the fools that ache for "old time hockey" will leave the sport.

Now everyone loves him but I remember Boyle also getting crap regularly because he didn't crush people and didn't fight well.

 

[Levitate]

Well first, “Potvin sucks” (not that I chant it) is f***ing hysterical, BECAUSE it’s so stupid. THAT’S the joke. Even Potvin thinks it’s funny. Hence his Potvin Socks.
As far as Kreider, yes the hatred he gets sometimes is just, IMO, astoundingly stupid. But it’s also a compliment in a way: people see just so much more IN him at times than they see in the results. If he was just some scrub, he wouldn’t be the “target” he is. However, it’s completely valid to criticize him when he has a bad game, including if it’s poor effort. Just standing there after a giveaway is sub par effort. No matter who you are. I don’t care if it’s Kreider or Messier or Leetch. And it’s perfectly okay to say so. We all agree he is human, humans do not give 100% 100% of the time. Not a single one. And when that’s the case it’s fair to say so.

I think it's fair to criticize a poor play or a poor game but people tend to then tie it to his overall game and call in question his work ethic etc

After all these years I don't really see the "there's so much more in him!" and tend to think most of that was wishful thinking to begin with. A lot of people overrated his total skills package and saw "big and fast and decently offensively talented" and decided he could dominate the league if he just "tried". He's never had the hands or the shot or the vision and passing ability to do that though. That he turned himself into the premier net front guy in the NHL is amazing

I do think he needs to up his energy a bit as this team heads into the playoffs, I hope he can do that, but it might also just be that stage of his career and ability...

 

[bhamill]

I think it's fair to criticize a poor play or a poor game but people tend to then tie it to his overall game and call in question his work ethic etc

After all these years I don't really see the "there's so much more in him!" and tend to think most of that was wishful thinking to begin with. A lot of people overrated his total skills package and saw "big and fast and decently offensively talented" and decided he could dominate the league if he just "tried". He's never had the hands or the shot or the vision and passing ability to do that though. That he turned himself into the premier net front guy in the NHL is amazing

I do think he needs to up his energy a bit as this team heads into the playoffs, I hope he can do that, but it might also just be that stage of his career and ability...

Yeah, I think that’s reasonable. I mean at 33 he is what he is. He obviously works hard, but like anyone else he can have lapses in play and even effort. Anyone who thinks “he sucks” just because they want more is missing the big picture. Like the people saying Kakko is worthless because he hasn’t lived up to being a 2OA. Valuable players regardless of whether they have lived up to every person’s (reasonable or unreasonable) expectations.
Personally I hope Kreider retires a NYR.

 

[egelband]

Zibanejad struggled in Ottawa. That's why he was available.

When he came here, he found a niche putting up numbers with a certain skillset, and he continues to do what earns him ice time and money.

If he was capable of being a more complete player, he would be. He's very limited and he scores goals from his spots because that's what he's good at.

He's never been what people want him to be.

Yep. Amazing defensive player, covers a ton of ground. Responsible as the day is long. A coach’s dream. The ice tilts toward us when he’s on. He’s not a great passer and he’s not a determined finisher. It is what it is.

 

[kovazub94]

I think it's fair to criticize a poor play or a poor game but people tend to then tie it to his overall game and call in question his work ethic etc

He's never had the hands or the shot or the vision and passing ability to do that though. That he turned himself into the premier net front guy in the NHL is amazing

Two points:
1. Using terms like “sucks” or “dog shit” (not directed at you obviously in general) etc is asking get a pushback. Learn from Vally - he did point a finger at Shesterkin for miscommunication with his D that ultimately let to defensive zone struggles then penalty and PP against goal. He also called out Kreider for lack of urgency to hassle back and at least make Jet player uncomfortable to any degree possible.

2. Your description of Kreider is EXACTLY on point.