Should Burke be given one extra year to redeem himself?

[RogerRoeper*]

It's odd given the Marlies record and some of our prospects and our financial situation that the Leafs are perceived as the biggest mess in the NHL.


I don't think people get how much the NHl will look different next time they play. There will be so many trades/signings. There will also be teams that are not deemed contenders that will be.

 

[Bomber0104]

It's odd given the Marlies record and some of our prospects and our financial situation that the Leafs are perceived as the biggest mess in the NHL.

Marlies record means nothing. They are carried by veterans.

They are the biggest mess. They are free-falling, as their record shows.

I suppose you think a stadium chorus of "Fire Wilson" and "Fire Burkie" and full page apology ads in newspapers are commonplace for teams in a good situation?

The excuses really need to end.

 

[Rare Jewel]

John Ferguson Jr.

100-86-27 (.533 points percentage)

Brian Burke

136-144-48 (.488 points percentage)

I'm sure the fact that you overlooked that JFJ inherited a Flecther/Smith/Quinn team was purely accidental, Right?






But seriously, You're too much..

 

[RogerRoeper*]

And five years later, even worse than when he took over and worse than any team since the 80's.



Seems like you are an expert on Anaheim, so maybe you can explain why it didn't take five years there but it's taking longer here to even make it to JFJ's level of excellence.

Quoting Burke

Wow are you even bothering. Why do you put so much stock in his quotes? I'm a Burke supporter and I admit he's the biggest b.s'er in the entire NHL.

 

[RogerRoeper*]

Marlies record means nothing. They are carried by veterans.

They are the biggest mess. They are free-falling, as their record shows.

I suppose you think a stadium chorus of "Fire Wilson" and "Fire Burkie" and full page apology ads in newspapers are commonplace for teams in a good situation?

The excuses really need to end.

No they aren't.

This is Toronto. Of course they have to apologize. Did you know there are NHL teams offering free tickets as apologies?

 

[Morbo]

The Oilers are worse than the Leafs, because their record says that they are. This follows from my above quote, namely, "you are what your record says you are." What's so complicated here?


Who has the better future is a different question than what defines you. I'm not seeing how the former question, namely, who has the better future is relevant here.

Nothing complicated at all. Who said it was complicated?

It's relevant in terms of how the two teams are perceived. The Oilers are perceived to be amazing despite still finishing last with their crop of high picks in the lineup.

 

[Bomber0104]

Quoting Burke

Wow are you even bothering. Why do you put so much stock in his quotes? I'm a Burke supporter and I admit he's the biggest b.s'er in the entire NHL.

Yeah...I am quoting him.

Trading multiple first rounders, spending millions to the cap is very reflective of a person who wants to get competitive right away and not wait for prospects to be drafted and developed.

Like Kevin Lowe did:

"We've got to get back to what we did for a lot of years," said Lowe, who moved to his current position in 2008 after eight seasons as general manager. "We've got to get back to our basic principles of drafting and development, get out of the free agent business."

"We've found over the last decade that, except for the last couple years, we've been a competitive team, but there wasn't really a year where we were considered a contender at the start of the year."

"It just seems to be in recent NHL history that the only way you become a contender is you have to go to the back of the bus for a while and regroup," Lowe said. "We had a pile of injuries this year to key players and in some respects …it's a blessing in disguise.

 

[RogerRoeper*]

What does Burke's tenure with Anaheim have to do with his current tenure with the Leafs?



The Oilers are worse than the Leafs, because their record says that they are. This follows from my above quote, namely, "you are what your record says you are." What's so complicated here?



Who has the better future is a different question than what defines you. I'm not seeing how the former question, namely, who has the better future is relevant here.

The Leafs, along with the Oilers and Islanders, are very bad teams. Why? Because they are defined as such based on their record.



Apparently it is.

theCatch22 says:





They mean quite a lot. They define Burke's tenure here.

That's not the belief on this board at all.

 

[RogerRoeper*]

Yeah...I am quoting him.

Trading multiple first rounders, spending millions to the cap is very reflective of a person who wants to get competitive right away and not wait for prospects to be drafted and developed.

Like Kevin Lowe did:

That Lowe quote is HILARIOUS given he tried to give up ALL of Edmonton's first overall picks for Vanek.

And Lowe actually got a big demotion in Edmonton that was disguised as a promotion.

And btw, Burke has acquired multiple first rounders.

 

[Bomber0104]

No they aren't.

This is Toronto. Of course they have to apologize. Did you know there are NHL teams offering free tickets as apologies?

Hate to break it to you...but yes. The Leafs are a huge mess. One of the worst in the league, too.

Check their record over the past four years.

Then check the prospects.

The team never had to apologize to the public when JFJ got canned.

 

[Bomber0104]

That Lowe quote is HILARIOUS given he tried to give up ALL of Edmonton's first overall picks for Vanek.

And Lowe actually got a big demotion in Edmonton that was disguised as a promotion.

In 2007.

This was in 2010.

So you're interpretation of history is a bit off...like eyeball11.

 

[Rare Jewel]

Marlies record means nothing. They are carried by veterans.

They are the biggest mess. They are free-falling, as their record shows.

You don't even watch hockey do you?

 

[RogerRoeper*]

In 2007.

This was in 2010.

So you're interpretation of history is a bit off...like eyeball11.

Yes let's quote Kevin Lowe the man even his own organization didn't want making the GM decisions anymore.

 

[The Blue Devil]

Perhaps you can offer up a reason why the Leafs defense is better than Edmontons then? That's all I'm asking here, I never said the Oilers were the better team. In fact, I never said the Oilers have better defense either. I'm just refuting the idea that our defense is that much better than Edmontons.

Coaching.

 

[Bomber0104]

Yes let's quote Kevin Lowe the man even his own organization didn't want making the GM decisions anymore.

No, let's quote someone who was realistic with his team, and designed a strategy that has now given Oilers one of the brightest, most promising futures in the league with Nugent Hopkins, Hall, and Yakupov.

So much so that now highly touted free agents like Justin Schultz are now gravitating towards that team for just that reason.

While Toronto signs Tim Connollys and Mike Komisareks.

Imagine if Edmonton decided to trade two of their firsts in 2010 and 2011 like Toronto did!

 

[Bomber0104]

You don't even watch hockey do you?

I watch hockey a lot.

The Leafs are one of the worst teams and this is not going to change any time soon unless Brian Burke decides to ship out the future (again) for Luongo, and even then, not a guarantee to even approach JFJ's record in Toronto

This should not be shocking or newsworthy. This is just the reality of the situation Brian Burke has caused here.

 

[The Blue Devil]

Doughty was paid well this past year. The Pens are always a contender and that is because they have these superstars who they are glad to pay well. Chicago too is quite happy to pay Toews his money (I would be anyway, great player).

Without going to the back of the bus, teams would never have had those players to begin with.

Why wouldn't you want multiple superstar players? No one here complains about Phil Kessel being paid his cheque. Why would other teams, for better players?

LOL, EDM propsects combined don't have the impact of Crosby and Malkin. I'd say Malkin alone has more impact, he carried the Pens last year to the playoffs.

 

[Bomber0104]

LOL, EDM propsects combined don't have the impact of Crosby and Malkin. I'd say Malkin alone has more impact, he carried the Pens last year to the playoffs.

Never said they did.

But they should be better combined than most of the other team's around the league's best forwards.

Kessel is worse and older than Eberle
Lupul is worse and older than Hall
Grabovski is worse and older than Nuge
Kulemin is worse and older than Yakupov

So the Leafs obviously have a lot of work to do. And since Brian Burke doesn't believe in the Pittsburgh model and needs to make the playoffs to not get fired, looks like it will have to be through trade or free agency (and we all know how that's been working out so far).

 

[The Blue Devil]

So wait, teams can change their strategies? Are you sure about that?

Of course..as long as it is not the Leafs. We're still apparently doing an accelerated re-tool.

 

[Bomber0104]

Pittsburgh model my ass

Of course..as long as it is not the Leafs. We're still apparently doing an accelerated re-tool.

Yes. We are. More of the same.

Just this spring:

http://sports.nationalpost.com/2012/04/10/unplugged-leafs-gm-brian-burke-pittsburgh-model-my-ass/

http://www.thestar.com/sports/leafs...ke-says-maple-leafs-will-retool-for-next-year

 

[The Blue Devil]

Yes. We are. More of the same.

Just this spring:

http://sports.nationalpost.com/2012/04/10/unplugged-leafs-gm-brian-burke-pittsburgh-model-my-ass/

http://www.thestar.com/sports/leafs...ke-says-maple-leafs-will-retool-for-next-year

The Pens don't have a model. Before the last lock-out they were to poor to even put a bad product on the ice and they won a lottery which has given them a true generational talent, a player that hasn't been witnessed since the prime Lemieux/Jagr/Gretzky days.

 

[Bomber0104]

The Pens don't have a model. Before the last lock-out they were to poor to even put a bad product on the ice and they won a lottery which has given them a true generational talent, a player that hasn't been witnessed since the prime Lemieux/Jagr/Gretzky days.

It's a model of trying to get the best prospects in the draft.

You know exactly what I'm talking about. Why play dumb?

Pittsburgh/Chicago/Edmonton....multiple first overall picks.

 

[RogerRoeper*]

It's a model of trying to get the best prospects in the draft.

You know exactly what I'm talking about. Why play dumb?

Pittsburgh/Chicago/Edmonton....multiple first overall picks.

Chicago got their one first overall pick from winning the lottery. They moved up more spots than any team in history to get Kane.

Pittsburgh went bankrupt. They didn't really try to get first overall picks, and again, got very lucky (Too bored to list the reasons again). Anmd Edmonton is terrible.

It's asinine to try to duplicate this way to build teams.

 

[Bomber0104]

Chicago got their one first overall pick from winning the lottery. They moved up more spots than any team in history to get Kane.

Pittsburgh went bankrupt. They didn't really try to get first overall picks, and again, got very lucky (Too bored to list the reasons again). Anmd Edmonton is terrible.

It's asinine to try to duplicate this way to build teams.

Newsflash...

Edmonton just did. Three times. And it was purposeful as Kevin Lowe just pointed out.

Getting out of the free agent business....getting back to drafting and developing.....how clear do you need it spelled out?

 

[RogerRoeper*]

No, let's quote someone who was realistic with his team, and designed a strategy that has now given Oilers one of the brightest, most promising futures in the league with Nugent Hopkins, Hall, and Yakupov.

So much so that now highly touted free agents like Justin Schultz are now gravitating towards that team for just that reason.

While Toronto signs Tim Connollys and Mike Komisareks.

Imagine if Edmonton decided to trade two of their firsts in 2010 and 2011 like Toronto did!

They did! Only a massive fan backlash in Buffalo saved them. How can you gloss over this?

It's an unbelievable argument you're making, you want Toronto to do what Kevin Lowe has done. He lost his job with his own team! And you just compared JFJ with Burke's record. Want to look at Edmonton's record the past 3 years?