Shots against and why this issue is not addressed in the prompt matter?

[SENATOR]

The start of this seasons reminds everyone the last season fiasco and then the desperate drive to make the playoffs.
The question comes to mind why we have this déjà vu again?
Last season was saved simply by cutting shots and chances against by creating a puck possession, energy kids line.
I do not understand, why the coach is not working to reduce shots against? What measures are taken? I do not see the lines juggling.
The lines which are created in the preseason camp are not reducing shots against and do not generate enough offensive zone time.
Defense needs fine tuning too. The third pair is struggling and needs someone who can generate the first pass and not the clearing attempt.
What is going on?

Click to read more...

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Only thing I worry about is the quality of shots against, not the quantity.

 

[pageaus tooth]

Cause for concern, yes. Rough start to the years, yes and no. The team is 3-2 and although the games have not been in our favour we are where we should be. Difficult to make system changes when 4 of 5 are on the road with two sets of back to backs.

 

[starling]

Only thing I worry about is the quality of shots against, not the quantity.

Yeah, about that. We are the worst in the league in Scoring Chance %, where scoring chance is defined as a high quality shot attempt. Having played against 3 weak teams.
That's MacLean all over again. Brutal.

 

[jbeck5]

It is early but I'm a bit worried. For the amount of talk about being a possession team the last 3 years, we've really sucked at possession. Part of the problem is our skilled guys aren't that good with the puck. Turris,stone, and hoffman are the only forwards that can actually hold on to the puck, make nice passes, give and gos, etc. Our other skilled players,like zibanejad,Ryan, michalek, etc can make a nice pass or a nice shot here or there but they absolutely suck at holding onto the puck and making plays. 90% of the time they're battling for the puck or chasing it. Why can't they play keepaway here and there like the top line? Why can't they sustain pressure in the offensive zone creating chances consistently? That's our issue. That and aside from karlsson we have no possession player on the back end. Ceci is on his way but very slowly. Methot is almost useless in the offensive zone. Cowen has played solid defensively but I don't expect any offense from him. Weircioch is too slow that someone is on him right away or he's chasing the puck. Aside from karlsson, no one from the back end can provide consistent possession for 200ft.

When you only have 4 players capable of playing a possession game, you can't try to play a possession game.

I'm hoping pageau can play a possession game like he's shown flashes of.

 

[Viletho]

I would be more interested in knowing how our offensive zone puck possesion look compare to our opponent.

 

[Caeldan]

I'm going to say that the eye test for me to the games we've played... we have sections of play where we absolutely dominate possession but can't generate real shots out of them. And then the other team comes back and gets a few shots off because of a defensive breakdown coming back.

 

[PeterSidorkiewicz]

Yeah, about that. We are the worst in the league in Scoring Chance %, where scoring chance is defined as a high quality shot attempt. Having played against 3 weak teams.
That's MacLean all over again. Brutal.

So if it's Maclean all over again would you consider it a roster problem or a coaching problem? This is the NHL, so to me it's a roster problem. The coaching isn't going to change these problems, maybe adapt a system ie trap to cover the problem, but not fundamentally change our problem.

 

[Vesa Awesaka]

Kid line did not help the shots against go down. Juggling lines in the past just made things worse. Maclean created both the kid line and juggled lines a lot. We simply lack the talent required to cut shots down. Neil and smith should be defencive specialists that play physical but they are both below average. Cowen, Boro, Ceci and weir and simply not quality players at deterring shots at this point in time. Much of our team is still young and needs to develop better defensive aspects to their games

 

[Vesa Awesaka]

We lack the talent. Two established top 4 dmen. 3 established checkers. Still we have a lot of young talent that has great offensive ability and will grow. One thing Cameron was able to fix was the breakout and into the breakout is still usually okay. The forwards suppor the d well. In the defensive zone there's a lot of running around or players simply not being able to keep up.

 

[J0sh]

It is early but I'm a bit worried. For the amount of talk about being a possession team the last 3 years, we've really sucked at possession. Part of the problem is our skilled guys aren't that good with the puck. Turris,stone, and hoffman are the only forwards that can actually hold on to the puck, make nice passes, give and gos, etc. Our other skilled players,like zibanejad,Ryan, michalek, etc can make a nice pass or a nice shot here or there but they absolutely suck at holding onto the puck and making plays. 90% of the time they're battling for the puck or chasing it. Why can't they play keepaway here and there like the top line? Why can't they sustain pressure in the offensive zone creating chances consistently? That's our issue. That and aside from karlsson we have no possession player on the back end. Ceci is on his way but very slowly. Methot is almost useless in the offensive zone. Cowen has played solid defensively but I don't expect any offense from him. Weircioch is too slow that someone is on him right away or he's chasing the puck. Aside from karlsson, no one from the back end can provide consistent possession for 200ft.

When you only have 4 players capable of playing a possession game, you can't try to play a possession game.

I'm hoping pageau can play a possession game like he's shown flashes of.

I think our players are capable, but I do agree that this is the problem. Advanced stats don't lie, We rely on Karlsson way too much and it's about time to start up some more possession oriented 1v1 practice drills. I love Dave Cameron, But this is something he needs to address.

 

[jbeck5]

We lack the talent. Two established top 4 dmen. 3 established checkers. Still we have a lot of young talent that has great offensive ability and will grow. One thing Cameron was able to fix was the breakout and into the breakout is still usually okay. The forwards suppor the d well. In the defensive zone there's a lot of running around or players simply not being able to keep up.

I'm not that worried about our breakout or neutral zone play. We are generally good at pushing the puck forward. My biggest concern is once we get into the offensive zone. We've got our top line that is making plays and creating chances. no problem there. it's lines 2-4 that just grind and lose puck battles. They dump it in and chase and lose most puck battles.

Where are our ryan-zibanejad give and gos? Why aren't they getting open and getting shots off like the first line? why can't they make passes and handle passes?

We essentially have 1 scoring line, and 3 lines playing like a 4th line grinding line.

My concern,which is tied with puck possession,is what is managements plan the last few years. Our play hasn't improved in the last few years. i'm worried that what we discussed a few years ago, that we might be a bubble team forever, might come true. Are we trying to become a contender or are we going to hope to make the playoffs every year and hope for the best. I guess what i'm getting at is i wish management gave fans more of an idea of their direction and projections. Where are we lacking and what are we going to do to fix this.

Having 2 top 4 Ds is a struggle we've had for years. Saying "i hope cowen or wiercioch fixes it soon" is dandy and all...but if they don't, we wasted several years.

I wish we were more proactive like tampa. Plan A)Go out and get a top 4 D, and than if your Plan B in cowen develops into 1 down the road, then you can trade away a top 4 D to make room.

I'd rather fill the spots, then when our prospects make a case for themselves you can make room higher in the lineup by trading away players from a position of strength. But that would take being a cap team.

 

[Scrub*]

Same thing happened last year right?

 

[God Says No]

Same thing happened last year right?

Yip, until we got hit with injuries to Phillips, Neil and Smith.

 

[Vesa Awesaka]

With holding the ozone I find our d aren't very aggressive when it comes to pinching maybe due to lack of mobility

 

[Othello*]

Fix our immobile/bad defensive core and scratch Neil and Smith

 

[PaGEEsBack]

It's the same uninspired play that got us an alright start last year with a huge dip just a couple of months into the season. It's not for a lack of talent, absolutely not a 'just not good enough' situation; just a bunch of guys who can do a lot better but (I guess) just plain choose not to. Whether it's conditioning or heart - it is there, it does exist; it just needs to be 'uncovered' so to say. Much like it was mid-way through last season.

I have no doubt that the team we were watching the last half of last season is still there and ready to 'pop' - just need the right frame of mind; the right style of play.

May seem like some cryptic message from Cameron 'just go through pucks' but it's really all there is to it. Own the play, own the game. Right now we're sitting back and letting the opposition dictate the play - we're always caught playing the other guy's game. How are we going to win like that?

Set the pace, set the tone, control the play - go through the goddamn puck.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

I think the biggest problem is speed if you notice we are regularly second to the puck in our own zone... which facilitates the opposing cycle.

 

[Micklebot]

Fix our immobile/bad defensive core and scratch Neil and Smith

If our D copre is the problem, why are Karlsson and Methot struggling to win the shot/possession battle?

Imo, lines 2 and 4 are the issue. Ryan and Zibanejad are struggling from a shot generation and repression perspective, Niel/Smith/Chiasson just aren't very good.

 

[Othello*]

If our D copre is the problem, why are Karlsson and Methot struggling to win the shot/possession battle?

Imo, lines 2 and 4 are the issue. Ryan and Zibanejad are struggling from a shot generation and repression perspective, Niel/Smith/Chiasson just aren't very good.

My issues with Ryan are well documented on this board. I'm just hoping the second line plays to the level people on here think their capable of.

Other than the second line the second pairing and fourth line has been horrible. The bottom six can be fixed internally, but to fix that second pairing we'd have to squire a top 4 via trade.

 

[bert]

If our D copre is the problem, why are Karlsson and Methot struggling to win the shot/possession battle?

Imo, lines 2 and 4 are the issue. Ryan and Zibanejad are struggling from a shot generation and repression perspective, Niel/Smith/Chiasson just aren't very good.

Honestly most of the team looks out of shape compared to the competition. Not rotating players in and out during back to backs is also unbelievable in my opinion.

Cameron has gotten away from what made him a good coach last year.

 

[Erik Alfredsson]

It's not a concern because its early.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

It's not a concern because its early.

This is not early

This has been a problem for the last three seasons

 

[Micklebot]

My issues with Ryan are well documented on this board. I'm just hoping the second line plays to the level people on here think their capable of.

Other than the second line the second pairing and fourth line has been horrible. The bottom six can be fixed internally, but to fix that second pairing we'd have to squire a top 4 via trade.

Not really answering the question:

If the 2nd pair, 2nd line and fourth line are the reason we've been outshot, how come Karlsson has a 43% CF and Methot 42% when on the ice with Turris? Why do both allow roughly 60 shot attempts per 60 when deployed with our top line center?

Something doesn't add up; if the players that you believe aren't the cause of the problem are having the same problem when together as the guys you think are the problem, maybe there is more to it than just a bad second pair, or 4th line. You can't blame Neil, Smith, Ryan, or Wiercioch for high shots against when they aren't even on the ice.

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

I would be more interested in knowing how our offensive zone puck possesion look compare to our opponent.

Yup.

Fix our immobile/bad defensive core and scratch Neil and Smith

Yup yup.