Online Series: Shogun (D+ and FX Feb 2024)

[Hivemind]

Can someone explain the ending of this episode to me like I’m 5?

Spoiler

from Hiromatsus suicide after I got confused. Was this Toranags plan all along?

Spoiler

His son's death bought him a "customary" 49 day grieving period, and allowed him to return to his base of operations in Edo. With that time and now around his supporters, he can regroup.

However, he still needs to signal to Ishido and the others in Osaka that he is honoring his surrender (demanding all his vassals sign the surrender notice), and make it seem like his surrender is legitimate. He spoke loudly to the Catholic priest about this, baiting him into carrying his message of defeat and surrender to Osaka. From his interaction with the priest, Hiromatsu was able to deduce enough about his plan to realize that he needed to help provide evidence that Toronaga was serious about his surrender, and followed thru with the seppuku to essentially give "evidence" that Toronaga's intent to surrender was legitimate. He did it so Osaka would truly view Toronaga as defeated.

Yanushige had been trying to play both sides from the start, so Toronaga knew that he would take this opportunity to align with Blackthorn and try to live. Based on that, Toronaga then sent Mariko to continue translating for Blackthorn, and to help manipulate events to his will further.

 

[NyQuil]

Sorry that this is going to launch me off on a bit of a tangent, but you're missing the implicit part of the excitement of those people.

They aren't really meaning "They did all their own stunts with no CGI!!!" - what they're really meaning is that "They did tremendous amounts of in-camera stunts and practical effects and managed to create an end-result that is spectacle-worthy and surpasses other major budget contemporary films." They don't say that bolded part out loud, but it's the implicit message that's coded into their excitement.

What they mean is Fury Road has tons of effects scenes, but they look like this:


Instead of this:


Road Warrior isn't bad, I love me Road Warrior. But it's obviously not nearly on par with Fury Road when it comes to visual spectacle and special effects.

Beyond that, Mad Max: Fury Road does use CGI. It uses TONS of CGI. So did Barbie, Oppenheimer, The Dark Knight trilogy, 1917, Top Gun Maverick, etc etc etc. There's a reason these movies have hundreds of CGI credits, and you can find plenty of VFX reels from the various studios involved in working on them.
Lest you think this film really did have stunt drivers and camera crews driving thru gigantic lightning dust tornadoes.

Fury Road is a masterpiece, because its a visual spectacle and that spectacle directly relates to the characters, their motivations, and the narrative of the film. It's a tremendous accomplishment, not merely because of practical effects and stunts, but because of those stunts and effects created something that was greater than the sum of its parts.

Yeah, not a masterpiece in my book.

I actually prefer Road Warrior. I find the gritty feel fits the setting better than sweeping vistas and visuals.

There is a reason for them being isolated from Blackthorne which I think will become obvious in an upcoming episode.

So, in the book, it’s a bit more explicit but his reunion with all of them (not just one guy) emphasizes how much he’s changed and how little he has in common with his old crew.

Blackthorne bathes regularly now and finds their manners and physical hygiene repulsive.

Anyway, terrific work from Hiroyuki Saneda in this episode. A lot of the emotion he displays is through facial expressions and subtle eye contact.

 

[Hivemind]

Yeah, not a masterpiece in my book.

Well, everyone has their right to be wrong.

 

[Osprey]

That episode might get Sanada an Emmy nomination. I hope so, and that the series gets a lot more nominations than just that.

 

[HanSolo]

That episode might get Sanada an Emmy nomination. I hope so, and that the series gets a lot more nominations than just that.

I was thinking the same but I feel like I say that a lot and am wrong half the time

 

[HanSolo]

Did a catch up run of the last three episodes with my brother. Obviously Hiroyuki Sanada has been crushing it with the standout performance in episode 8 but Anna Sawai has been very good as Mariko too.

 

[Jovavic]

Hilarious that the new church is going to have the new tea house as neighbors

 

[NyQuil]

Hilarious that the new church is going to have the new tea house as neighbors

Toranaga has a sense of humour.

 

[Jack Straw]

Such a great show. Yabushige is my favorite character and the actor does an amazing job. I looked him up and turns out he played Hogun in the Thor films.

 

[Byron Bitz]

Anyone else recognize the star of Shogun from one of the most iconic scenes in horror movie history?

 

[The Macho King]

Anyone else recognize the star of Shogun from one of the most iconic scenes in horror movie history?

I watched Sunshine for the first time the day before I watched the first episode of Shogun, so I had a real Leo pointing at TV moment.

 

[Byron Bitz]

I watched Sunshine for the first time the day before I watched the first episode of Shogun, so I had a real Leo pointing at TV moment.

He’s also in The Last Samurai, pretty dope actor

 

[HanSolo]

He’s also in The Last Samurai, pretty dope actor

And Avengers Endgame, and Westworld season 2, and two John Wick movies, and Bullet Train, and Lost, and Rush Hour 1 and 3, and a few admittedly not amazing American movies. Point is dude's been around for a while.

 

[Byron Bitz]

And Avengers Endgame, and Westworld season 2, and two John Wick movies, and Bullet Train, and Lost, and Rush Hour 1 and 3, and a few admittedly not amazing American movies. Point is dude's been around for a while.

To me hel always be the dude who got killed by the girl coming out of the tv

 

[HanSolo]

Well. I watched episode 9.

What a performance by Anna Sawai. All I'll say until people have caught up.

 

[hotcabbagesoup]

Anna Sawai, I'm going to miss you, yes I know she could be in flashbacks, which will be fine too. But in Monarch: Legacy of Monsters, Anna you were so unlikeable.

 

[Osprey]

Spoiler

Well, that was sad. I was afraid that she'd meet a tragic end, but I didn't expect it to happen in this episode. I'm relieved that she didn't become a warrior, though. I think that most writers would've gone that route, but these writers kept things realistic while also making her arguably the strongest character in the show because she had convictions, was restrained and didn't back down. Many writers these days seem to think that strong females are women who do everything physical that men do and are non-feminine, ignoring that women can be mentally strong, instead, and still feminine. Mariko was both and carried this episode with Toranaga completely absent.

I didn't realize that Anna Sawai was also in Monarch: Legacy of Monsters. I gave up on that show after less than two episodes partly because her character was unlikable and unrealistic, the opposite of Mariko. I suppose that that proves that you can have the same actress but very different results because of very different writers.

 

[x Tame Impala]

Spoiler

Well, that was sad. I'm relieved that Mariko didn't become a warrior, Mulan style, like I feared, though. The writers resisted the urge that I suspect that most writers wouldn't have and kept things realistic while also making her arguably the strongest character in the show. She was strong because she had convictions, kept her emotions in check and didn't back down. Most writers these days seem to think that strong females are ones that are every bit as physically capable as men, as well as non-feminine, and ignore that women can be mentally strong, instead, and still feminine. Mariko was both and such a good character. In fact, she carried the episode with Toranaga completely absent.

I didn't realize that Sawai was also in Monarch: Legacy of Monsters. I gave up on that show after less than two episodes partly because her character was unlikable and unrealistic, the opposite of Mariko. I suppose that that proves that you can have the same actress but very different results due to very different writers.

Spoiler

Exactly. Not that it was good to see her fail or anything but there was a second there where I was wondering if she was about to cut her way through a dozen royal guards as a 5'1" 100lb woman.

She played an excellent character and did a fantastic job in this show. The scene at sunset was a great sendoff for her and Blackthorne's relationship.

Not for any particular character but generally throughout the show, it's been a real culture-shock to see how they value life, prioritizing honor and duty over all else. Noble in a sense, jarring and naive in another. The dichotomy between Blackthorne and the Japanese characters in the show has been really great in this regard.

 

[sdf]

I hope it's not so stupid like when they try to do something on the subje of Russia

 

[Knave]

Spoiler

I wonder how Blackthorne will communicate now. The last couple of episodes have tried to set him up as having enough to get by but that's a far cry from being fluent and having Mariko or someone to let him know what to do and translate more complex concepts to Toronaga

 

[HanSolo]

Spoiler

I wonder how Blackthorne will communicate now. The last couple of episodes have tried to set him up as having enough to get by but that's a far cry from being fluent and having Mariko or someone to let him know what to do and translate more complex concepts to Toronaga

Spoiler

Probably a fair chance the priest gets roped in for that. My bigger question is how in the hell is Blackthorne going to steer away from holding Toranaga responsible by proxy for Mariko's death? He very clearly had an issue with it before she passed. I mean, sure the whole thing went down as a result of Ishido and Yabushige's plotting (not sure how Blackthorne is supposed to find out about Yabushige's role but that's a different issue), but as far as Blackthorne is concerned Mariko was a sacrificial pawn in Toranaga's power play. As far as he's concerned, he can't really fathom what moral benefit there is to Toranaga's ascension to ruler of Japan to make Mariko's death a necessary sacrifice in Blackthorne's eyes. To put it simpler, I don't see how Blackthorne gets back in the fold as a willing ally of Toranaga. Maybe he honors Mariko's memory by emulating her principles and remaining loyal but I'd imagine it would be begrudgingly.

 

[Hivemind]

Spoiler

Probably a fair chance the priest gets roped in for that. My bigger question is how in the hell is Blackthorne going to steer away from holding Toranaga responsible by proxy for Mariko's death? He very clearly had an issue with it before she passed. I mean, sure the whole thing went down as a result of Ishido and Yabushige's plotting (not sure how Blackthorne is supposed to find out about Yabushige's role but that's a different issue), but as far as Blackthorne is concerned Mariko was a sacrificial pawn in Toranaga's power play. As far as he's concerned, he can't really fathom what moral benefit there is to Toranaga's ascension to ruler of Japan to make Mariko's death a necessary sacrifice in Blackthorne's eyes. To put it simpler, I don't see how Blackthorne gets back in the fold as a willing ally of Toranaga. Maybe he honors Mariko's memory by emulating her principles and remaining loyal but I'd imagine it would be begrudgingly.

Spoiler

Why are you assuming that Blackthorne will reconcile with Toranaga and remain loyal?

 

[HanSolo]

Spoiler

Why are you assuming that Blackthorne will reconcile with Toranaga and remain loyal?

Spoiler

I don't see Blackthorne's purpose in the Finale and show as a whole if he doesn't. I can't see him siding with Ishido after all this. Aside from being equally responsible by proxy for Mariko's death, it's a simple matter of uncertainty as to whether or not Ishido would kill him. And I don't think a third option of simply fleeing Japan would work. They made a point to show that he has no possibility of reconciliation with his crew so he can't just steal and sail his ship all by himself.

I'm the end I'm just making deductions and speculating. I haven't read the novel or watched the previous adaptation. Though I intend to when it's all over. I just feel like there's a Chekov's gun with the cannons. Yabushige was ordered to deliver them to Ishido and he obviously hasn't. By inference, that would mean Toranaga will use them in the Finale and who's left to command a cannon regiment but Blackthorne?

 

[beowulf]

Pretty insane that they are using live katanas for some scenes.

 

[John Price]