News Article: Shero fired, Fitz interim GM part II

[NJDevs26]

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[MartyOwns]

Because trades have consequences. If he moves Vats, Palms, Zacha, Wood and whoever else for picks at the deadline, this team isn't making the playoffs for a LONG TIME.

Giving Ray one more TDL - not even another whole year - could potentially have set the organization back three years. That's the only logic I can find for why ownership decides they have to fire Shero NOW. Otherwise you have to believe they made the move with no logic in mind.

if that’s true, what changed between then (when they seemingly and admittedly had full confidence in him) and now? that’s the question i really need an answer to. the TDL isn’t a surprise, it’s on everyone’s calendar. why fire him now?

 

[Tretyak 20]

...in other words, "no, Ray, you aren't trading a bunch of players for more draft picks".

 

[Spoiled Bratt]

And now we are citing Burnside and Politi to defend arguments - two hacks that this board historically (and rightfully) never took seriously before.

I think the biggest manifestation of a losing culture has been with our fans. Yikes.

We’re in a losing culture because Shero was put behind the 8-ball and asked to pull a miracle.

He’s done wonders with what he had and he, or whoever else that will be taking the role of our GM, will need time.

I just don’t understand how someone can look at what Ray had to work with and what we have now and say with a straight face that we weren’t heading in the right direction.

 

[Lou is God]

Because trades have consequences. If he moves Vats, Palms, Zacha, Wood and whoever else for picks at the deadline, this team isn't making the playoffs for a LONG TIME.

Giving Ray one more TDL - not even another whole year - could potentially have set the organization back three years. That's the only logic I can find for why ownership decides they have to fire Shero NOW. Otherwise you have to believe they made the move with no logic in mind.

One, you're speculating a whole lot on who he might trade, and two, trade those four and we wouldn't make the playoffs for a LONG TIME? Really? They're all good players, but they're nothing that can't be replaced.

 

[Spoiled Bratt]

...in other words, "no, Ray, you aren't trading a bunch of players for more draft picks".

Ray has added talent with just that... draft picks.

If we’re losing Vatanen for free, I want something in return.

 

[Lou is God]

- signed Will Butcher
- tried to sign Kevin Shattenkirk
- traded for Mirco Mueller
- traded for Sami Vatanen
- drafted Ty Smith in the 1st round
- traded for PK Subban
- drafted defense heavy during the 2019 draft
- acquired Kevin Bahl as one of the centerpieces of the Hall trade

did he really "neglect" it?

@Zajacs Bowl Cut - would "mishandle" work for you? Are you fine with the unit at present?

 

[AfroThunder396]

Even if Ray wanted to sign Vatanen, the point becomes moot if Vatanen himself doesn't want to stay. Which is completely reasonable given that he's having a baller year and might want to cash in, or he wants to GTFO if he doesn't think the team can compete.

It's also possible that as I said earlier, he's not interested in giving big money/term to a guy who missed 30 games due to concussion last year. Which is totally fair.

Either way, firing a guy because of that is still unreasonable. I get that we don't have a ton of info but the amount of speculation and conclusion-jumping going on here is crazy.

 

[OmNomNom]

i bet you this has nothing to do with trading player X at all or not. i'm gonna guess it had to do with projecting forward and getting certain assets

 

[Tretyak 20]

if that’s true, what changed between then (when they seemingly and admittedly had full confidence in him) and now? that’s the question i really need an answer to. the TDL isn’t a surprise, it’s on everyone’s calendar. why fire him now?

Owners probably don't follow things much more than we do. They let the GM run the show without interference unless something really concerns them. So now they hear the same rumors we hear. Wood on the block? Odd, but no big deal. Zacha being shopped? Ok, but he isn't a major problem. Vats never contacted about an extension? WTF? our best D, 28 years old? Palms being shopped??? "Ray, we'd like to speak with you asap".

So they call a face-to-face with Shero, and he confirms his plan to blow up the roster and rebuild for another 2-3 years.

End result? They "mutually part ways".

 

[Tretyak 20]

One, you're speculating a whole lot on who he might trade, and two, trade those four and we wouldn't make the playoffs for a LONG TIME? Really? They're all good players, but they're nothing that can't be replaced.

1). Replaced with who, exactly?

2). Everyone is speculating right now.

 

[MichaelJ]

This is again, the idea that you need the "perfect team" to win Cups. Truth is you don't, and if you keep trading everything hoping to draft 5 superstar players at key positions simultaneously, you'll never do it and just keep losing infinitely.

Wrong take, bad assumptions.

I never said anything about continually hoping to draft top 5 superstar players at any positions, stop projecting your hyperbole on what I said. I also never said anything about nor even alluded to the need for ‘the perfect team’, a phrase so ambiguous it barely merits acknowledging.

The team needs to be well constructed, from top to bottom. Ideally it’s constructed in a way where they’re contenders for a long stretch. The team as is is still a number of players away from that. The roster has potential but it’s still short on talent and acquiring that talent will cost.

 

[Mike27Devils]

Saying Shero did nothing for the defense is wrong. He traded for Vatanen and Subban and signed the coveted honey baker winning defenseman Will Butcher. It did seem like he was sort of in a continuous loop though of trading for players and then essentially getting comparable returns for them when their day with the devils expired like Johansson and Hall and maybe in the future palmieri, Gusev, vatanen, and Subban. He also had some bad trades giving up valuable assets for Beau Bennett, Mueller, and Grabner. I also didn’t like how Merrill was exposed for the draft and we then ended up trading that 2nd round pick for mueller which isn’t as good of a d man as Merrill. Overall he made good smart decisions and did a good job with the hand he was dealt but was spinning his tires a lot not getting any traction with trading for players to then essentially get similar returns for them a couple years down the line.

 

[MartyOwns]

Owners probably don't follow things much more than we do. They let the GM run the show without interference unless something really concerns them. So now they hear the same rumors we hear. Wood on the block? Odd, but no big deal. Zacha being shopped? Ok, but he isn't a major problem. Vats never contacted about an extension? WTF? our best D, 28 years old? Palms being shopped??? "Ray, we'd like to speak with you asap".

So they call a face-to-face with Shero, and he confirms his plan to blow up the roster and rebuild for another 2-3 years.

End result? They "mutually part ways".

in this scenario, our owners heard some rumors and sacked the GM, literally the biggest change they can make to the team. even i don’t believe that’s what happened, and i think our owners are f***ing mongs

 

[Lou is God]

1). Replaced with who, exactly?

2). Everyone is speculating right now.

1) that's an open end question and is near impossible to answer at the present time

2) some more than others, some ridiculously more

 

[JimEIV]

Part 2 -. The yup still fired edition

 

[JimEIV]

We’re in a losing culture because Shero was put behind the 8-ball and asked to pull a miracle.

He’s done wonders with what he had and he, or whoever else that will be taking the role of our GM, will need time.

I just don’t understand how someone can look at what Ray had to work with and what we have now and say with a straight face that we weren’t heading in the right direction.

You understand that is precisely what the owners just did right?

The same owners who've made billions putting together organizations in various sectors...those exact owners with a straight face I might add.

 

[longislanddevil]

Based on Harris’ comments about winning, I can only surmise ownership was not on board with trading more assets (Palmieri, Vats, etc) for draft picks and didn’t want to keep Ray around to potentially execute on this and set off “rebuild 2.0.” We can debate whether the aforementioned players are worth the $ they will command but it certainly feels like “the dog chasing his tail” if that was Ray’s plan: pull off some shrewd trades to acquire the talent and then trade them away for picks to start over yet again. The fact that he had not engaged Vats in contract discussions leads me to believe this was at least partially the case. I read somewhere late yesterday that both sides now want to (and that Vats has wanted to extend) talk deal. It feels like we’ve been going circles for quite some time and that Ray had no contingency plan for his off-season moves not panning out.

There has been speculation that the ownership group was not happy with how the Hall situation was handled. They viewed him as a cornerstone piece of the team just a year or two ago so who knows...maybe they weren’t in agreement on Hall or the return we received for Hall. I can’t envision they are pleased to be on the hook for three years of Subban at 9 AAV, with the player looking mostly washed and the team in such disarray. As others have mentioned, it may have been Shero firing Hynes at the ownership’s decree- leading to increased loss in confidence of Ray. I’ve been a Shero supporter over the years but his reticence to fire Hynes may have ultimately been his undoing. He did not learn from the mistakes he made in Pittsburgh in that regard. Coupled with the fact the team is now 8-4-2 in its last 14, it beckons the question...could the season have been saved if Hynes was fired weeks sooner?

With all of this said, I’ve actually been a Shero supporter (up until how the Hynes situation was handled) and I feel “meh” about all this. Only time shall tell...at least Fitz is highly regarded so that makes me feel a bit better that he is competent...at least for the short term.

 

[BurntToast]

I think people have bipolarism. When Shero waited to fire Hynes, it seem everyone was starting to turn on him. Calling for his head. Additionally, he didn’t handle the Hall situation well. It sounded like owership and Shero didn’t see eye to eye but at least they gave him a chance to pitch his position. Like it or not Shero had a bad year and was trending down. I don’t see a cynical ownership or any conspiracies. It seems to me they are committed and they genuinely want the Devil’s to succeed.

 

[guitarguyvic]

have those improvements translated to nhl wins yet? no, because the goaltending has been historically awful, our coach wasn’t great, and most importantly prospects take time to develop.

The GM is ultimately responsible for all those things. And yes that includes prospect development - many of our prospects and graduated players have stagnated the last couple of years with no real progress.

You guys want to give Ray this huge pat on the back for drafting decently and not giving out big contracts to older players - that's literally the bare minimum expectation of a rebuilding GM.

 

[Emperoreddy]

The team looks directionless with this move. The owners press conference was way too vague in explaining what the hell happened and where do they want the team to go from there.

Saying we are "committed to winning" is lip service. It doesn't mean anything. What kind of winning? Do they want to be an also-ran bubble team that plateaus out in the 2nd round on a lucky year with no real cup aspirations? Or are you willing to stomach some pain for a long term plan to build a proper contender like Tampa, Boston, Washington, Colorado?

It sounds like the former, and we could be in for a revolving door of GMs for the next 10 years. Because the last one was mandated to win now, so they sold young assets and hampered the team with bad contracts.

 

[MNDevilsfan]

Personally I think it can be true that overall he did an OK job and, whether you agree with it or not, the decision was probably justified.

The last six months have been really, really bad. You can slice and dice each individual decision however you want, but bottom line is he pushed all his chips in to try and win with Hall this season and it didn't work. When the team stumbled early, there was no plan to correct course and deal with the issues. As a result they waffled around for a few months until it was too late and started the teardown. Since there's been no (publicly communicated) plan for what comes next.

Shero has made enough good moves that I wouldn't have hated it if they decided to give him another kick at the can, but certainly can't blame the ownership group for souring on him after this last stretch. If you add in a difference of philosophy, pretty easy to see how now was as good of a time as any to make a break.

I just hope reports about wanting to win now aren't accurate. Bringing in some veteran GM to try and make this team into a playoff contender will lead to another half decade in the wilderness imo. I don't think a complete teardown is necessary, but building around Hischier/Hughes has to be the focus. Seems to me that mainly has to be through better drafting and (more importantly) development.

If you want to trade your way out of this mess, you probably just fired the best guy for that job.

 

[JimEIV]

The GM is ultimately responsible for all those things. And yes that includes prospect development - many of our prospects and graduated players have stagnated the last couple of years with no real progress.

You guys want to give Ray this huge pat on the back for drafting decently and not giving out big contracts to older players - that's literally the bare minimum expectation of a rebuilding GM.

I think that jury is still very much out on "drafting decently". Still a lot needs to come to fruition before you can even say decently..,there are essentially 3 guys in the line up that Ray drafted. 4 if you want to count Boqvist but I don't think he's anywhere close to proving he truly belongs... 2 of those 3 are #1 overalls....so aside from them there is Bratt. I'm not sure if I would consider that decent...at least not yet and without more progress and production.

 

[Emperoreddy]

There hasn't actually been a tear down though, and we still don't have evidence one was planned. Hall had to be traded. There is no proof Palms was being shopped.

 

[Billdo]

So my thinking on this is Shero wanted to move some pieces out and continue to build responsibly. The owners on the other hand might feel like we are/should be closer and are ready to win now. Probably just a differing of where the organization is out and an impatient ownership group. I do question why if this is the end result they let him move Hall so far ahead of the deadline.